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So, I've come to a bit of an impasse regarding Sanguinary Guard. Aside from the fact that the models look awesome, I am struggling to find a legitimate reason why one would field a large number of them if their intent was to create a relatively competitive army. I turn the question to you then, fellow Dakkaites: "How would one create a playable, [relatively] competitive army list using Sanguinary Guard as its base?"

Here's what I've been working with thus far:

Dante

Sanguinary Gaurd -- Power Fist

Sanguinary Gaurd -- Power Fist

Sanguinary Gaurd -- Power Fist

Sanguinary Gaurd -- Power Fist

Sanguinary Gaurd -- Power Fist

Vanguard Veterans (x5) -- Power Fist, Power Sword, Jump Packs

Vanguard Veterans (x5) -- Power Fist, Power Sword, Jump Packs

Vanguard Veterans (x5) -- Power Fist, Power Sword, Jump Packs

* * * * *

1845 Points

41 Models, All with Deep Strike.

The idea here is to drop everything in on top of the enemy, with the Vanguards initiating an assault on vulnerable parts of the enemy's army while the Sanguinary Guard drop down a little bit behind, acting as the hammerblow to the Vanguard's anvil. Dante will join a squad of the Guard. I think the shock value of this army has the potential to shatter some forces, but bigger armies that can castle up with layer upon layer of cheap units will probably give this list a lot of trouble. I played with a pure Sanguinary Guard variation of this list earlier and got stomped, but I think that had more to do with my battlefield decisions than list composition (I was unfamiliar with the concept of multiple deep-striking units with assault potential, and got a little overzealous against a Daemons army!).

Any suggestions, ideas, are welcomed. Thanks in advance.

I'd drop a squad of Vanguard to give infernus pistols. well, actually I probably wouldn't have the balls to play a 35 model marine army of golden nipples, but if you are, then you will need infernus pistols. PF's are... hit and miss with a 5-man squad as if you are denied the furious charge you may lose all of them before he gets a hit off. Pistols let you open up vehicles before assaulting the insides. And you want to be in assault all the time, not standing in front of a newly cracked open transport with 5-15 guns staring at you with a big smile.

Yeah you have to get some more anti tank ability into this list, ideally you want to be charging infantry so you can prevent yourself from being shot to death the following turn, which means you want to be cracking transport with shooting.

In any case I think BA Jump Pack based lists are far better off going with standard Assault Marines, you get a couple of meltaguns and can still do the job in combat + have the bodies to handle damage better.

I'd consider droping the veterans in exchange for Assult Marines, Ideally I would be looking for 2 full squads of assult marines with metlas then take as many guard as you can.

Throw in Priests and Chaplains to get FnP, furious charge and re-roll to hit. The Priest might not be so much a benefit as things gonig for S-Guard will be plasma and power weaps etc.

I was thinking about how I could best utilize all the Power Weapons in the list. Sanguinary Priests are a sure thing, but I worry that as a W1 model they will be killed off too quickly. How about this?

Dante
Astorath the Grim

Sanguinary Guard -- Power Fist, Infernus Pistols (2)
Sanguinary Guard -- Power Fist, Infernus Pistols (2)
Sanguinary Guard -- Power Fist

Assault Squad (5) -- Power Fist, Combi-Melta, Meltagun
Assault Squad (5) -- Power Fist, Combi-Melta, Meltagun

Vanguard Veterans (5) -- Thunder Hammer, Power Weapons (2), Jump Packs (5)
Vanguard Veterans (5) -- Thunder Hammer, Power Weapons (2), Jump Packs (5)

* * * * *

1850 Points, 37 Models. It loses a few bodies to take Astorath (who gives half the army Furious Charge) and a few melta weapons in Assault Squads, which replace the Sanguinary Guard.

MUCH less durable, but I think the trade-off between mostly Sv2+ and getting those Meltaguns into range (for the Heroic Intervention squads to do their thing against the contents of exploded transports) is unavoidable.

I'm not sure I like this list any better, but it is at least something to stir the conversation further.

