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Howdy all,

Just threw down a quick 1250 list of stuff that looked good. I'm just trying to get a good idea of what to start buying. C&C is always appreciated as I'm a newb!

HQ
---
Thane - Great Weapon, Rune of Resistance, rune of spite - 139

Troops
---------
20x Warriors - Full command, shields - 205

20x Warriors - Full command, Longbeards, Great Weapons, Rangers, Throwing axes - 300

20x Miners - Full command, Blasting Charge - 275

Special
--------
Grudgethrower - engineer- 95

Cannon - Rune of burning, engineer - 110

Rare
------
Organ gun - 120

Total - 1244

What do ya'll think?

I would swap a cannon for a grudgethrower as now our cannons are d6 wounds, and the grudgethrower will help take out big blocks.

Im not a big fan of miners i would rather have some thunderers or hammerers thats just my opinion though.

Overall a good list considering your new to dwarfs.

bennyboy6189 wrote:I would swap a cannon for a grudgethrower as now our cannons are d6 wounds, and the grudgethrower will help take out big blocks.

Im not a big fan of miners i would rather have some thunderers or hammerers thats just my opinion though.

Overall a good list considering your new to dwarfs.

Are miners bad or is it just a personal preference? I just like the idea of tossing dynomite into my foe as they charge headlong into me lol. Good idea with the grudgethrower! I modified the list to reflect the change

While I completely understand the attraction of miners and the blasting charges (I keep trying to find ways to fit them in myself), they may be out of place in this list.

At this points level, it's a pretty significant chunk of your points that will be charging in Turn 3 at the very earliest. I think they gain a lot if an anvil is present, but otherwise suffer from a couple things.

To be effective I feel like the unit needs to be substantial, but once it's substantial, it may not be viable to have that many points not showing up till later in the game.

I'd love to be proved wrong on this, and maybe you can do it. Those are just my thoughts early in 8th edition.

RZ

Red_Zeke wrote:While I completely understand the attraction of miners and the blasting charges (I keep trying to find ways to fit them in myself), they may be out of place in this list.

At this points level, it's a pretty significant chunk of your points that will be charging in Turn 3 at the very earliest. I think they gain a lot if an anvil is present, but otherwise suffer from a couple things.

To be effective I feel like the unit needs to be substantial, but once it's substantial, it may not be viable to have that many points not showing up till later in the game.

I'd love to be proved wrong on this, and maybe you can do it. Those are just my thoughts early in 8th edition.

RZ

Well great thoughts, and you obviously know a lot about what to do with dwarves! However... doesn't solve the conundrum; cut em for something else? if so, what would you suggest? I just like the fluff of the unit, and being new to fantasy, I don't know whats good and whats not for the most part lol!

Depends on what sort of list your going for, do you want an elite close combat dwarf army like red zeke or would you rather have more of a gunline?

I would drop the miners and get 18/19 hammerers with full command and shields they have a better armour save ws/strength just overall alot better and put your thane in there.

I would also recommend a rune of penetrating on the grudgethrower if you can free up the points.

You need some Anti magic. Even if its just a basic hero with a great-weapon and a single spellbreaker rune. Also consider making your thane a battle standard bearer. With all leadership checks near it rerollable you wont have to worry about any of your dwarfs bottling it and running when they're inevitably outnumbered. Otherwise it looks like a pretty solid lower point list. Miners are fine if you dont mind the randomness. Though 8-10 can do the job just fine at this level of hunting warmachines and getting the odd rear charge off. Then you might afford a unit of handgunners or quarrelers. Which are very good choices. For stuff to buy for bigger points. Try More warriors with handweapon/shield, Ironbreakers. Slayers if it takes your fancy. Also a slayer character for the unit is good. In 8th slayers got much better with the charge rules. As they can more likely get a successful charge in now. And when they hit they hit hard. Also a bolt thrower and possibly a second organ gun wouldn't be bad choices either. Just sit a pair on one flank and watch as they dominate that part of your lines. Or use them to protect your other artillery. Infantry supported by a few artillery pieces works well this edition. And is a lot more fun for both players than a static gun line anyway.

Best of luck and welcome to Fantasy.

Lexx wrote:You need some Anti magic. Even if its just a basic hero with a great-weapon and a single spellbreaker rune. Also consider making your thane a battle standard bearer. With all leadership checks near it rerollable you wont have to worry about any of your dwarfs bottling it and running when they're inevitably outnumbered. Otherwise it looks like a pretty solid lower point list. Miners are fine if you dont mind the randomness. Though 8-10 can do the job just fine at this level of hunting warmachines and getting the odd rear charge off. Then you might afford a unit of handgunners or quarrelers. Which are very good choices. For stuff to buy for bigger points. Try More warriors with handweapon/shield, Ironbreakers. Slayers if it takes your fancy. Also a slayer character for the unit is good. In 8th slayers got much better with the charge rules. As they can more likely get a successful charge in now. And when they hit they hit hard. Also a bolt thrower and possibly a second organ gun wouldn't be bad choices either. Just sit a pair on one flank and watch as they dominate that part of your lines. Or use them to protect your other artillery. Infantry supported by a few artillery pieces works well this edition. And is a lot more fun for both players than a static gun line anyway.

