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So.. all i know of Warmachine.. is some of the models i have seen.


the questions.


1: What is the average point size of games played ? Along with Min point size, and max point size that is usually played.


2: Saying that, what is the cost of the armies ? $$$, i know some armies always cost alot more then others in 40k, but i was wondering what the general amount would be as a estimant. The high side ? Not really concerned with how cheap i can make an army, but more so looking at whats the most it could cost me.

Ill probly think of more.. but thats it for now.

I normally play 35 points. That is a nice size in which you have plenty of choiche, but still have some choosing to do. (you can't take almost everything you want...)

Moneywise it depends if you use a FLGS, or a online retailer. You should be able to get a normal armie of 1 heavy, 2 lights and a few units and solo's for about 100 to 150 Euros, but as you said YMMV...

Anyway, Welcome to the Iron kingdoms and good luck picking a side...

Average point size is 35 or 50, depending on taste and your local meta. The official game sizes range from 15 points to absolutely gargantuan 300 point games with 6 Warcasters per side.

Cost is pretty standard between factions (although Trolls pay a small premium for their complete reliance on medium based infantry). For a 50 point list, you can manage to make a reasonably competitive army for about $200-300, depending on what ratio of Warjacks to Infantry you're using, and whether you're relying on spammable meatshield infantry like Mechanithralls or Flameguard versus elite killing machines like the Exemplar or Bane Knights. On a per model basis, cost is somewhat cheaper than GW's vehicles and metal infantry.

Mainly getting tired of painting mass amounts of 40k.. and a side painting project is always nice.


How well is the army balances ?

Which ones seem stronger then others ?

I just dont want to make the same mistake i made 8 years ago with 40k.. spent $300-400 on an army for it to be one of the sub par ones and droped it for a new one



Of course.. model looks is going to come in greatly, just dont want stuck with a low tier army.

Stronger? That's a hard one.
Each caster is supposed to be 'broken' with what they can do. As for balance, I think PP focuses on that much more than GW, but that's only a guess-ish .

At the end of the day, the best gauge is going with what army suites your style (ranged, combat, magic, fast, controlling, etc) and/or which looks best for you.

The factions are exceptionally well balanced, so I'm afraid you won't be able to pick the most broken and win. Really, it depends on what you like the looks of, and what sort of strategies you enjoy. Exceptionally powerful infantry and warjacks that need little in the way of buffs? Go Khador. A complexly interlocking system of synergy and buffs? Menoth's probably a good choice. A glass jawed army with tremendous hitting power and swarms of the undead? Try Cryx. Ret does combined arms stupidly well, Cygnar has a bit of a hard-on for ranged combat, Circle does stupid things with terrain, Trolls are an unkillable brick of doom, Legion does dirty tricks rather well, and Skorne are great at interlocking buffs with a strongly disciplined feel.

Really, just pick an army you like the look of, give it a try (Vassal is good here, and your local press ganger will happily give you a demo).

Im in no way looking for the *broken i win army*.

I just will be starting with 4-5 other people and i dont want to be on the wrong end of the stick and lose intrest with setting a owish budget till i know more of the game.


But im happy to see that is not being the case here.


My Main intrests is Magic --> Controlling --> Fast

Then of course.. after knowing who does those best, i will be looking at looks as a main thing. (but of course thats something i can't ask here due to its a decision i need to make for myself)

Is the magic more buff magic ? Or Destruction types ?

That will be a deciding factor on that part of it.

I know most of these questions will be known by reading the books, but im trying to get a gernalized idea on things before i start spending $$.

Wife wont be happy if i spend $$ on one set then decide i liked the style of another more and spend more $$ :p.

Funny, even with Magic, Controlling, and Fast there are several that come to mind.

eHaley (Cygnar), Old Witch (Khador), p/e Denny (Cryx), Fiona(Mercs), Moshar (Circle), just to name a few.
Out of all those, pDenny is the one that comes in the starter boxes (great buy, esp. for the new ones).

eHaley is more about buffing, huge control area.
Old Witch has alot of utility spells, teleporting around, and can mix it up in combat.
pDenny is all about debuffing.
eDenny is about buffing movement options of your troops and debuffing the enemies ability to move.
Fiona has alot of upkeeps it's hard to hide from her spell slinging.
Moshar is pretty balanced with a teleport spell, obstructions and a great anti-infantry power.
Pretty generalized still.

