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Heya folks,

I used to attend GT's pretty avidly, between GW and Indy's, and eventually found myself soured to the entire process. I saw and experienced too many events of people working together and slamming other players comp and sports, or any score they got to control, to collude and give their group an edge. Saw too many semi-shady TO moments of favoritism, etc. Heck, I brought the old guard book to a GT a couple years back and was "judge comped" in with the hardest bracket and ended up playing Nidzilla x 2, Demonzilla x 1, and Dual lash (when it was good). After enough bad experiences (esp. with comp and sports scores) I just stopped attending. I never felt like I actually had a fair shot. I always felt like going to play competitively and win was a pointless endeavor, because inevitably, their was some sort of system in place that would 'game it' out of my hands, would present a 'gotcha' moment with scenarios, and so on and so forth.

Recently, I nearly just quit 40k altogether as without the tournaments, the competitive side of me just turned to MTG. It has a clear rule system, good judging, and I feel like I control whether I win or lose. Maybe I lose because of bad cards at times, or not being able to afford the best deck, but I still feel that I am the "master of my fate" so to speak. Then, I got roped into considering the NOVA Open by some friends, read extensively, liked what I saw and attended. I had the absolute best 40k experience I've had, ever. Because of it, I find myself with the 40k "bug" again.

**** mid post disclaimer **** this is not meant to devolve into any sort of "Nova Open" debate, or what the"right way" to run a GT is, I found the NOVA to be the best event and format for me and that is all I'm saying **** mid post disclaimer ****

So, on that note, I'm having a lot of trouble finding GT's that are geared more in the fashion that the Nova Open was on the East Coast (which I realize is pathetic on my part, since we have most of the Indy's!). I live right outside College Park, Md. I'm willing to drive a good distance, although I am looking to avoid flying for the time being. Long as its within 6-7 hours though, I'm probably game.

Just as another reminder...don't let this devolve into a "what format is bestest" shouting match, I just want to find the GT's that are right for me and avoid those that aren't.

Any suggestions?

MECHANICON!

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/

I think it is right down the road from you.

Each event is different, that is what really makes the circuit great.

Yeah, for a Washington DC person, Mechanicon is the only other larger format tourney in an easy drive.

DaBoyzGt in NY is also a good one, except it is 'soft city' in the way the old GW GTs were so it sounds like you wouldn't go for it. I find larger Tourneys have less issues with the home turf chipmunking so it is always worth a go. Rochester is not a terrible drive from our area either.

Other than those and the NOVA, there are still a good number of RTT one-day tourneys that float around this area. Check out some of the clubs like ironfists, FAIL gamers and inner circle as they all run tourneys in your area. Also the GW battle Bunker in Glen Burnie is a decent location for events so keep tabs on their calendar.

Almost every tourney run today has 'best general' awards which is what you sound like you are interested in, even the soft score ones. If you can easily accept others play differently, then you can attend pretty much every event regardless of how it is and be happy gunning for 'best general' which is almost always a substantial honor and prize.

I just looked into mechanicon, the only reservation I have is that..well...I can't really seem to find any information on it.

All I can seem to find is the points value/etc, not the format specifics except the stuff from 2009.

The 2009 packet includes player scored sports (scored on a 0-10 for each opponent I believe, which allows score dinging) and I think (although I may just be misreading the packet?) other player scored sections.

I'm just a bit squeamish with those player scored portions, as even at larger events, I've never seem them end well.

@ nkelsch

I'm not generally one to gun for best general actually, I typically go for best overall (I took 4th in Ren. man at NOVA). I more enjoy the hobby as a whole than anything else, I just don't like having other players game me out of a good time. If an event leaves that opening, then I'll generally pass on it.

