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Hey all, just a quick question about arming kans, being a brand new player, I am trying to figure what the best loadout would be for my kan wall list.
However I am stuck between either running 2 squads of rokkits and one squad of grotzookas, or vice versa. I thought rokkits were the way to go, however I was talking to an accomplished Ork player in my FLGS, and he preffered all grotzookas, being because they have more killy potential, while still being able to take on some light armour.
What does dakka think?

My list for 1500 will contain a Mek with Shokk Attack Gun (for hilarity), as well as a decent number of lootas, followed up with some koptas with rokkits. Would this be enough "heavy" support, or will two squads of rokkit kans, be more beneficial and fill the gap?

Full-length ballgown covered in sequins.
Or, Grotzookas to take advantage of being just about the only thing in the army with BS3. I've heard. My brother is the Ork player, and we haven't done much 5E yet.

I think it pretty much depends on what your army needs more help against.
Use their weapons to fill that hole.
...that wasn't suggestive at all.

2 rokkit and one grotzooka serves amazingly for me.

Rokkits deal with mech, and grotzookas kill whats inside the mech.

OP:

All Rokkits. Rokkits, rokkits and more rokkits. Rokkits best take advantage of BS3. If you want to cause a crapton of wounds on something.....use those STR7 Lootas, even better than Grotzookas. This is a mechanized world we live in....Rokkits can deal with transports better than Grotzookas. When the marines spill out, rokkits can deal with them more effectively than Grotzookas. Grotzookas are good against horde armies....tyranid, ork, guard.

1. Tyranid: Most Tyranid players flavor MCs, and they mostly have 3+ armor saves. Rokkits wound on a 2+ and allow no armor save. Grotzookas wound on a 4+ and grant a 3+ armor save.

2. Orks: The only time Grotzookas are going to do you any good is against a green tide (rare to see competitively), and a kan wall....which will be a mirror match, and your grotzookas aren't going to make a dent in the orks getting 4+ cover from all the kans. But rokkits would take down kans. Rokkits would give you an answer to mech orks as well!

3. Guard: While Guard have the ability to put as many infantry models on the table as orks...its VERY rare to see a player play foot-slogging IG with the huge advantage they get with their vehicles. I'd say 95% of IG players are going to be playing mechanized IG. This *is* a mechanized edition, and rokkits will serve you better than Grotzookas against AV12.

Honestly, Rokkits across the board.

I favor Grotzookas in general. In a Kan wall with 9 Kans ( and 30 lootas) I run 6 Grotzookas and 3 Rockits. Things to consider:
You definitely need 3 Rockits because you will nevet meet a situation when you will need 9 Grotzookas. Rockits however stay effective vs vehicles.
Rockits are more expensive than Grotzookas. With my setup I have 30 points extra over a full Rockit setup which gets me 2 lootas or 5 boys

Grotzookas are better vs all infantry period (apart from single mode units). Mathamatikz vs MEQ:

1 Rocket: 3/6 to hit, 5/6 to wound = 0.41 wounds no save, unless in cover which makes it 0.20 wounds
1 Grotzooka: Here we have to make some assumptions. I will asume that the squad you are facing is a 5 man squad (minimum squad) and that with the template you can cover 3 models (not hard if they have been disembarked from a transport or cramed into cover). Now due to scatter you have a 2/6 chance to get 3 hits and a 4/6 chance of it scattering an avg of 4 inches. I will say only 0.5 hits as if it scatters towards the squad members it should still cover 2 if not probably nothing but I will calculate in favor of the rockit to prove my point. I continue: the above total 1.33 hits and the zooka fires twice so 2.66 hits, 5/6 to wound = 2.21 wounds 4/6 to save =0.73 wounds unsaved regardless of cover
The numbers remain the same for armor 4+ and get much better for the Grotzooka vs all other saves (other armor values, invunerable and cover). It also gets better the more models you can get under the template and because the mathamatikz don't always respond well to real game situations consider this: On the above example if you roll well the Rocket will only get 1 kill. If you roll well on the Grotzooka (two bangs on the scatter dice) you get 3,33 kills

The rocket does slightly better vs toughness 5 squads (but there are not many of those around) and gives you the option of tagging vehicles and MC however that's what my 3 squads of lootas are there for.