Its going to be an uphill battle, but you can do it. If you play a perfect game.

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:I was thinking about how I could best utilize all the Power Weapons in the list. Sanguinary Priests are a sure thing, but I worry that as a W1 model they will be killed off too quickly. How about this?

Dante
Astorath the Grim

Sanguinary Guard -- Power Fist, Infernus Pistols (2)
Sanguinary Guard -- Power Fist, Infernus Pistols (2)
Sanguinary Guard -- Power Fist

Assault Squad (5) -- Power Fist, Combi-Melta, Meltagun
Assault Squad (5) -- Power Fist, Combi-Melta, Meltagun

Vanguard Veterans (5) -- Thunder Hammer, Power Weapons (2), Jump Packs (5)
Vanguard Veterans (5) -- Thunder Hammer, Power Weapons (2), Jump Packs (5)

* * * * *

1850 Points, 37 Models. It loses a few bodies to take Astorath (who gives half the army Furious Charge) and a few melta weapons in Assault Squads, which replace the Sanguinary Guard.

MUCH less durable, but I think the trade-off between mostly Sv2+ and getting those Meltaguns into range (for the Heroic Intervention squads to do their thing against the contents of exploded transports) is unavoidable.

I'm not sure I like this list any better, but it is at least something to stir the conversation further.

Not really, the Priests cannot be shot at and only close combat is there weakness. Just don't put them in base contact but then you cannot fight.

Why Astrorath? He only allows re-roll to hit when charging and he doesn't give furious charge to half the other either, you only get that if you roll right, that ability isn't guranteed. I would drop him. He uses too many points and only gives F.C as a maybe and re-roll to hit. Get a Chaplain for cheaper and you still need Priests so your Marines can survive longer.

No scoring troops.....

Unless you're in annihilation then you're kinda stuck...

Epic fail Cornennus. Dante makes Sanguinary Guard troops and the second list as 10 Assault Marines; not a lot but they score.

didn't see second list.

and even if sanguinary guard become trooops they aren't scoring.

Yes they are. When something makes something troops that means they score.

As I suspected, Astorath was a passing interest. I went back to the first and modified it a bit to get the following list. It has one squad less than the original, but I was able to beef out the other units and add a Priest to provide some longevity for Dante's unit (which will work as a nice little nexus for the force).

Dante

Sanguinary Priest -- Jump Pack, Power Sword, Meltabombs

Sanguinary Guard -- Infernus Pistols (2), Power Fist (2), Chapter Banner

Sanguinary Guard -- Infernus Pistol, Power Fist

Sanguinary Guard -- Infernus Pistol, Power Fist

Sanguinary Guard -- Power Fist

Sanguinary Guard -- Power Fist

Vanguard Veterans (5) -- Thunder Hammer, Power Weapon, Meltabombs (1), Jump Packs (5)

Vanguard Veterans (5) -- Thunder Hammer, Power Weapon, Meltabombs (1), Jump Packs (5)

* * * * *

1850 Points.

Still a low count with 37 Models, but that's not going to change with what I'm trying to make with this list. The Vanguard units will land close to Dante and his "Command Squad" of Sanguinary Guard, and between their assault and Dante's triple-melta shots versus armor, the other four Guard squads should have the way paved for them upon landing.

At least, that's the theory. I'm going to play-test this iteration several times tomorrow, so I'll see how it goes.

I still think every squad needs 2 pistols, but hey, give this thing a try. I like the thunder hammers on the vanguards, but I think you could save points and go without PWs.

I hope you can make it work!

Corennus - Yes, they are scoring, only way to make a legal BA army without scoring units is a pure DC build.



OT: I'd drop the vets for basic assault marines, then use points elsewhere for decent upgrades.
Infernus pistolds work great, and more reliable than a fist.

Also, why not take priests?
You have a unit that has a 2+ save, why not make that even more solid against most attacks?


Due to low model count, you will get pulled down in combat.
Against a green tide list your facing 180 boyz, plus whatever else they want to throw in there, you dont have the numbers to cope with it.


