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Okay.. considerign dumping my Dark Eldar and starting Necrons (as far as I can see, everyone thinks there is one good thing about DE, and everything else sucks... but since everyone can't agree on ANY one thing... and the army listis fubared for possibly years to come waiting for a new Codex, I am thinking about saying 'forget it'), and since I'm the sort who LOVES fluff and 'pointless backstory', I have a few questions about their gods.

How many are there? What are they like? What sort of aspects do they represent (other than Nightbringer and the Deceiver).

Most of all... how do they relate to the Chaos Gods and the Old ones? Are they related?

There are only four C'tan still alive (that are known of).

The other two are:

The Outsider (insane)

The Dragon (apparently very technologically advanced for a C'tan).

The C'tan have no dealings with the Chaos Gods (that we know of), and hate the Old Ones. There is no relation between them and the Chaos Gods or the Old Ones.

I'll help too, the Nightbringer and the Deceiver are pretty well covered in the codex, so here are some tidbits about the other two:

The Outsider: (presumably) Lives in a Dyson sphere in the path of Hive Fleet Leviathan, somehow connected to the Bugs. Went absolutly insane before the coming of the Enslavers when he started to eat other C'tan

The Dragon: Currently resides in a sealed mine in the north pole of Mars (yeah, Mars) in some form of stasis, a (sizable?) sect of the Machine Cult see him as the Machine God, needless to say when he wakes up the Imperium will see a civil war in the same scale of the Horus Heresy.

Also: the Deceiver has used Chaos for his own ends (see the 13th Black Crusade and the seizing of the Blackstone Fortresses) and also might have made the Tau depending on who you talk to.

The Void Dragon supposedly has nothing to do with the Cult Mechanicus. It's locked inside some funny orb the size of a solar system. There was a massive discussion over it on some other forum.

 

I lie, it's actually the Outsider.

The Outsider: (presumably) Lives in a Dyson sphere in the path of Hive Fleet Leviathan, somehow connected to the Bugs. Went absolutly insane before the coming of the Enslavers when he started to eat other C'tan

The only "connection" in the fluff is that the Tyranids are avoiding Necron tomb worlds. Some have read a little too much into this, and claimed that the C'tan created the Tyranids, etc., which is not supported in any fluff ever written. The Tyranids are extra-galactic anyway.

There are two very simple reasons why the Tyranids would avoid tomb worlds.

1) There's no life on them. The Necrons chose dead worlds to avoid the Enslavers. If there's no food for the Tyranids, they'd move on and not waste any energy.

2) Pariahs may be affecting them. The Pariah gene causes dead spots in the warp, and the Tyranids are highly warp-sensitive. If they "see" a dead spot in the warp, they'd presumably think "tastes bad" or "nothing here" and move on once again.

An interesting thought is that the Pariahs are being created not just as a weapon against the Imperium, Eldar, Chaos, Orks, etc., but also as a cloaking device to protect them from the Tyranids. I'd imagine the C'tan and Necrons would be more than happy to avoid fighting Tyranids and let them do much of their dirty work for them.

I think the Hive Fleet avoiding the Dyson's sphere is because a few probe spores flew into the system, went 'Holy gak!' and even the Hive Mind decided that was something it didn't want to mess with (based on the fact that if it simply didn't care about a big metal sphere, it would've passed right on by and just ignored it. However, that part of the Hive Fleet made a signifigant course alteration to avoid it - You gotta believe something is nasty if the Hive Mind takes a look at it and says, "Yeah... I think I'll just go... over here now...)

The only "connection" in the fluff is that the Tyranids are avoiding Necron tomb worlds. Some have read a little too much into this, and claimed that the C'tan created the Tyranids, etc., which is not supported in any fluff ever written. The Tyranids are extra-galactic anyway.
I was under the impression that it was just the Outsider's little sphere that they were shying away from, and I dont mean simply flying by and not Tyraforming it, but more along the lines of going light years out of their way to avoid it. While I agree with what you are saying, many people are of the opinion that there is some connection between the two and I guess that I should've worded my post so that it was a little clearer.
Pariahs may be affecting them. The Pariah gene causes dead spots in the warp, and the Tyranids are highly warp-sensitive. If they "see" a dead spot in the warp, they'd presumably think "tastes bad" or "nothing here" and move on once again.

Interesting, I would be curious about how the 'Nid "Shadow of the Warp" interacts with the Pariah's own aura.

EDIT-#2 I give up. Dakka: curse your Cthonic formatting!!!

I was under the impression that it was just the Outsider's little sphere that they were shying away from, and I dont mean simply flying by and not Tyraforming it, but more along the lines of going light years out of their way to avoid it. While I agree with what you are saying, many people are of the opinion that there is some connection between the two and I guess that I should've worded my post so that it was a little clearer.

Personally, I think that's reading too much into it. The map was probably just meant to show that they were avoiding it in general. But if you want to go down that route, it's reasonable to assume that the Outsider and his Necrons have probably wiped out nearby inhabited worlds, and thus nearby food sources.

Interesting, I would be curious about how the 'Nid "Shadow of the Warp" interacts with the Pariah's own aura.

The Shadow is just a disturbance in the warp. The psychic presence of the hive fleets is like a boat traveling through water...in its wake, the water gets choppy and knocks you around. What the Pariahs do is something else...they're ANTI-warp. It's kind of a deadening effect.

I remember a while back, someone saying some theory about the tyranids being created as the ultimate weapons to kill the ctan, because of their connection to the warp, and that the hive mind was inbetween the warp and realspace...