Best of luck and welcome to Fantasy.

Well I don't have the 8th ed rule book (yet), just the 7th ed... did they change how force orgs work? in 7th it says only 1 special below 2k

Force org is totally re-jiggered. it's all based off of percentages now- minimum 25% core, maximum 25% Lords, 25% Heroes, 50% Special, and 25% Rare. Maximum of three of the same kind of special and two of the same kind of rare.

If you really like the miners, you *could* keep them in as is. Then for each game, consider whether you need them in the main battle line, or whether you can afford to have them come from off table. You've only spent one point per model, on top of what a warrior with heavy armor and great weapon would cost. Plus, they can carry your blasting charges.

Just a thought on how to keep them in to satisfy your fluff itch, but retain some flexibility depending on opponents.

RZ

Thanks zeke, I'm taking my 'dex with me to work tonight and I'll see what I can do to rework the list some. I'm thinking maybe replace the Miners with some handgunners and maybe a runepriest (for extra magic defense).

You could also consider just swapping them out for great weapon warriors. I feel like your war machines should be able to lay some good hurt on the enemy. You'll have a similar unit, but an extra 50 points to spend (1 point less per model, plus the savings on the charges). If you wanted to make things simple, you could reinvest right back in to the same unit and add another 5 GW warriors.

I wouldn't worry *too* much about extra magic defense. I may be wrong here, but at your points level, the dwarven +2 should do OK. I only take one runesmith with a pair of spellbreakers at 2500 and, while not perfect, he's done well enough. I don't know that you'd need him at lower levels.

For some reason I didn't comment on your thane, though I meant to. I think his build could be better, though I may not be accounting for 8th edition's intricacies. My thought is that you'd gett better value from a MR of Gromril and a rune of resistance. Either that, or change the rune of resistance for a MR of Gromril. Re-rolling a 4+ save isn't the greatest in the world- as soon as modifiers come in to the picture, you're re-rolling a 5 or 6 which isn't too good.

Okay, that'll do it for now. As I always say- no better test for a list than playing...

RZ

Red_Zeke wrote:You could also consider just swapping them out for great weapon warriors. I feel like your war machines should be able to lay some good hurt on the enemy. You'll have a similar unit, but an extra 50 points to spend (1 point less per model, plus the savings on the charges). If you wanted to make things simple, you could reinvest right back in to the same unit and add another 5 GW warriors.

I wouldn't worry *too* much about extra magic defense. I may be wrong here, but at your points level, the dwarven +2 should do OK. I only take one runesmith with a pair of spellbreakers at 2500 and, while not perfect, he's done well enough. I don't know that you'd need him at lower levels.

For some reason I didn't comment on your thane, though I meant to. I think his build could be better, though I may not be accounting for 8th edition's intricacies. My thought is that you'd gett better value from a MR of Gromril and a rune of resistance. Either that, or change the rune of resistance for a MR of Gromril. Re-rolling a 4+ save isn't the greatest in the world- as soon as modifiers come in to the picture, you're re-rolling a 5 or 6 which isn't too good.

Okay, that'll do it for now. As I always say- no better test for a list than playing...

RZ

I agree completely!... issue is this list is going to be the basis for what I buy to get into Fantasy haha. So, I looked things over, and figured out a new list. So here goes!

HQ
----
Thane - GW, Rune of Spite, Master Rune of Swiftness, Rune of Stone - 144 pts

Troops
--------
20x Warriors
- Full Command
- Shields

205 pts

20x warriors
- Full Command
- Great Weapons
- Longbeards

285 pts

Special
---------
15x Ironbreakers
- Banner w/ Rune of Courage
- Full command

255 pts

Cannon - Rune of Fire, Engineer - 110 pts

Grudgethrower - Rune of Piercing, Engineer - 120 pts

Rare
------
Organ Gun - 120 pts

Total: 1239 pts

A little spare to beef up here and there. The overall plan is to have the Ironbreakers as a huge unbreakable rock to lock stuff up that gets too close. Guns whittle things down, longbeards countercharge, and warriors create a shieldwall. Hows that look?

The plan should work great, unless the enemy has more warmachines than you.
Then you get outshot.

Pretty nice, but here's some things I'd change:

MR of Swiftness on it's own isn't going to have a ton of impact. You're counting on the thane being survivable anyway, so just give him a mundane great weapon. It'll work better in 90% of the situations he's in.

Rune of Courage used to be almost mandatory on dwarf elites, but since fear and terror don't autobreak anymore, you can live without it.

