Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I notice the Battleforce has sunk to an all time low, one tac squad a dread and a commander.

So Smashfether in Terminator Armour can now join that formation and, as he's part of the Assault Squad for all rules purposes, he's allowed to assault turn 1?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So Smashfether in Terminator Armour can now join that formation and, as he's part of the Assault Squad for all rules purposes, he's allowed to assault turn 1?

Yes, but unlike the Assault Squad he can't use his Terminator armour to move, so he might not be able to fight in combat while the rest of the assault squad conga-lines to keep in coherency when they charge if they scatter too far.

Yes, they can move after they deep strike with their jump packs.

Yes, they can re-roll charge distance with their jump packs when they charge.

And yes, they still can get to you if they scatter 12".

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So Smashfether in Terminator Armour can now join that formation and, as he's part of the Assault Squad for all rules purposes, he's allowed to assault turn 1?

Yes, but unlike the Assault Squad he can't use his Terminator armour to move, so he might not be able to fight in combat while the rest of the assault squad conga-lines to keep in coherency when they charge if they scatter too far.

Yes, they can move after they deep strike with their jump packs.

Yes, they can re-roll charge distance with their jump packs when they charge.

And yes, they still can get to you if they scatter 12".

Just realized that Jump Packs is a thing for HQs too. Now I feel silly.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So Smashfether in Terminator Armour can now join that formation and, as he's part of the Assault Squad for all rules purposes, he's allowed to assault turn 1?

Yes, but unlike the Assault Squad he can't use his Terminator armour to move, so he might not be able to fight in combat while the rest of the assault squad conga-lines to keep in coherency when they charge if they scatter too far.

Yes, they can move after they deep strike with their jump packs.

Yes, they can re-roll charge distance with their jump packs when they charge.

And yes, they still can get to you if they scatter 12".

Oh, feth, I didn't think of that. This formation is ludicrous. You can pick a very expensive shooting unit and shoot at them with grav cannons. Not dead? Take a pinning test. Failed? Well, you've gone to ground. Pass? You're going to be ripped apart by [MOD EDIT - Language! And ultimately you're responsible for the content of your posts - don't count on the expeltive filter to catch everything, because it doesn't! Alpharius] and the assault marines, and you can't even overwatch against them.

I have a feeling the next edition will be mostly undoing all the damage GW is doing to 40k now.

What is with this absurd obsession with the past and this mythical 'correct' way 40k is meant to be played?

If you like playing 5th or 4th or 3rd edition, go find people to play it with you. It's a lot cheaper.

Change is good. It keeps the game interesting. It forces the meta to change. It forces new strategies and armies and ideas.

If you want a balanced ruleset with finely tuned, periodic competitive tweaks switch to X-Wing or Armada or League of Legends.

40k is what it is. A constantly evolving, multi-headed hydra of absurdity, a sprawling meta-game of arcane knowledge as confusing, eldritch and byzantine as the universe in which it is set.

Like life in the Imperium of Man, Two things are certain: 40k is going to be unfair. And GW is vastly uncaring.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
What is with this absurd obsession with the past and this mythical way 40k is meant to be played?

If you like playing 5th or 4th or 3rd edition, go find people to play it with you. It's a lot cheaper.

Change is good. It keeps the game interesting. It forces the meta to change. It forces new strategies and armies and ideas.

If you want a balanced ruleset with finely tuned, periodic competitive tweaks switch to X-Wing or Armada or League of Legends.

40k is what it is. A constantly evolving, multi-headed hydra of absurdity, a sprawling meta-game of arcane knowledge as confusing, eldritch and byzantine as the Imperium of Man in which it is set.

Change is good, but that doesn't mean that GW needs to bring out formations allowing marine players to table you turn 1. Seriously, a list with multiple copies of this formation would be horrible. Thank goodness most places don't allow more than 1 copy of each.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
What is with this absurd obsession with the past and this mythical way 40k is meant to be played?

If you like playing 5th or 4th or 3rd edition, go find people to play it with you. It's a lot cheaper.

Change is good. It keeps the game interesting. It forces the meta to change. It forces new strategies and armies and ideas.

If you want a balanced ruleset with finely tuned, periodic competitive tweaks switch to X-Wing or Armada or League of Legends.

40k is what it is. A constantly evolving, multi-headed hydra of absurdity, a sprawling meta-game of arcane knowledge as confusing, eldritch and byzantine as the Imperium of Man in which it is set.

This post should be added in large type to this site's banner forever.

40k has always sucked as a game. We as players just assumed GW was incompetent at rules design. So people griped but continued to play. Now GW is just phoning it in with bad decision making to move product. The short term gain mentality will kill 40k. How many people are going to invest in a game when the outcome is determined at army purchase? Why invest my time and money in a game that really isn't a game anymore?

Everyone should be exalting the feth out of asmodai's post.

I find it best not to encourage delusional people.

All his post is a another variation of shut up and GTFO.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I find it best not to encourage delusional people.

