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After playing multiple games without a single sharpshooter in my IG force, I decided to use a SW squad equipped with three. I declared that I was shooting at my friend's warboss with all of my sniper's shots. Let's just say the argument that followed was grueling
So I have come up with a rule that should at least make snipers not as useless as they are and add a bit of realism into their somewhat ridiculous stats.

Snipers should be able to pick out individual models even if they are in a sizable unit as long as they have LoS to the model.

I say this because although snipers are Rending and cause pinning tests, its still not that effective and quite frankly a bit silly how GW made them look.
Think about it: a sniper/ranger/assassin has gone through all of the training to pick off the largest and most dangerous threat that is in front of them. The way that GW portrays them as just running around shooting at whatever moves and isn't friendly
You could have snipers in HW squads and they could be Heavy 1, showing that they need to set up and scope in on their target, just so-long as they can pick off whatever they deem dangerous. And instead of their BS being a measly 3 (IG only?) it would be at least a 4; maybe 5.

Opinions?

Not necessarily. Most of the time, everyone is moving around. Waiting for that one clear shot is not an effective use of time. Other parts of the squad are going to be moving about in their LoS. Staying in one spot and waiting for the shot is going to earn your and your squad the golden vindicator shell award for stupidity.

The "snipers should be better" idea comes up alot...

Sharpshooters are not assassins, they dont get given specific targets, their job is to cause fear and uncertainty by firing from a concealed position, forcing the enemy to take cover (represented by the pinning test)

No way, this is a special ability of the Vindicare Assassin. Don't give it to every bloke with a scope.

This problem has been debated in this forum before. The assumption that everybody with a sniper rifle is a sniper is a poor assumption to make. Ratlings are snipers, and that is reflected by their increased ballistic skill. Scouts with sniper rifles are still just Scouts, the scope and other accuracy enhancing parts of their weapons don't affect how well they manage to hold the rifle steady and are able to deliver shots to the weakest points of the enemy, all with artillery and gunfire going of around them and alien hordes or heretic forces advancing on their position. The Vindicare is a true sniper/assassin, and this is reflected by his ballistic skill of 5 and his ability to pick out targets. A Scout sniper is a scout marine before a sniper, and as a marine is equally proficient with all weapons. He's not an exceptional marksmen, he's just a scout who has been handed a rifle.

Also, remember that the table top is an abstraction. On a real battlefield, the vast majority of shots don't hit, and most of the troops are firing at each other at much greater distances than are shown in the game. However, this would result in parking lots and gymnasiums being the popular choice for regular games, and then football stadiums for Apocalypse.

Picking out a target amongst a large group of encroaching enemies is harder than it sounds. Certain members of the squad could easily be obscured by cover that litters the battlefield, smoke launchers are going off and then causing clouds of the stuff to drift around and impair accuracy, and then you might have a battlecannon shot coming from a traitor guardsman's Leman Russ that takes out a good part of your group and nearly collapses the building on you. With so much firepower on the battlefield, a person with a sniper rifle needs to take as many shots as possible in order to make themselves useful as there is a good chance that they will be rooted out and kill by the enemy soon. If that means taking less than ideal shots and not being able to pick out enemies, it's better than waiting for that shot at the enemy officer and then failing due to poor scope adjustments.

I agree with everything that MarkingLight said. In truth, units of snipers are rarely (if ever) employed by modern military the way 40K protrays them and typically operate independantly in conjunction with tactical units, i.e. a sniper is a soldier in a unit that covers an area from an advantageous, concealed position to suppress enemy advance and allow the unit to move under cover fire.

Snipers are also used to dispatch minefields, vehicles, and munitions, but typically use large caliber rifles to do so and operate in teams - more akin to an IG lascannon team.

IIRC, I believe that weapons with the Sniper rule in 4th edition hit on a certain number instead of being determined by the firer's BS (which was used for other weapons the model carried), just like they wound on a 4+, representing the fact that sniper weapons were inherently more accurate than small arms and smg fire. However, as stated above, it's the experience and training of the firer that allow them to take advantage of the weapon's "superior quality".

In reality, sniper rifles are moderately more accurate than assault rifles, tending to produce tighter shot spread rather than pinpoint targeting. Of course, who needs reality in 40K?

There is a thing called a Designated Marksmen that is usually included in Marine Force Scout Recon squads, and incommonly throughout the rest of the military.

It is as it is called, a member of the fireteam is designated a Marksmen and has either a Semi-Automatic Sniper-Rifle or an Assault-Rifle with a magnified scope. He is supposed to give off fast, accurate shots off at medium to long range.