Finally, I'd strongly consider a Rune of Forging on the cannon. The extra reliability is pretty great...

None of those changes really alter what you're buying though, so looks like you ought to be good to go!

RZ

Ok, so played 3 games today (proxying a lot of stuff using a friends goblin models for fillers) and realized the following:

- Goblin Fanatics are friggin good! 1 fanatic killed over 13 models in my ironbreakers unit :(
- Thunderers are great for rearguard! Pivoting to meet the charge then stand and shooting (think I played that right) resulted in a few instances where I knocked a unit low enough not to get steamrolled
- My lord build was pretty terrible. I tried rune of stone, rune of resistance, and rune of cleaving... challanged an orc warboss, and subsequently (due to good rolls on his side), got my arse handed to me
- Gyrocopters are awesome! I think I'll tack one in once I get to 1500+ points level
- Dragon Slayers solo are OK nuisance units. Great to block charges, but not much good otherwise
- Really need to protect my guns, play cannons smarter! Rune of Reloading is awesome as well, I now realize why most people do at least 1 cannon with it (misfired and couldnt use a cannon for 2 turns :( thats 1/3 of a game!)

So, with all this in mind, heres a rework of my previous lists with some knowledge after 3 small games today (1k, 1k, 1.5k):

HQ
----
Thane - GW, Rune of Spite, Rune of Stone - 119 pts

Thane - 65 pts

Troops
--------
20x Warriors
- Full Command
- Shields

205 pts

20x warriors
- Full Command
- Great Weapons
- Longbeards

285 pts

Special
---------
15x Ironbreakers
- Banner w/ Rune of Battle
- Full command

250 pts

Cannon - Rune of Reloading - 100 pts

Grudgethrower - Rune of Piercing - 115 pts

Rare
------
Organ Gun - 120 pts

Total: 1249

Question: Rune of Gromril, does that give the lord a 1+ save? If so... why doesn't anyone use it?! Rune of Gromril w/ Rune of Spite seems to be an awfully powerful combo! And what does MR of Kragg The Grimm even do? The rules confuse me :/

Zid wrote:

Question: Rune of Gromril, does that give the lord a 1+ save? If so... why doesn't anyone use it?! Rune of Gromril w/ Rune of Spite seems to be an awfully powerful combo! And what does MR of Kragg The Grimm even do? The rules confuse me :/

People do use Gromril

usually to protect a Master Rune Priest.

Kragg the Grimm allows a GW to be runified. Other wise GW cannot have runes

Most people don't put MR of Gromril on their Lord choice, because you can get to a 1+ save using shieldbearers and either a shield or Rune of Stone. Both are more expensive, but both take a smaller bite out of your runic allowance and the shieldbearers give some extra attacks, as well as taking up more of the unit frontage with a really tough character*.

All this allows MR of Gromril to go on a BSB or other character.

As far as the Dragonslayer goes, I'm still learning how he fits in to 8th edition. I've had some success with him flank charging an ongoing combat. He's tough enough that he usually doesn't take wounds from the 2 or 3 models that can fight him, often adds a wound or two, and gives a +1 flank, +1 charging bonus. Pretty good deal, generally.

RZ

*This is a good thing if you need extra survivability, not as good if you're displacing hard hitters like hammerers. It's why I've started putting the lord in my hw/shield blocks.

Red_Zeke wrote:Most people don't put MR of Gromril on their Lord choice, because you can get to a 1+ save using shieldbearers and either a shield or Rune of Stone. Both are more expensive, but both take a smaller bite out of your runic allowance and the shieldbearers give some extra attacks, as well as taking up more of the unit frontage with a really tough character*.

All this allows MR of Gromril to go on a BSB or other character.

As far as the Dragonslayer goes, I'm still learning how he fits in to 8th edition. I've had some success with him flank charging an ongoing combat. He's tough enough that he usually doesn't take wounds from the 2 or 3 models that can fight him, often adds a wound or two, and gives a +1 flank, +1 charging bonus. Pretty good deal, generally.

RZ

*This is a good thing if you need extra survivability, not as good if you're displacing hard hitters like hammerers. It's why I've started putting the lord in my hw/shield blocks.

Sounds good! I'm going to start building a 3k points "wish list". I've found doing this is a great way to focus my buying when starting a new army, I learned from my mistakes with my old nids and chaos armies where I purchased one of everything lol!

Any comments on the new list or does it look solid enough?

It looks good, but I'm confused by the second thane with absolutely nothing on. What's going on there?

Also, your points are either off, or I don't understand what you've selected for your grudgethrower's runes. Rune of penetrating? Have you included an engineer?

I think the cannon benefits immensely from a rune of forging- to the extent that I might drop the rune of battle from the ironbreakers in order to fit it in. Being able to use it on the bounce makes sure that it is even more accurate you might expect. Burning might be nice too, to drop hydras, hell-pits and other such tomfoolery.