It made a lot more sense at the time...

Kinda OT, but can someone clue me in on what a Dyson Sphere is?

You can wiki it up for a full explanation, but the short of it is, a Dyson's Sphere is what you get when you build a shell (generally 1 AU out) around a star, allowing the builders to contain, and utilize all of the star's energy output.

Yeah, imagine the path of Earth's orbit is about the equator of a gigantic hollow sphere.

I don't know anything about this whole Tyranid thingy, but I have heard of the machine god theory.
I remember something about orcs, that they were also created by somebody for something, ne 3rd edition codex says something about the "bronze god of war".
hey, I don't want to be khorny!

The Orks were made by the old ones to kill Necrons.  Thats why when they are born they can field strip a rifle.  This also explains why they love fighting so much.   Unlike every other race that has a motive they just kill for the sake of killing.

and the old ones would be Slann/Lizard Men, or something like that?

I cannot wait until the Dragon wakes up. That could be the coolest summer campaign ever. Of course they'll never ever do it. But it would be awesome. Civil war within the Imperium, and a huge threat within the same solar system of terra? That's actually a story that could be cool and actually shake things up. Not that things get shaken up...


Yeah, the Slann were froggy/lizard guys.

It would probably also mean the end of the Imperium as we know it (!), so, it probably won't be happening any time soon, if then...

they would have to take out every machine seer guy out of all empire codicies AND most of their armory would fall into bits.
Nope, that is SO NOT going to happen.

but, out of question, it would rock!

Posted By Anung Un Rama on 03/30/2006 11:49 AM
and the old ones would be Slann/Lizard Men, or something like that?

 

Yep. 

Posted By The Crawling Chaos on 03/30/2006 2:17 PM
I cannot wait until the Dragon wakes up. That could be the coolest summer campaign ever. Of course they'll never ever do it. But it would be awesome. Civil war within the Imperium, and a huge threat within the same solar system of terra? That's actually a story that could be cool and actually shake things up. Not that things get shaken up...


Yeah, the Slann were froggy/lizard guys.

More for Chaos!!

On a side note... Isn't there a direct link between Pariahs and humans?  A link between Imperial Assassins and Necrons?

the Callidus Assassin uses a C'Tan sword like Cypher did before the new Rules from the WD.
there's a short story in the Necron Codex where a Callidus Assassin kills a rouge governator, but then he absorbs the blade and turns into a C'Tan

Necron Pariahs are humans that possess the Pariah gene, that have been captured by Necrons and transformed into the Pariah unit. Possessing the Pariah gene means that you are  essentially souless.  If psychic power was measured on a numerical scale, you'd be a negative number. These are the same type of people that the Culuxes temple uses to create it assassins.

The thing that strikes me about the sphere is that if you take the third ed. 'Nid codex it is a borderworld called "New Hope" in the Necron dex it became a giant steel orb.

IIRC, the Necron codex has a story about a Farseer (was it Eldrad? I don't have my codex in front of me) who has a vision that the destruction of the Culexus training world (which the Eldar would ordinarily see as a blessed event) would bring doom to the Eldar.

It's unclear if that's because the Culexus can be an effective countermeasure to the Necron's Pariahs (doesn't make a lot of sense), or simply if Necrons harvesting that many humans with the Pariah gene would immensely bolster their ranks.

I was just reading it the other night. The farseer was from the aliatoc craftworld (and it seemed to be a followup on the fluff piece for the culexus in the assassins codex).

My theory is that the necrons are "protecting" the culexus assassins. Possibily for future harvest, but also maybe because of the old saying: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

It could also be that he was wrong and it wasn't the culexus temple after all, but a Necron tomb world where they were busy "making" pariahs.

Rather than having the Dragon awake, I'd like to see the outsider. The guy is clearly a nutjob, even for C'Tan. Who trapped him inside the Dyson sphere? Will he ever emerge? Sure, it'd destroy the Imperium, but haven't they tried doing that in campaigns anyway? If the 3rd Battle for Armageddon Campaign or Abbaddon's 13th black crusade had been a more overwhelming victory for the bad guys, the changes to the fluff would be huge.
Personally, I think the 'nids would be avoiding the sphere due to a combination of the fact that a) there's nothing there, and b) some sort of interference warning them to keep away. However, if the Outsider is still aware of the galaxy outside and not in stasis, could he sense the huge amount of food a Hive fleet would present? He'd wanna get his hands on that... it'd be like an all you can eat buffet, C'Tan style.

"If the 3rd Battle for Armageddon Campaign or Abbaddon's 13th black crusade had been a more overwhelming victory for the bad guys, the changes to the fluff would be huge."
maybe that's because the Bad Guys did not win. yes I know they won on EoT, but is was soooooooooooooooo close.

but I would prefer to see a campaign about the dragon. would be a great opportunity to make a Adeptus Mechanicus Army

that would be really sweet, i stand by the theory the void dragon as ive heard it called on mars is the machine god, and my theory is that all machines in the imperium is blessed to to machine god by imbuning the machine with part of the machine god that if he wakes up surely he would be able to control all machines on the imperium itself. Imagine it the defences of mars turning against earth, whole titan legions under the dragons control, the adeptus mechainicus mindless drons or food for his awakening. also why i believe he will never be released the imperium would fall and just the meer thought of modeling such a creature would be an impossible task!, yeah rant over, but C'tan rock.

and when everything is on the edge of termination the Space Marine Primarchs come back. then they all climb into their super titans and do a super fusion move. then they kick God *donkey*in their super Power Force Titan.