But best overall at soft score events (such as Da Boyz GT from reading their packet) includes large amounts that are player scored. I hate the chance that a guy can be sour after losing and just ding my sports. I hate thinking that a panel of judges (many of which probably don't play 40k half as much as me or for half as long) will somehow decide a large portion of my score based on their "feeling" of my list. Lastly, events with the 0-10 sports I've found have a whole heck of a lot of guys that are acting so fakely nice that its painful, I'm not an idiot, I can tell
when someone is trying to schmooze me, and its just obnoxious. Also, I refuse to schmooze, I just like to have fun naturally and not have to artificially boost it to get the points necessary to compete for best overall. Its not how everyone feels, but its how I do on the matter.

Anyone have any links to 2010 details for mechanicon? Their mission system seemed different and weird (in a good way) and actually looked like fun, I just worry about the details of the rest of it. At 125 dollars + travel, I want to be sure!

Also, I might just be a bit special, but can you link me to the Glen Burnie battle bunker calendar? I'm totally whiffin on finding it

Rich and Vinny got all their info from me, since I attended last year. They're both planning on going, and I highly reccomend you do too. It is probably the 2nd best GT I've ever attended, 1st being NOVA.

What, I don't get any love? Send me some info!

How about I give Shana all the info than you can call her

If i steal your girl away I'll end up with you jumping me in the parking lot, I don't want to tempt that fate!

So, any other GT's or events locally people know of? I just transplanted to Md about 2 weeks ago btw, so Im missing a lot of things I think.

Unfortunately, I just crossed Mechanicon off the calendar. Its an extreme drive, flight and I already have my golden ticket....

And while 40k trivia might be fun, I don't like the idea that my ability to answer fluff questions about the 40k universe is going to influence my tournament score. Having been to multiple GTs now both with and without sportsmanship scoring, I DEFINITELY feel like sportsmanship scoring increases stress, leads to gaming the system, and ultimately lends itself to a worse experience.

I think Mike Clark and Mike Brandt are both on to somethere here with their GT formats - it isn't unreasonable to expect people in a GT to act like adults, and if they can't - there are large people to escort them out.

OP: There may be a small GT in Raleigh, NC for you to explore called Minicon, although it's probably going to fit into the "soft" category. The guy who runs it has been perma-banned from Dakka, so you'll have to look elsewhere for information about it.

Also look for information about the "Boston Brawl." I don't know much more that could be helpful.

targetawg wrote:
But best overall at soft score events (such as Da Boyz GT from reading their packet) includes large amounts that are player scored. I hate the chance that a guy can be sour after losing and just ding my sports. I hate thinking that a panel of judges (many of which probably don't play 40k half as much as me or for half as long) will somehow decide a large portion of my score based on their "feeling" of my list. Lastly, events with the 0-10 sports I've found have a whole heck of a lot of guys that are acting so fakely nice that its painful, I'm not an idiot, I can tell
when someone is trying to schmooze me, and its just obnoxious. Also, I refuse to schmooze, I just like to have fun naturally and not have to artificially boost it to get the points necessary to compete for best overall. Its not how everyone feels, but its how I do on the matter.:

Really the only player judge scores are sportmanship. We are doing something very similar for our sportsmanship that the Nova open did. We are giving almost a yes and no score for sportsmanship after each round. To give a bad score you really need to be a D.i.c.k (judges are going to be watching this very closely). Then at the end of tournament you will rank each of games (best to worst).

Jay_Daboyz wrote:

targetawg wrote:
But best overall at soft score events (such as Da Boyz GT from reading their packet) includes large amounts that are player scored. I hate the chance that a guy can be sour after losing and just ding my sports. I hate thinking that a panel of judges (many of which probably don't play 40k half as much as me or for half as long) will somehow decide a large portion of my score based on their "feeling" of my list. Lastly, events with the 0-10 sports I've found have a whole heck of a lot of guys that are acting so fakely nice that its painful, I'm not an idiot, I can tell
when someone is trying to schmooze me, and its just obnoxious. Also, I refuse to schmooze, I just like to have fun naturally and not have to artificially boost it to get the points necessary to compete for best overall. Its not how everyone feels, but its how I do on the matter.:

Really the only player judge scores are sportmanship. We are doing something very similar for our sportsmanship that the Nova open did. We are giving almost a yes and no score for sportsmanship after each round. To give a bad score you really need to be a D.i.c.k (judges are going to be watching this very closely). Then at the end of tournament you will rank each of games (best to worst).