All his post is a another variation of shut up and GTFO.

What's so delusional about acknowledging the reality of what 40k is?

You and I know it's not going to change or could ever be the perfectly accurate and balanced grimdark wargame that so many fans imagine it deserves to be.

Why not accept it for what it is and enjoy it?

I also realise it's a form of schadenfreude to constantly hate on the game and GW while continuing to play it. It releases stress, beats an uncaring strawman, no one gets
hurt or annoyed except other forum goers. Negativity has its purposes too at times, but only when logically directed.

A new Codex already? Oh, piss off. Money grubbing leeches.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I find it best not to encourage delusional people.

All his post is a another variation of shut up and GTFO.

What's so delusional about acknowledging the reality of what 40k is?

A largely unbalanced piece of junk? Not to say you can't have fun with it, mind you. It's still undeniably bad.

You and I know it's not going to change or could ever be the perfectly accurate and balanced grimdark wargame that so many fans imagine it deserves to be.

I guess it's because people still care. That's why they complain.
The moment people stop caring is the true breaking point. Once they don't complain about it anymore, they are truly lost to GW.

Why not accept it for what it is and enjoy it?

I didn't enjoy the game evolved and so I stopped playing in early 5th. "But Korraz, why don't you just find people that play 4th or 3rd if that's what you liked?" Because there aren't any around and it's too much work to build a new group or locate the few oddballs scattered about. I simply do not care enough, I prefer to spend my time with things that are more fun to me.

People need to realize that while someone is still complaining, he still cares. Things can still turn around and GW can become the champion of hearts again while people still care enough about them to voice their opinion. Demanding silence is practically calling for GW's demise to come even quicker.

Delakar wrote:
A new Codex already? Oh, piss off. Money grubbing leeches.

Played the game since 3rd edition. People used to complain constantly about how long it took to update codexs. Now people complain about how quickly they do it. Can't make everyone happy. I don't see it as expensive at all, but I only play a few different armies, one of whom is all but forgotten by GW (SOB) and I'd love if they got updates they my other armies (DA/SM and Eldar) did. Sure, I could easily criticize the way they go about things, but I don't mind them updating books every 2 years one single bit.

Yes. Ork players used to complain. Dark Eldar players used to complain, Sisters of Battle players complain. Because they waited 13 years for a new book.
Space Marine players, however, did not. At least not about the frequency. No Space Marine player said "Gee, I'd sure like to have a new book for 40-50 bucks every two years!"

 Korraz wrote:
Yes. Ork players used to complain. Dark Eldar players used to complain, Sisters of Battle players complain. Because they waited 13 years for a new book.
Space Marine players, however, did not. At least not about the frequency. No Space Marine player said "Gee, I'd sure like to have a new book for 40-50 bucks every two years!"

I've had a SM army for over 17 years. I've heard plenty of complaining in that time. Guess I, and the people around me, just don't see 40-50 dollars every 2 years as significant in any way. Different player bases I guess. Not putting down anyone who feels differently, just saying that there's people who obviously feel differently on the matter.

 Korraz wrote:

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I find it best not to encourage delusional people.

All his post is a another variation of shut up and GTFO.

What's so delusional about acknowledging the reality of what 40k is?

A largely unbalanced piece of junk? Not to say you can't have fun with it, mind you. It's still undeniably bad.

You and I know it's not going to change or could ever be the perfectly accurate and balanced grimdark wargame that so many fans imagine it deserves to be.

I guess it's because people still care. That's why they complain.
The moment people stop caring is the true breaking point. Once they don't complain about it anymore, they are truly lost to GW.

Why not accept it for what it is and enjoy it?

I didn't enjoy the game evolved and so I stopped playing in early 5th. "But Korraz, why don't you just find people that play 4th or 3rd if that's what you liked?" Because there aren't any around and it's too much work to build a new group or locate the few oddballs scattered about. I simply do not care enough, I prefer to spend my time with things that are more fun to me.

People need to realize that while someone is still complaining, he still cares. Things can still turn around and GW can become the champion of hearts again while people still care enough about them to voice their opinion. Demanding silence is practically calling for GW's demise to come even quicker.

Well said. The response I was typing out was far more emotional and less well thought out than Korraz's.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So Smashfether in Terminator Armour can now join that formation and, as he's part of the Assault Squad for all rules purposes, he's allowed to assault turn 1?

"Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

All the fancy stuff surrounding the formation are special rules.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
What is with this absurd obsession with the past and this mythical 'correct' way 40k is meant to be played?

If you like playing 5th or 4th or 3rd edition, go find people to play it with you. It's a lot cheaper.

Change is good. It keeps the game interesting. It forces the meta to change. It forces new strategies and armies and ideas.

If you want a balanced ruleset with finely tuned, periodic competitive tweaks switch to X-Wing or Armada or League of Legends.

40k is what it is. A constantly evolving, multi-headed hydra of absurdity, a sprawling meta-game of arcane knowledge as confusing, eldritch and byzantine as the universe in which it is set.