But in general:

Cygnar: shooty and jack of all trades and lightning.
Khador: slow and tough and ice.
Cryx: glass hammers and corrosion.
Menoth: buff central and fire.
Mercs: all over the place in a good way.
Circle: Fast and terrain centric.
Skorne: melee beatstick but slow.
Legion: glass hammers and can't hide from them.
Trollbloods: very tough and bufftastic.
Minion: Newbies on the block.

I guess pick which ever has more stuff you like to look at.
Try and see if you like one of each Caster/Jack/unit/solo.
_______________

On a personal note, I recommend the Cryx Starter box.

PDenny is naturally fast and stealthy.
She focuses heavily on magic.
Debuffing is her game, but she also brings the attack powers.
Venom is like a chemical sprayer and kills infantry very well, while she has a bigger 'boom' spell that knocks people down as well.
She also has a 'buff' spell to allow a unit to move past terrain and such, so keeps to the 'fast' theme.
She is controlling in that, when she feats or uses crippling grasp, she prevents the enemy from charging and they move much slower.
If she is crazy close she can seduce the enemy into attacking their own friends, or she can do it from longer range with influence.
The box comes with the Slayer warjack, essentially the beatstick that hits accurately and hard with debuffs going on.
The the arc nodes to give her reach and angles for which to cast the spell list of hers. They make great slammers and general disruption.

Problems:
She is squishy. Relatively hard to hit and has stealth, but there are ways around it, or if anything is lucky enough to hit, it will damage her fairly easily...so you'll want to keep at range with something to block line of sight if you come up against something like.... Grim Angus or eCaine, etc.
The jacks (little and small) are very fast, but very fragile too. They can't take too many hits, even from average powered guns.

I just will be starting with 4-5 other people and i dont want to be on the wrong end of the stick and lose intrest with setting a owish budget till i know more of the game.

Don't worry, just yanking your chain.

Magic varies heavily between buffs and offensive. Most casters will have a mix of both, although they tend to lean towards one or the other.

If you're looking for a speedy board-control faction with lots of powerful spell slingers, Cryx may be a good fit for you. For the most part, they tend to lean more towards offensive spells and debuffs rather than buffing their own troops, although there's a couple of exceptions (Mortenebra comes to mind). Their warjacks are the fastest in the game, with heavies as fast as other faction's lights and bone chickens that can keep pace with heavy cavalry. For board control, they've a variety of tarpit units like the Revenant Pirates, Mechanithralls, and even Bane Thralls in certain lists, along with a large variety of models capable of temporarily controlling enemy infantry. Also, they're ninja robot zombie pirate dominatrixes.

If you're more interested in Hordes, Legion and Circle sound like your bag.

Circle tends less towards blatant offensive magic, instead favoring buffs and a bit of terrain manipulation (again, with a couple exceptions like Krueger the Storm Wrath). They're exceedingly mobile, as nearly every model in the army ignores rough terrain. If you're looking for board control, several of their casters and a few Warbeasts are capable of manufacturing terrain in the form of forests or obstructions (Baldur goes as far as turning his entire control area into rough terrain on feat turn), and quite a few models get substantial bonuses from lurking in said forests.

Legion, on the other hand, has some of the most stupidly powerful warbeasts in the game, capable of getting in your opponent's face quickly due to the large amount of pathfinder and flight. Their infantry are a bit less mobile for the most part, but are typically extremely good at what they do. Their magic varies a lot from caster to caster. I'd go into more detail, but I'm afraid I'm not overly familiar with them myself.

To be honest, I did go with Cryx, but I'm still seduced by other factions and casters all the time.

So far i like the models of

Cryx
Khador
Protectorate

When i look at rulebooks, i see a list of 4-5 different books come up..

Which is the one im looking for ?

You could always go the fun way and pick up a Rhulic army...

You'll want Prime Mk II (or Primal Mk II for Hordes), which contains the core rules and a good chunk of the models for each army. You may want to pick up the book for your faction, although it's not entirely necessary, as you can just pick up a stat deck and/or glance at the cards for the model/unit before you buy it (if your FLGS lets you, anyway). Until Wrath comes out, all the other books are outdated due to the Mk II changeover, and can safely be ignored (unless you really like fluff).