Just as an aside, I want to say that I'm sure "Da Boyz GT" is a heck of a lot of fun for those involved and is a good GT, I've never been and my previous post wasn't aimed the least at knocking it. Just for me after reading your packet I cringed a bit because it doesn't really fit what I personally am looking for in a GT. The main things being: list submissions to be "comped" and then suggestions on how to change it. I own a specific guard army I've painted and made a display for, its not leafblower, but it is mech IG which I've ran for years now. I would be pretty ticked (and unwilling to change due to time/money constraints) if I got dinked on my comp and had myself set for an uphill battle to win before I even started just for the army I chose to build/paint years back. From reading the comp, things like multiple choices of the same unit type even are discouraged, and many of those principles are just part of (IMO) good list building and what I like to see and compete against.

The second thing is the sports. The reason I liked NOVA's sports (which is still player scored) was that it felt a bit like universal karma and balance. If an opponent chose to dink me and give me the 1, he had to pump someone else with a high score. So overall, no one could ever really take down peoples sports. In a system that uses player scored I've seen a lot of gaming/spite scoring, and just the act of it all, whether its real or perceived, makes me personally have less fun. I've had a good friend at a GT bring up his sports score to a judge and say "how did I get a 0 on this, I showed up on time, 1 point, i brought all of my things, 1 point, (etc etc) i should have at the least a 6 or 7" To which the judge said "We'll look into it, we're sorry". At the end of the day, he still had to keep that score.

I'll try to pry more information out of folks by going to the Battle Bunker and looking into the ones that have been mentioned in this thread, thanks a bunch for the help guys!

In my experience, there are people who give off a 'stern but professional' attitude that brings stress and tension to the game and puts off lots of casual opponents. They often have no idea they are doing it and sadly no one tells them.

It is not a grand conspiracy to 'game' the event. people legitimately had a stressful or unfun time playing against that person.

We are not at work. Tourneys are not aggressive buisness meetings, Sometimes all it takes is a reminder that we are at a friendly social event, and to lighten up.

Personally, judging yourself to be a great sport and then getting upset that someone else didn't enjoy playing you as much as you enjoyed playing yourself is a sign of poor sportsmanship. If someone didn't enjoy playing you, just brush it off and move on, and if possible take the criticism and change.

I find the people lease worried about sportsmanship scores and least worried about the 'appearance' of being good get the best scores. Genuine good sportsmanship is something you have or your don't. And often those people who claim to have it and get upset over the soft scores really are not good sports or at worst, don't realize they are not a fun person to play against.

You seem so worried about maximizing points before you even show up and are so tied up in winning you sound like you are going to be a stress-filled ball of nerves being highly defensive and on edge all day long as you worry about every possible slight point you may lose at someone else's hand and letting that build up inside you all day.

That type of raincloud is gonna follow you around the event all day and really cause the type of issues you seem to be trying to avoid.

Some people apparently need the scores to be removed before they will 'unclench' and let thier hair down. I think if you just go to have fun and play with your plastic armymen and ignore the soft scores you will find they come out great (and fairly) in the end.

nkelsch wrote:In my experience, there are people who give off a 'stern but professional' attitude that brings stress and tension to the game and puts off lots of casual opponents. They often have no idea they are doing it and sadly no one tells them.

It is not a grand conspiracy to 'game' the event. people legitimately had a stressful or unfun time playing against that person.

We are not at work. Tourneys are not aggressive buisness meetings, Sometimes all it takes is a reminder that we are at a friendly social event, and to lighten up.

Personally, judging yourself to be a great sport and then getting upset that someone else didn't enjoy playing you as much as you enjoyed playing yourself is a sign of poor sportsmanship. If someone didn't enjoy playing you, just brush it off and move on, and if possible take the criticism and change.