The allocation should now be determined by what you want them to do in your list. Vs infantry Grotzooka vs other targets Rockits

sn0zcumb3r, there were a *lot* of assumptions there.

1. Grotzookas are 18" range. I wouldn't presume they're going to get to fire at anything except for some vehicles coming your way.

2. Presuming you're going to get to cover 3 models....is a vast assumption. Once gamers progress beyond beginner tactics, they start deploying and moving models 2" apart, most often with the use of a GF9 tactical template. A safe assumption is that once you cross into range, you're going to get ONE model under the template before scatter, possibly two if they were careless. If we're talking about baby seals here, then it doesn't matter what his kans are equipped with, he should be clubbing them anyway.

OP: Check out the army list section and the batrep section and find yourself some kan-wall lists and the comments made on them - you'll probably find that most people favor rokkits for all the reasons I outlined in my first post.

You have boyz - mobs of 30 probably with a power claw in each - preferably shootas for me but alot of people prefer sluggaboys too - You really dont need any more anti-infantry - skip the grotzookas.

Take advantage of the BS3, you dont get alot of that. Pop some transports with rokkits instead of with power claws (and then getting countercharged)

As you can see, I suggest 9 rokkits.

Thank you for the replies, and the advice!
I think I will stick to my original plan and field 2 squads of rokkits and one squad of zookas. Reasons being that I dont feel my list will have to much troubles throwing out wounds on squishier models, and it seems that Orks have very few ways of dealing with heavier armor.
This is totally based off of what I have read of course....seeing as I still have yet to play a game....

What about kustom mega blastas? They are only 5 more points than rokkits and offer some ap 2. They can be used against armor but give the option of whittling down a terminator squad.

rutig3r wrote:Thank you for the replies, and the advice!
I think I will stick to my original plan and field 2 squads of rokkits and one squad of zookas. Reasons being that I dont feel my list will have to much troubles throwing out wounds on squishier models, and it seems that Orks have very few ways of dealing with heavier armor.
This is totally based off of what I have read of course....seeing as I still have yet to play a game....

Well, magnetize them for now. K&J Magnetics, and put on the magnets - it gives you a chance to switch around weaponry and wargear.

KMBs are never worth it. 5 points for AP2 just doesn't help enough. Most units you'll face don't have 2+ saves, and the few that do usually have a 3++ or 5++ invulnerable save, which vastly blunts the effectiveness of the AP2 anyhow. If KMBs had the melta rule, it'd be a different story.

Personally, I like nothing but Grotzookas. S6 is good enough to help crack open light transports like Rhinos, Trukks, Raiders, and the side armor on Chimeras. Blast templates are more likely to hit *something* and give you decent flexibility in where you're shooting to get maximum effect, especially when you have 2 attempts to get it right.

As for Orks not needing anti-infantry? Every model you kill with a Grotzooka before your boyz charge in is one more model's worth of attacks that aren't going before your boyz. That's more attacks for you, potentially a bigger win in combat, and fewer dead boyz on your side towards losing fearless and/or combat effectiveness.

That said, I can see the usefulness of Rokkit Kanz if you don't already pack enough anti-transport shooting elsewhere. If you aren't running lootas or rokkit-buggies, then Kanz are a fairly sturdy and cheap way to get semi-reliable S8 rokkit shots.

That said, I wouldn't mix Rokkits and 'zookas in the same unit. The difference in range and optimal targets means that you're often going to get less than the best usage out of one weapon or the other. 2 units with Zookas and 1 with Rokkits would be a better mix. That way the Rokkits can crack open a transport and then the 'zookas can drop templates on the troops that fell out.

Rokkits. Always rokkitz. Needs moar rokkitz.