That is basically what the weapons are used as in Warhammer 40,000, they are not Sniper Extraordinares like the Vindicare, and he is more of an actual sniper.

Sniper teams have been included in the game a couple times. One in particular is in the Elysian Army List included in Imperial Armor 4 : The Anphelion Project.


Ah I forgot to add, the closest thing the guards have to a sniper team would be the special weapons squad.
You can give them 3 sniper rifles, giving you 3 spotters and 3 "snipers".

I feel stupid after all of these rational responses

NO NO NO! The reason they don't have that rule is cause the HQ would die in turn two.
Also you can just get Scout Sgt. Telion. Oh sorry you dont play SM...

grayspark wrote:
You can give them 3 sniper rifles, giving you 3 spotters and 3 "snipers".

LAWL. Loving that idea. Though they would still struggle to hit the broadside of a football stadium.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:

grayspark wrote:
You can give them 3 sniper rifles, giving you 3 spotters and 3 "snipers".

LAWL. Loving that idea. Though they would still struggle to hit the broadside of a football stadium.

Even though I've caused many deaths to monstrous creatures with the 8% chance that you HIT then RENDER the target, I realize that there are better options.
Its true Guardsmen snipers are the laughing stock of my army, (unless they are put in a Vet squad (but then again I would rather take meltas or plasma)), although after reading this;
http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2010/01/why-snipers-arent-competitive.html
I have changed my tactics completely. It still would be interesting to see snipers at least wound on a 2+. Makes sense using ballistic skill as same shooter, but once that shot hits home it should be like a head shot or aiming for something particular. With 2+ to wound sniper rifles would be feared. IDK

I think that the chance to wound should equal the chance to hit, representing that the more focused, trained, and accurate the sniper is, the more chance he has to wound.

grayspark wrote:I think that the chance to wound should equal the chance to hit, representing that the more focused, trained, and accurate the sniper is, the more chance he has to wound.

Hmm.. the vindicare looks much much more promising now... a chance to do 2 wounds on a 2+ or just ignore invul, cover. and armor saves? Hello!

I despise how useless the Vindicare is.

The only time he's ever been useful, was when I wasn't using him, and it didn't effect the game because he died next turn from an Assault Cannon and then my friend's army was overrun by Death Company.

He killed a single Sanguinary Priest.

My memory might be failing but he actually might not have wounded even.

It's strange that GW even included rules for Snipers if they were going to make them that useless.

I just think it's ridiculous that GW thinks it's a good idea to make an army's worst shots into snipers. Yes, let's give a gun which only performs well when given to a superb shot to a rookie.

That only happens to Marines. Guard has it right, with Ratling Snipers.

Even ratlings aren't that great.
For the points, it does make sense that they are not amazing, but its still only a 33% chance that you will hit then wound a target with 5 shots from them.
Personally, for 5 extra points, I would take an Infantry squad w/ a GL, b/c blast templates are more reliable w/ a lower BS

Tell you what, you can hit and wound on a 2+, but you get 1 shot a game... on turn 5. Because that's how long it took you to line up your awesome shot.

Don't forget that armor saves and cover saves can not be taken. He took a day to line up a shot and it better hit.

I've actually found Ratling Snipers to be very good. For their point cost, you get a unit that can pin low Ld units and do a lot of damage to monstrous creatures, and they're pretty hard to move if you put them in cover.

I'd at least take a five-man squad, if you have an elite slot to spare, and aren't trying to minimize the number of Kill Points in your army.

Dont forget the psyker battle squad that you'll inevitably bring.

I've never seen Ratlings used at my Local Store.

Those Elite slots are inevitably taken up by Psyker Battle Squads, usually 2 or 3 of them.

That seems like overkill.

It represents the natural progress of battle. They shouldn't really be able to pick out individual models. Unless of course they're bright red in a blue army...

IMO, a battle is probably only a couple minutes long in real time, so we should be happy to have something like snipers be able to shoot more than once per game.

Well what about models that are obviously different from others, like a sergeant with his bright, different color helmet or a guy with a heavy weapon. The special is alright since from the distance a sniper is shooting at, it shouldn't look THAT much different then a bolter.

IMO, a battle is probably only a couple minutes long in real time, so we should be happy to have something like snipers be able to shoot more than once per game.

The time a battle takes is highly subject to change, as it describes in the rulebook that the reason infantry only move 6 inches is because they're moving forward slowly and scanning the terrain, this might make sense for a Cities of Death game, but if the battle is happening in an open field, then it's obviously going to be finishing soon.

Dont know about guard, but ive had no end of fun with marine marine scout snipers.

3 units of 10 seems a tad much, but they get the job done well.
Make great units for picking off MC's early on.