Sounds like you're off to a good start.

if you want the option to play with multiple warcasters it can get a bit pricey.

but I was able to mash out a retribution army that has a tier 3 kalyssa, a tier 3 rahn, and a no tier ravyn due to overlapping models.

this lets me play 35-50pt games without an issue and only set me back like $350 after books dice army case etc.

Which is not fast.
Though the controlling aspect in the form of Land Slide is pretty epic.

ForgeGuard and High Shields are very characterful and good units too... (high shields being pricey and both being very slow but powerful).

As for rulebooks, there's only the mainrule book to worry about. And then the faction specific ones.

Menoth: magic/controling/fast. I think the Harbinger fits the bill, with the rest of the list moving fast . Lots of magic with Foc10!! And controlling as she has rebuke or influence and a feat that says 'no u' to advancing.
Though the issue with her is working with her large base.
Feora is another, but not so much controlling...unless you mean controlling the flamer throwers to being crispy or crispier!

Khador: Sorcha is naturally fast and has a spell to even move again, she is controlling with her feat freezing people, but is a beat stick herself.
The Old Witch: is controlling with her feat as well somewhat like the Harbinger, she has a multipurpose cloud effect and is highly mobile with her porting power...she also brings the only arc node in khador and does decently in Combat if need be.

Cryx: p/e Gaspy is another choice. He's fast due to teleport. He has alot of magic to fling (not too shappy in combat as well). Controlling is not so much I guess.
pGaspy is more of an all-rounder... Breath can give some board control, but not alot his feat does have a damage aspect that covers a good portion of the board, but it's crazy low power. eGaspy gives more control due to his placeable mists...can be used offensivel and defensively. Somewhat controlling is that you don't mind sending
Hmm controlling...
Coven have a feat for blining people in a wide area, she focuses on maximizing the mobility of the army with a side of spell assassination.
eSkarre gets to protect or prevent damage dealing on X number of models around her with her feat. She focuses on shooting though.
Venetrax has pretty good board control due to Lamentation versus more caster oriented enemies, but he's not much of a team player.

Landslide has won me more games then I care to admit...

Honestly though, if you like alot of personality in your models, any of the merch armies have their own unique twists, dwarfs, pirates...

Its really up to the person playing though, every faction can win, so play what you like the look of the most.

Is there anywhere that has a list of all the Warmachine / Horde armies.. That will tell what their Game Strengths are ?

Like i hear Khador is a Melee army etc.

Im just wanting to know the Style of each army and what they are best at, and cant really seem to find much.

Magic ?
Fast ?
Melee ?
Shooty ?


Found the Warmachine ones on Warseer, but still curious what the horde army sterngths are each.

Sanctjud wrote:

But in general:

Cygnar: shooty and jack of all trades and lightning.
Khador: slow and tough and ice.
Cryx: glass hammers and corrosion.
Menoth: buff central and fire.
Mercs: all over the place in a good way.
Circle: Fast and terrain centric.
Skorne: melee beatstick but slow.
Legion: glass hammers and can't hide from them.
Trollbloods: very tough and bufftastic.
Minion: Newbies on the block.

I thought this would be a decent runthough

And its pretty accurate.

Each of the main factions have their specialty.

Cyrgnar: I would put as the most balanced of the main Warmachines forces, you can do pretty much anything with this list, I tend to see the units as pretty easy to kill, not anywhere near as fragile as Cryx but still one of the more fragile factions.

Khador: If you want an army that slowly advances on an enemy, takes a ton of damage but never dies, then this is the army for you. This is a mostly melee faction.

Cryx: The desiesed kings of damage, but if you look at them funny they die. This is an army that is best described as a Glass Sword.

Menoth: Burn the Heratics. Seriously they bring fire, and lots of it. Definatly on of the most template heavy factions out there. They are a good mix of everything, they are however alittle week on damage.

Mercs can do pretty much anything they want, but not always as well as one of the main factions. If you want a variaed play style and some unique looking units then this is the faction for you. It is also the most expensive faction to play, there are no boxed sets for this faction.

