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I have a friend who wants to start a Tau Farsight army and I wanted to make sure my interpretation of the wound allocation rules is right before I give him advice.

So the rules say models must be the same in “gaming terms” which is vague, but this is how I would apply it in the following situations. Would you do the same?

Situation A

Suit A has a drone controller and 2 shield drones
Suit B has a drone controller and 2 shield drones.

There are actually three “groups” for wound allocation. The suits which as of right now are identical, drones for suit A, and drones for suit B. I see it this way because the drones are actually different in game terms. If Suit a dies A drones bite it too. If suit B dies B drones bite it. Since they are tied to different controllers this makes them different in “gaming terms”.

Situation B

Suit A has a drone controller and 2 shield drones
Suit B has a drone controller, had 2 shield drones but one has died.

This makes four groups. A drones and B drones are different, but now the suits are different. If suit A dies 2 drones also bite it. If suit B dies only one drone bites it. That to me is obviously different in game terms and the two suits are different groups.

Situation C

Suit A has Plasma Rifle, Missle Pod, Target Lock, Hard wired Multi tracker.
Suit B has Plasma Rifle, Missle Pod, Multi Tracker, Hard wired target lock.

I think this is the most abusive one. But I would say 2 different groups. The only argument I could see against this is that they play exactly the same, and so they are the same in “game terms”. One the other hand building units is part of the game and these were not built identically.

I’m interested to see everyone’s opinions.

Thanks!

Gaming terms is actually well specified - it states same stats and equipment.

meaning in situation A you have 2 groups, as the fact the drones die is A dies is irrelevant to what "gaming terms" applies to.

Situation B - is the same as situation A, as in gaming terms you have 2 identical suits and 3 identical drones, for same reason as above.

C is indeed two different groups as the wargear is different.

@ Nos

in situation B, aren't they considered different. As drones are considered wargear, and one suit has 1 and one suit has 2. The wargear layout is then different.

You might find this thread useful re: drones and controllers: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/296849.page#1607070

Situation C is 100% two wound groups - the game doesn't care about the spirit of the law, only the letter of the law.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Gaming terms is actually well specified - it states same stats and equipment.

So are a guard Astropath and Officer of the Fleet the same in gaming terms?

I was giving the shorthand version - as they dont function exactly the same then no, they are not the same.

While drones are wargear they are ALSO models, and you assign wounds to MODELS - and so even if you have one dron left it has the same stats as the other two drones and so forms a group.
"in gaming terms" doesnt care for externalities such as whether additional drones die and if so, how many, when you kill a crisis suit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:I was giving the shorthand version - as they dont function exactly the same then no, they are not the same...


"in gaming terms" doesnt care for externalities such as whether additional drones die and if so, how many, when you kill a crisis suit.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Drones A and B don’t function the same even though they have the same stats. If suit B dies B drones die while A drone live on, and vice versa. That to me is a significant difference.

The rules also say (as I read the other thread) game terms includes special rules, the special rules are different for A drones and B. A drones dies with A, B drones die with B.

I agree with nosferatu1001. Regardless of how the shield drones are bought for the unit, for wound allocation they are all in the same group.

All of the situations you have listed are two groups.

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:I was giving the shorthand version - as they dont function exactly the same then no, they are not the same...


"in gaming terms" doesnt care for externalities such as whether additional drones die and if so, how many, when you kill a crisis suit.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Drones A and B don’t function the same even though they have the same stats. If suit B dies B drones die while A drone live on, and vice versa. That to me is a significant difference.

The rules also say (as I read the other thread) game terms includes special rules, the special rules are different for A drones and B. A drones dies with A, B drones die with B.

Dying isn't a special rule (though if it was my tau would always have it lol) and therefor who might die has no bearing on the similar wound groups.

zeshin wrote:Dying isn't a special rule (though if it was my tau would always have it lol) and therefor who might die has no bearing on the similar wound groups.

It depends on what you mean by special rule. If you mean universal special rule than no. But if you mean rules outside the BRB (like with the Astropath and Officer of the Fleet) than yes the drones dieing when the drone controller bites it is a special rule.

So I’ve been reading the Adepticon FAQ which everyone in my area uses, and they say that a used combi weapon is the same as a non used combi weapon because they were bought the same way. Not sure if I agree with it but if I’m being honest that to me sounds like situation B. Just because Suit B has lost a drone doesn’t make them different because they were bought the same.

But I do think that if at the beginning of the game someone has to mark these are drones A and these are B, and that when this guy dies these go away and when this guy dies these go away, those drones special rules (dying when someone else dies is not a normal rule) ARE different, and they should be a different group.

It is the same as a wounded nob, identical in every other way, is STILL the same as a non wounded nob.

From what the BRB says there is no way that the two drones are different groups, as at the point you are determining woudns thy are exactly the same - and dying, as has been said, isnt a special rule. Or if you decide it is they have the *same* special rule (unit dies with parent) meaning they are still identical.

nosferatu1001 wrote:It is the same as a wounded nob, identical in every other way, is STILL the same as a non wounded nob.

From what the BRB says there is no way that the two drones are different groups, as at the point you are determining woudns thy are exactly the same - and dying, as has been said, isnt a special rule. Or if you decide it is they have the *same* special rule (unit dies with parent) meaning they are still identical.

I said wounded and non wounded are the same.

And I do think the drone controller rules are obviously special rules.

I would say that the special rule for A drones is they die when A dies which is not identical to the B drones dieing when B dies. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. I would let my opponent play it against but I wouldn't try it on someone else.

Anyway, I have gotten a feel for what people's reaction would be if my friend played it that way outside our group. Thanks.