I find the people lease worried about sportsmanship scores and least worried about the 'appearance' of being good get the best scores. Genuine good sportsmanship is something you have or your don't. And often those people who claim to have it and get upset over the soft scores really are not good sports or at worst, don't realize they are not a fun person to play against.

You seem so worried about maximizing points before you even show up and are so tied up in winning you sound like you are going to be a stress-filled ball of nerves being highly defensive and on edge all day long as you worry about every possible slight point you may lose at someone else's hand and letting that build up inside you all day.

That type of raincloud is gonna follow you around the event all day and really cause the type of issues you seem to be trying to avoid.

Some people apparently need the scores to be removed before they will 'unclench' and let thier hair down. I think if you just go to have fun and play with your plastic armymen and ignore the soft scores you will find they come out great (and fairly) in the end.

Please try not to make judgments about someone you've never met.

I'm not worried about maximizing points. I'm, as I said, trying to prevent myself from having a bad time by attending an event that features points that I can't fairly earn. In NOVA's system I earned a 4, a 3, and a 3 for my sports. In every tournament I've been to I've earned good sports scores, because I'm an easy going guy I'm guessing. But you know spite scoring when you: A) hear them talking about it with their friends or B) Get all 8-10's on sports and then a 0 from one opponent. This is especcially true in events where sports isn't a 0-10 "feeling" its a 0-10 "checklist" in which you do indeed "earn the points" and your opponent is simply supposed to mark them down.

Please reread the disclaimer above in my original post. I do not want this thread to turn into a debate of how to run a tournament, how to play in a tournament, etc. I purely want answers to a simple question: what are some events that are run in the style I asked for.

targetawg wrote:Please try not to make judgments about someone you've never met.

I was just following your lead. Your comments show you making loads of judgements about hundreds of potential players at tournaments you haven't even attended yet. You are judging that people there will give you poor scores for sportsmanship that are totally undeserved because they are 'gaming' the system or trying to screw people's point totals so they can win more money than you by having higher scores. You haven't even met them! How do you know if thier scores for you are deserved or not? You have already judged anyone everywhere who could potentially give you a bad score as a problem with them and the system by refusing the idea that somehow you could ever be a poor sport or bad opponent and you haven't even played them yet!

Sounds like the only sportsmanship score you will accept is earning scores by having everyone issue max scores before they even meet opponents or play the games. I like that definition of earn.

And eavesdropping on people to see if people are talking about you at a tourney? Really? That is a lot of negativity to carry around an event that is supposed to be fun to be assuming people are talking about you or even 'on guard' to be expecting it.

I don't think you are capable of enjoying any events with any form of player judged scores. So keep an eye out for 'ard boyz events because you can never be held accountable for your own actions at that event. We have a lot of good locations for 'ard boyz so you should be fine.

If all you would like to debate is how you feel I am as a person, my psychological motivations, etc., please do that somewhere else, to yourself, etc.

At this point since you're not contributing to the purpose of the thread and just taking thinly veiled jabs at me, I'll ask you to, unless you have material related to a specific GT event or location, leave the thread.

Let's all NOT try and psychoanalyze each other via the INTERNET, ok?

I mean, for example, what kind of person would pick Alpharius as their screen-name?

We shouldn't even try!

Hey there!

Glad I brought you back to the 40k side of gaming by telling you about the nova!

Mechanicon looks good, but I also will never attend da boyz gt because of the distance and comp... If they lost comp or made it part of a renman thing like nova... Maybe... I just don't like people telling me what I can play.

Conflict gt in january in nanuet is a possibility, but I know you don't like the comp system they use.

Any way the mechanicon is priced steeply... I am interested... But the bps thing they are doing is straight up wacky... Like nick said I will most likely go.

And btw, nice job calling the troll out and keeping your cool! It's like the time you spent teaching in inner city phillie helped you out!

Also... There was talk of an nj open... Straight win loss... If the money is there it may happen

For anyone interested, we're going to be running a NOVA Open format tournament up at the Battle for Salvation in White Plains, NY (20 miles north of NYC).

