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I've been following the thread about gay marriage, but didn't post anything in it, being more interested in seeing the ideas playing out. One thing I did see was the introduction of the slippery slope argument and other people saying some of the items mentioned would never really be allowed or happen in this country.
One thing that I've learned over the course of my life is to never say something will never happen.

The following are just some of the items are something most people growing up in the 60's never really believed they would see in their lifetime:

Gay marriage

a black president

3,000 people killed in a terrorist attack in the middle of one of our biggest cities

a space station with Americans and Russians working together

the collapse of the Soviet Union

I've learned that anything can happen and wonder what the world will be like for the younger Dakkites 40 years from now.

Ramble over.

I don't think the point was that there are certain things that will never happen in America. Rather, the point seemed to be that there is no reason to believe that the occurrence of thing X necessarily leads to the occurrence of thing Y. Or that the non-occurrence of thing X fully prevents the occurrence of thing Y.

Perhaps, Dogma, but we've both been around the block enough times to know to never discount the possibility of things happening. In my opinion, not many things happen spontaniously, but are always in connection with something else. Sometimes those connections can cause some pretty crazy turns and twist in events.

I don't say "That'll never happen". It'll never happen. (Well unless we're talking about something involving GW. But that's an entirely different boat )

I remember as close as the 90's, people were saying that we'd never -actually- build robots or computers that a person could converse with. 20 Years later, we've got internet chat-bots and robots that not only converse with you, but also look human while doing so. And let's not forget about Honda's huge progress with the Asimo project in such short time. And only 10 Years ago, scientists were saying that it was unlikely we'd ever find another planet that was similar to Earth. Just this month, NASA found something like 200. In one go. Note that "Earth-like" doesn't mean currently habitable. It simply means that it's likely to either naturally become so over several millennia, or else be capable of terraforming whenever humanity reaches such a technology level.

All in all, "It'll never happen" isn't something many people these days say, IMO. And those that do should really take into account the number of times we've proved ourselves wrong.

Good thing those dreamers and hippies from the 60's kept on working towards progressing society Damn shame that its taken 40 years since then to make some of that progress though, particularly when it comes to gay rights/marriage....maybe they were smoking too much dope in the process Can you imagine if you were growing up in the 1900's and lived through the Great Depression, Wright Brothers to Howard Hughes/ Pan Am Jets, two world wars with the second including a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, Elvis and the Beatles revolutionizing pop culture, short skirts, Civil Rights Movement, etc? Wowzers.

I also agree that the slippery slope argument is basically crap unless you can back up the chain and reinforce it with compelling evidence otherwise it'll be a fallacy.

@ Relapse:

Sure, but looking forward you can never be certain that something will happen because something else has already happened. You can be confident that something will happen because something else happened, and that confidence can be based on a rigorous proof of association between the actual event, and the possible event. But confidence is neither certainty, nor necessity, and that's what people often trip up on when presenting a case for what will happen; forcing their argument into a slippery slope fallacy (if not outright stating that's what they'rea rguing).

For example, when the Soviet Union fell it was not necessarily true that Americans and Russians would work together in the same space station. There were numerous events that occurred between the two that stand in the way of a direct causal link. Moreover, its entirely possible that, after sufficient detente, Americans and Russians would have worked together on the same space station even had the Soviet Union not collapsed.

It may be useful to recall that, if anything can happen, then anything can also fail to happen. Nothing happens spontaneously but, as you say, the chain of causality is often circuitous and heavily disputed.

Cane wrote: Can you imagine if you were growing up in the 1900's and lived through the Great Depression, Wright Brothers to Howard Hughes/ Pan Am Jets, two world wars with the second including a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, Elvis and the Beatles revolutionizing pop culture, short skirts, Civil Rights Movement, etc? Wowzers.

My late great grandmother did just that. Pretty incredible when you think about it.

There was a joint US-Soviet space mission in 1975.