Sanctjud wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:

But in general:

Cygnar: shooty and jack of all trades and lightning.
Khador: slow and tough and ice.
Cryx: glass hammers and corrosion.
Menoth: buff central and fire.
Mercs: all over the place in a good way.
Circle: Fast and terrain centric.
Skorne: melee beatstick but slow.
Legion: glass hammers and can't hide from them.
Trollbloods: very tough and bufftastic.
Minion: Newbies on the block.

I thought this would be a decent runthough

I feel bad now.. totally missed that between yesterday and today.

That is perfect btw.

Leaning toward Khador due to models.

How are their magic though ?

How are their magic though ?

Just as good as anyone elses. Due to the Warcaster/Warlock mechanic, there isn't a faction that doesn't have stupidly good magic.

^True.

Khador is not subtle with anything .
If you like fast...Strakov and pVlad make for some speedy Jacks....which is great when you have the thickest armor of the faction and moving so slow naturally.

Old Witch (again) is fast via teleport, controlling due to her feat that essentially stops the enemy from moving forward, and generally depends on casting powers for defense and offense. (but from what i've read, she is pretty hard to use as she is squishy as a magicy caster)
_____________________

I think the pbutcher is a good start.
He has buffs, can do with a jack or two.
He's forgiving in that his defenses are pretty good and he can dish it out in combat. His control is knowing that no body wants to get within charge range of him And you have obliteration if you are looking for the unexpected.
_____________________

Personally, I like epic Butcher.... cause he's a homicdal maniac.....it's in his rules and Strakov, cause I like his model the most out of all the casters.

If I remember correctly they have very few arch-nodes.

Cryx are very squishy, ? but does speed make up for that ?

Or do they just do alot of damage

Spyder68 wrote:Cryx are very squishy, ? but does speed make up for that ?

Or do they just do alot of damage

They tend to be extremely fast and hard to hit, but conversely also have low armor scores. Of course, some of their models (McThralls, Biles to an extent) just die to a stiff breeze, but for the most part they're extremely good at avoiding being shot in the first place.

Yet another question.. or 2..

Looking at Cygnar Models..

So far the 2 i like are..

Warcaster - Major Victoria Haley and Lord Commander Stryker

What type of theme are these ?



Solo units.. Major Katherine Laddermore..

Are solo units basically elites ?

Is Katherine worth using ? As so far i think its my favorite model.

What type of things can she do ?

Yup solos are elites (though not always an elite -soldier- but they tend to have useful abilities.

as for the casters, i suggest you pick up a copy of Warmachine Prime mk.2, as already stated, it contains all basic rules and some of the army specific rules.

//Hoffen

Solos actually represent experienced guys that act alone, often elite, but not always.

Katherine is worth it, but it's better if you pair her up with other Stormlances. Stormlances, like a lot of cavalry, are still pretty useful, but you have to use them well. This means you'll want to get the charge with them.

Haley and Stryker tend to be more middle ground casters, good defense and offense, with Haley being more on the defense side with Temporal Barrier, and Stryker better on the offense.

With haley you'll usually want stuff that will work with the way she slows down enemy armies as they close in on you, so more ranged troops than melee. Striker will eventually have to close in to do killing, so troops that can protect him as he gets closer, with some ranged backup to pick off targets before they're a problem.

Vertrucio: Wrong Haley. Major is epic, so is rather more oriented towards 'Jack casting with just a touch of offensive magic, along with possibly the most godawful annoying board control feat in the game. She can still slow down select targets with Time Bomb, but nothing like what judicial use of Temporal Barrier does. However, between her Bond, Temporal Acceleration, and Telekinesis, she can make her 'jacks fly. Throw a Stormclad or Centurion on her and watch them get a caster kill from half the board away.

Ah, sorry. Cygnar is my 3rd played army, and when I do use them I mainly play Siege or Darius so I don't know the versions of Styker and Haley that well.

Cavalry has a very important in WM, you can use them as a frontline charge, sacrificing them to do some damage, but mainly forcing your opponent to throw most of his army's attacks that way to kill them. Or you can charge or run in something else, then put the Stormlances behind that unit, in prime position to get off a nasty series of Cavalry charges using impact attacks, then normal attacks to cut through a swath of enemies.