It's going to be a two-day event with 48 people to start, 64 if we have a waiting list big enough. We're shooting for Columbus day weekend (October 9 - 10). Tickets will be $50--I should have the tournament website up this week (I'm not running it, just helping with some of the administrative stuff).

Hem my aunt lives by nyc maybe i should try and get up there for that tour lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And btw target does earn hs sportmenship games as my game vs him wa the most fun Ive had ever in a game and he was smoking me after turn 2 (I can probaly swear that him killing his own sly marbo turned the game round for him)

@Danny- is that GT going to be offering up some Vegas tickets by any chance?

We'll probably be doing a series of smaller events leading up to the next NOVA, which is going to be more of a full-scale 500+ attendee convention.

The smaller events will probably be 16-32 man single day 4-rounders.

MVBrandt wrote:We'll probably be doing a series of smaller events leading up to the next NOVA, which is going to be more of a full-scale 500+ attendee convention.

The smaller events will probably be 16-32 man single day 4-rounders.

A NOVA centered regular tourney is a good thing for the DC area. It is always good to have some extra single day events.

MVBrandt wrote:We'll probably be doing a series of smaller events leading up to the next NOVA, which is going to be more of a full-scale 500+ attendee convention.

The smaller events will probably be 16-32 man single day 4-rounders.

That sounds awesome, I'd definitely be game for em. Will these be test events, or maybe even act as feeders/satellites to the NOVA? (Top 1-3 players get a NOVA ticket as a prize or something?) It'd be pretty cool if there was enough local interest to run it like a feeder for a poker tournament, 10 dollar buy in, 10 players, winner gets a seat in the 100 dollar tournament the next day sort of thing.

Danny Internets wrote:For anyone interested, we're going to be running a NOVA Open format tournament up at the Battle for Salvation in White Plains, NY (20 miles north of NYC).

It's going to be a two-day event with 48 people to start, 64 if we have a waiting list big enough. We're shooting for Columbus day weekend (October 9 - 10). Tickets will be $50--I should have the tournament website up this week (I'm not running it, just helping with some of the administrative stuff).

I'd be interested in attending, just make sure to post the news up on one of these sites for us to find! As someone else said, will this end up being a Vegas qualifier, or is it too late to get on GW's list for that?

It'll be a NOVA Invitational Qualifier, if nothing else

Come to DaBoyz GT and I'll give you a cookie.

Also it'll be fun.

Remove zee comp system and we'll talk!

Also...what sort of cookie...

I'm doing what I can re: the comp system. Best we can hope for is Best Gen going to BPs only. As silly as the comp rules look on the site, the guys running it are a good sort. PM Jay with any questions re: comp and he should give you a good indicator of where you'll stand.

Sugar Cookies ok? Home made with lots of love <3

Chumbalaya wrote:I'm doing what I can re: the comp system. Best we can hope for is Best Gen going to BPs only. As silly as the comp rules look on the site, the guys running it are a good sort. PM Jay with any questions re: comp and he should give you a good indicator of where you'll stand.

Every single tournament out there has 'comp' still. They just call it something different but it is still COMP. Anything that is an arbitrary rule that forces you to change the way you build your army to best win is COMP.

The only difference between DaBoyz and the supposed 'ard tournaments is comp is built into thier missions and victory requirements. Specific builds and units are not effective due to the arbitrary rules laid out in the mission so it makes people 'compose' thier army differently. Missions that reward Troops? missions that punish deathstars? Missions that force you to take one of each force org slot? Missions that Hurt shooty armies? All sound like arbitrary 'composition' guidelines to me. 'ard boyz this year was the very definition of COMP via thier missions.

I guess if you tell people not to take something they get upset over Comp. Modify the mission so the thing they take is now tactically unsound and they think they made a 'skilled tactical decision' to take something else. It is all still army comp to me as the results are the same.

I'm not a fan of unbalanced missions either, for precisely those reasons. Keep 'em nice and simple, straight from the rulebook or similar.