Cane wrote:
Good thing those dreamers and hippies from the 60's kept on working towards progressing society Damn shame that its taken 40 years since then to make some of that progress though, particularly when it comes to gay rights/marriage....maybe they were smoking too much dope in the process Can you imagine if you were growing up in the 1900's and lived through the Great Depression, Wright Brothers to Howard Hughes/ Pan Am Jets, two world wars with the second including a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, Elvis and the Beatles revolutionizing pop culture, short skirts, Civil Rights Movement, etc? Wowzers.

I also agree that the slippery slope argument is basically crap unless you can back up the chain and reinforce it with compelling evidence otherwise it'll be a fallacy.

Definitely a lot of change happened in the 20th century. Anyone here with a handle on how much change there was in the last two centuries as compared to the previous 1000 years?

Relapse wrote:Definitely a lot of change happened in the 20th century. Anyone here with a handle on how much change there was in the last two centuries as compared to the previous 1000 years?

There's always change going on. It likes to shift depending on who, when, and where you're talking about, but there aren't really any periods in history where things aren't changing in some way somewhere. I would say that in the last 200 years we've seen technological advancement explode at a rate far more rapid than the thousand years prior. The advent of the communication age will likely continue to accelerate the rate at which ideas can be exchanged, as well as the volume of people capable of exchanging them. Ideas are the force behind why and how people change. The faster they spread the faster change goes. EDIT: It's a matter of scale. 1000 years ago, nations and groups of people that identified with each other were much smaller than they are today. Change always happens, but what we're seeing today is change on a bigger scale than in dark ages. Change likes to happen in spurts though. The Renaissance saw a lot of change compared to the previous middle ages. The Age of Rome saw a lot of change. It has it's ups and downs, and sometimes different things like to change at the same time or not at all.

Maybe instead of learning that things change, we should learn things change when we say they wont

I will never be a millionaire *waits*

You all know about the 2012 "Mayan Apocalypse" thing? The truth is that it's the end of the Galactic Year. On December 21st, 2012, our solar system will cross the Galactic Equator, an event that only happens something like every 20,000 years or something like that. In doing so we'll be leaving the age of Pisces and entering the age of Aquarius, which will supposedly be the age of spiritual awakening. You know, not to get 'mystical' or 'religious' on you all. Personally, I think it makes a lot more sense than "the world will end". There's a bit more to it than that but I'm not going to sidetrack the thread. My point is that if this is true, (I believe it is) then human society as a whole is going to start dramatically improving. (read: CHANGE)

Cane wrote:
Good thing those dreamers and hippies from the 60's kept on working towards progressing society Damn shame that its taken 40 years since then to make some of that progress though, particularly when it comes to gay rights/marriage....maybe they were smoking too much dope in the process

Yeah, it's not like there was anything else in their way!

I think some of the 'will never happen' events that have happened are proof of the commitment and endurance of the human spirit. For example the legalizaton of same sex marriages was a change brought about by people making it happen.

MasterDRD wrote:You all know about the 2012 "Mayan Apocalypse" thing? The truth is that it's the end of the Galactic Year. On December 21st, 2012, our solar system will cross the Galactic Equator, an event that only happens something like every 20,000 years or something like that. In doing so we'll be leaving the age of Pisces and entering the age of Aquarius, which will supposedly be the age of spiritual awakening. You know, not to get 'mystical' or 'religious' on you all. Personally, I think it makes a lot more sense than "the world will end". There's a bit more to it than that but I'm not going to sidetrack the thread. My point is that if this is true, (I believe it is) then human society as a whole is going to start dramatically improving. (read: CHANGE)

If you think you're Psychic, maybe you are?

Federal Studies are being conducted in your community, would you like to know more?