Also, units like melta vets will tear through your unit quickly, so you need a backup plan when going near anything that ignores saves.

Plasma command squads and Meltavets are definitely something that would scare me with this list. The Green Tide will always give lists like this a challenge due to numbers. That one hidden Power Klaw has the potential to wreck an entire Sang unit even if you do kill the majority of them before he strikes.

If you want to make it truly viable in today's metagame, you need some melta honor guard. It's really easy to justify as well- they are honor guard who have yet to be accepted into the Sanguinary Host, and otherwise serve as Dante's primary firing support squad in the skies. This does one of two things. Gives you a priest that can't be picked out at all, and gives you some much needed anti vehicle over 3'' away. And if you want them to fit in, hell- model them with SG models.

My .02 anyways. The small units of Vanguard Vets aren't worth it, and would be better used points in Honor Guards.

Dante
Libby (shield / sword)
2x HG with jump packs and 4x meltaguns

SG with banner and fist
3x SG with a fist
SG with a 2x IP (Libby with sword goes here for the Str 10 protection)

Bam.

So, I think I was originally a bit too harsh on the idea of Sanguinary Guard. It seems that they can work, but you need to be SOOOOOO pro with your forces.

So here's a quick rundown of the two games:

First game @1850 vs Black Legion Chaos Space Marines

I was overaggressive with the deployment of my forces, and after a couple of crappy rolls for assaulting through difficult terrain which ended up costing me the initiative, I got thoroughly spanked by a 10-man Terminator Squad and Abaddon. I pushed the list into assault and ended up shattering a fragile force against a tough enemy. My dice FAILED, but ultimately I was encouraged by what I saw, despite a couple minor tactical errors and the dice simply hating me (failing a 3-inch charge twice through difficult terrain, whiffing against a Rhino with 3 Infernus Pistols in Melta range, whiffing with 2 Fists and a Thunder Hammer against a stunned Dread, losing the Sanguinary Priest on the first round of assault against some Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcerer...you get the picture).

Second game @1850 vs Daemonzilla-Crusher force

Having learnt my lesson, I played much more conservatively. Daemons are even more unforgiving to fight in Assault, especially when my opponent has 3 Princes and 2 Bloodthirsters backed up by two 4-man Bloodrusher Squads. I danced around in a four-objective Seize Ground mission, and ended up bringing the entire game down to one alpha-strike in turn 4. I wiped out a Crusher squad, took a retaliatory charge from the other Crushers, a Thirster and a Prince, managed to bounce back with layers and countercharge hard enough that in turn five my opponent controlled three objectives, which was followed by what I thought to be an awesome positioning movement that allowed me to control all three objectives my opponent had previously taken in turn six.

The game went to turn seven though, and I ended up playing for a draw with one surviving model (the Sanguinary Priest, no less!) and was successful. He still had all five MCs (two were wounded), but I had wiped his 20 Bloodletters and 8 Crushers and would have won overwhelmingly in Turn 6.

Overall, I learned experientially that the list is very, VERY brittle. However, if you play to the fact that it can deploy anywhere, will deny the enemy at least one full turn of shooting, and is so fast that it can zip across the table at will, you won't be disappointed. I may have only had one Priest to my opponent's 5 MCs and one Bloodletter that I contested against with my Priest to eke out a draw, but I was overall very happy with the way the list worked. It will take me another 4-5 games to get a handle on how to wield them in combat, I think, but in general it was a ton of fun to play and actually pretty solid.

I have seen this list used very well. You have to max out the special weapons and I have seen it with Dante and sangiour, Priest for each unit is a good upgrade so there not as fragile.

It does well but can get swept aside but that is any army almost.

Sanguinary Priest -- Jump Pack, Power Sword, Meltabombs

Why spend the points on a power sword for him? You never want him in combat. This is the issue with Sang Guard lists with squads only numbering 5 it is very difficult to ensure the SP doesn't make combat.

I prefer the idea with the HG supporting the SG with hidden SPs and full range Melta.