Like life in the Imperium of Man, Two things are certain: 40k is going to be unfair. And GW is vastly uncaring.

This is a nail and you hit it on the head! Great quote Asmodai Asmodean.. And the right attitude to have. I play the game to have fun, and I love all of the different formations. That being said if I play a power hungry D*ck, I will gladly inform them at the end of the game. And the next time they come around for a game I will let them know I can pass on "their version of 40k/ aka the right way to play".

So you'll confront someone for playing by the rules?

Because that, despite what you may have intended to say, is what you've said.

There should never be this sort of discussion in relation to the game, the difference between competitive and casual should largely be down to attitude, not army choice.

Korraz has the right of it - people complain because they care, taking the stance of "suck it up or feth off" that people agreeing with that post are taking is fine, but don't expect much sympathy when you're complaining that you can't find anyone to play your multi-headed hydra of absurdity.

Formations are cancerous to this game, full stop. 40k was more enjoyable when it wasn't apoc.

Take the formation talk elsewhere please. There are threads discussing it.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So Smashfether in Terminator Armour can now join that formation and, as he's part of the Assault Squad for all rules purposes, he's allowed to assault turn 1?

Yes, but unlike the Assault Squad he can't use his Terminator armour to move, so he might not be able to fight in combat while the rest of the assault squad conga-lines to keep in coherency when they charge if they scatter too far.

Yes, they can move after they deep strike with their jump packs.

Yes, they can re-roll charge distance with their jump packs when they charge.

And yes, they still can get to you if they scatter 12".

Emphasis mine. The deep strike rule states a model cannot move further (except run moves). The formation allows them to charge only. The formation does allows them to use the jump packs in the subsequent movement and assault phases (similar to RG chapter tactics) instead of one or the other.

 Death By Monkeys wrote:
Since I posted that, I've been giving some though to what you could do with it. Sure, everyone's high on Grav Devs right now, but what about taking advantage of Relentless and dropping MM Devs? Make 'em Imperial Fists. Want to kill a Knight or two first turn? Combat squad them for taking out a higher number of transports and/or light tanks. Run them as Salamanders with Vulkan to twin-link those MM's. Run it in a Raptors army with Lias Issodon so you get the first strike with those, plus Issodon hitting units prior to Turn 1.

It also got me thinking, not only is this a good ruse for GW to sell Dev Squads. It's also a good way to sell Stalkers and other Interceptor models.

You can't get Vulkans buff for this formation. His special rule only apply to his Detachment and there is now way to get him in the same Detachment and the Gladius Detachment is locked to only the formations in the codex.

 -Shrike- wrote:

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So Smashfether in Terminator Armour can now join that formation and, as he's part of the Assault Squad for all rules purposes, he's allowed to assault turn 1?

Yes, but unlike the Assault Squad he can't use his Terminator armour to move, so he might not be able to fight in combat while the rest of the assault squad conga-lines to keep in coherency when they charge if they scatter too far.

Yes, they can move after they deep strike with their jump packs.

Yes, they can re-roll charge distance with their jump packs when they charge.

And yes, they still can get to you if they scatter 12".

Oh, feth, I didn't think of that. This formation is ludicrous. You can pick a very expensive shooting unit and shoot at them with grav cannons. Not dead? Take a pinning test. Failed? Well, you've gone to ground. Pass? You're going to be ripped apart by smashfucker and the assault marines, and you can't even overwatch against them.

Also, let's not forget that you can combat squad the devastators, so you can shoot all the big guns at something you really want dead, and then shoot all the bolter marines at something you want pinned. That's four units either dead or pinned (with even LD 10 failing 50% of the time).

WindsOfFury wrote:

 Death By Monkeys wrote:
Since I posted that, I've been giving some though to what you could do with it. Sure, everyone's high on Grav Devs right now, but what about taking advantage of Relentless and dropping MM Devs? Make 'em Imperial Fists. Want to kill a Knight or two first turn? Combat squad them for taking out a higher number of transports and/or light tanks. Run them as Salamanders with Vulkan to twin-link those MM's. Run it in a Raptors army with Lias Issodon so you get the first strike with those, plus Issodon hitting units prior to Turn 1.

It also got me thinking, not only is this a good ruse for GW to sell Dev Squads. It's also a good way to sell Stalkers and other Interceptor models.

You can't get Vulkans buff for this formation. His special rule only apply to his Detachment and there is now way to get him in the same Detachment and the Gladius Detachment is locked to only the formations in the codex.

Yup, that is a major bummer. The codex explicitly states only the datasheets listed in the book can be used in the Gladius Strike Force. Kinda lame, but thems the brakes.

Codex is out now anyways so we can probably lock this thread and carry on the various discussions elsewhere??

Wowee!

Remember if you see a corpse... just ring your dethbell!

Just had a look at that new Chapbrarian in termie armour.

Why is he $40? Does the chaplain know the new libby is using his crozius?