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

MasterDRD wrote:You all know about the 2012 "Mayan Apocalypse" thing? The truth is that it's the end of the Galactic Year. On December 21st, 2012, our solar system will cross the Galactic Equator, an event that only happens something like every 20,000 years or something like that. In doing so we'll be leaving the age of Pisces and entering the age of Aquarius, which will supposedly be the age of spiritual awakening. You know, not to get 'mystical' or 'religious' on you all. Personally, I think it makes a lot more sense than "the world will end". There's a bit more to it than that but I'm not going to sidetrack the thread. My point is that if this is true, (I believe it is) then human society as a whole is going to start dramatically improving. (read: CHANGE)

If you think you're Psychic, maybe you are?

Federal Studies are being conducted in your community, would you like to know more?

Well according to my beliefs, we're all 'psychic', it's just that some are more advanced spiritually; and just like muscles, you have to 'exercise' your 'psychic' abilities or they'll atrophy. By 'use' I don't necessarily mean 'throw fireballs' or anything like that, just doing meditations that involve manipulating energy, like affirmation.

Also if there are psychic studies going on in my community sign me up! Especially if it involves getting paid...

MasterDRD wrote:

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

MasterDRD wrote:You all know about the 2012 "Mayan Apocalypse" thing? The truth is that it's the end of the Galactic Year. On December 21st, 2012, our solar system will cross the Galactic Equator, an event that only happens something like every 20,000 years or something like that. In doing so we'll be leaving the age of Pisces and entering the age of Aquarius, which will supposedly be the age of spiritual awakening. You know, not to get 'mystical' or 'religious' on you all. Personally, I think it makes a lot more sense than "the world will end". There's a bit more to it than that but I'm not going to sidetrack the thread. My point is that if this is true, (I believe it is) then human society as a whole is going to start dramatically improving. (read: CHANGE)

If you think you're Psychic, maybe you are?

Federal Studies are being conducted in your community, would you like to know more?

Well according to my beliefs, we're all 'psychic', it's just that some are more advanced spiritually; and just like muscles, you have to 'exercise' your 'psychic' abilities or they'll atrophy. By 'use' I don't necessarily mean 'throw fireballs' or anything like that, just doing meditations that involve manipulating energy, like affirmation.

Also if there are psychic studies going on in my community sign me up! Especially if it involves getting paid...

You've totally missed the joke.

Change within reason is a fine thing, change for the sake of change is not.

Never say never thats my motto.

I didnt ever think i would drink enough beer to gak my bed, but here i am at the ripe old age of 30 and i gave the missus a real suprise when she woke up last Sunday morning.

And now I'll never look at you the same way ever again.

I for one never thought i'd live to see the day where I found I hated someone more than George Bush. I was proven wrong when David Cameron came on the seen.

David Cameron will save the nation from ruin, your obviously a class-warrior and dislike him merely because he is well off.

Its a very childish thing to dislike someone for, and im stunned how many grown men behave in this manner.

Bush was a war monger, Cameron want the lads home as soon as possible, and you dislike him more why?

Im genuinelly interested.

That's right
because he hails from a well to do background he is definitely the saviour of the human race.

It's nowt to do with class wars lad. Given the supposed benefits of the education he has had, Camoron is a tad on the dim side of the switch.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

MasterDRD wrote:

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

MasterDRD wrote:You all know about the 2012 "Mayan Apocalypse" thing? The truth is that it's the end of the Galactic Year. On December 21st, 2012, our solar system will cross the Galactic Equator, an event that only happens something like every 20,000 years or something like that. In doing so we'll be leaving the age of Pisces and entering the age of Aquarius, which will supposedly be the age of spiritual awakening. You know, not to get 'mystical' or 'religious' on you all. Personally, I think it makes a lot more sense than "the world will end". There's a bit more to it than that but I'm not going to sidetrack the thread. My point is that if this is true, (I believe it is) then human society as a whole is going to start dramatically improving. (read: CHANGE)

If you think you're Psychic, maybe you are?

Federal Studies are being conducted in your community, would you like to know more?

Well according to my beliefs, we're all 'psychic', it's just that some are more advanced spiritually; and just like muscles, you have to 'exercise' your 'psychic' abilities or they'll atrophy. By 'use' I don't necessarily mean 'throw fireballs' or anything like that, just doing meditations that involve manipulating energy, like affirmation.

Also if there are psychic studies going on in my community sign me up! Especially if it involves getting paid...

You've totally missed the joke.

Heh... I'm sure I did. But then, the only way to respond to a joke at your expense that you don't get is to keep going on in a serious tone in hopes of weirding them away...

Heh... I'm sure I did. But then, the only way to respond to a joke at your expense that you don't get is to keep going on in a serious tone in hopes of weirding them away...

It wasn't a joke on you or made to belittle you from what I got out of it. It was a reference to the Starship Troopers movie. It was just a funny quip. Why does everyone get so sensitive on these forums.

Change is god. Tzeentch

I wasn't sure I would ever see a black president, never thought corn fed rural America which is the vast majority of Americans vote for a black president. (glad to see I was wrong about the level of racism in America). I don't know always thought I would see a woman first.

Who could have possibly seen we would have a president with a name like Barack Hussein Obama? Hussein? Really? Now? I mean so many people change their names now when they enter the public spotlight. Not really impressed with the guy, but its nice to see that the majority of voting America can look past insignificant issues like race and foreign sounding names. Something I think not too long ago would have seamed unimaginable.

The only thing I think you can never count on seeing is world peace. Is that even possible? Could be nice though! Well here's to hopefully being wrong again.
(although conflict is a very motivating factor, and in a sense good for humanity. Look at all the technology that conflict brings. Would we even have jets if it wasn't for conflict? It would be nice if we could motivate ourselves without it. Plus it keeps the population under control, could you imagine how many people would be in America alone without the civil war? I'll stop now, sorry. So many interesting points)

ghosty wrote:And now I'll never look at you the same way ever again.

I for one never thought i'd live to see the day where I found I hated someone more than George Bush. I was proven wrong when David Cameron came on the seen.

If you hated George Bush more than anyone you've led a sheltered life I can only dream of. You've obcioualy never been to the DPS.

If you hated George Bush more than anyone you've led a sheltered life I can only dream of. You've obcioualy never been to the DPS.

Or the DMV! (Sorry not sure what the DPS is and I don't think its what the boxes were telling me)

offense to anyone who works at the Department of Motor Vehicles

Andrew1975 wrote:

If you hated George Bush more than anyone you've led a sheltered life I can only dream of. You've obcioualy never been to the DPS.

Or the DMV! (Sorry not sure what the DPS is and I don't think its what the boxes were telling me)

offense to anyone who works at the Department of Motor Vehicles

We're talking the same horror show my man.

We're talking the same horror show my man.

That's good I didn't really think you were talking about Drop Pods, Dragon Princes, or Daemon Princes. Stupid drop down.

Oddly though, some do make sense.

What the hell does DPS stand for anyway? I can't even think how that translates into DMV.

Relapse wrote:I've been following the thread about gay marriage, but didn't post anything in it, being more interested in seeing the ideas playing out. One thing I did see was the introduction of the slippery slope argument and other people saying some of the items mentioned would never really be allowed or happen in this country.
One thing that I've learned over the course of my life is to never say something will never happen.

The following are just some of the items are something most people growing up in the 60's never really believed they would see in their lifetime:

Gay marriage

a black president

3,000 people killed in a terrorist attack in the middle of one of our biggest cities

a space station with Americans and Russians working together

the collapse of the Soviet Union

I've learned that anything can happen and wonder what the world will be like for the younger Dakkites 40 years from now.

Ramble over.

Cell phones will be implanted computer aids with all around functionality and afghanistan will be a poor shithole with sporadic violence.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:If you think you're Psychic, maybe you are?

Federal Studies are being conducted in your community, would you like to know more?

MasterDRD wrote:

Heh... I'm sure I did. But then, the only way to respond to a joke at your expense that you don't get is to keep going on in a serious tone in hopes of weirding them away...

Yeah, you've never watched Starship Troopers. I'm now wierded out.