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So, this is a brief article, but highlights a list-building point that I often see people neglect. Basically, combi-weapons are great, and units that have access to them should take them whenever possible. With 40k in its present state, where special/heavy weapons can often do vastly more damage than all other squad weapons combined, the option to take another special weapon should not be taken lightly. For a mere 10 points, a Space Marine player can double up on special weapons in their Tactical Squads, making the squad much more effective at its chosen role. For example, I found that a single meltagun wasn't really reliable enough, so I started giving my Sergeants combi-meltas, which go a long way towards improving my squads' anti-vehicle capabilities. For my larger, Rhino-mounted squads, the Sergeants pick up combi-flamers for double flame template action, which can provide quite a lot of anti-infantry firepower when combined with 15 bolt rounds! In most cases, I find that special weapons only need to be fired once or twice anyway, so the limited ammo of a combi-weapon isn't really a significant downside. While other Space Marine players favor taking opposite combi-weapons (so a squad with a melta will take a combi-flamer, and vice versa), I find that specialization is superior to versatility in this regard, as one special weapon might not always cut it. Nonetheless, combi-weapons significantly bolster a squad's capabilities, and I would consider them quasi-mandatory inclusions on all full Tactical Squads.

Combi-weapons aren't just good for Tactical Marines, though-- Sister Superiors, Biker Sergeants, and even Scout Sergeants can all make effective use of combi-weapons. Many Space Wolf players are already familiar with the power of combi-weapons, fielding Wolf Guard with combi-weapons to fill out Grey Hunter squads in Razorbacks or to replace the second special weapon gunner in a Rhino squad that wants improved leadership or combat punch. Overall, if you are fortunate enough to play an army that has access to combi-weapons, you should definitely consider fielding them, as I find they represent a force multiplier far more effective than their cost would suggest.

To be honest I think people need tutorials on how to make and/or cast combi-weapons to avoid the usurious after-market.

Amen brother.

For the past couple of months I've been ignoring my combi-weapons in favour of fielding Sisters Superior with Eviscerators.

I consider it a failed experiment.

Let me break it down: combi-Weapons do not shore up a squad's weakness - they enhance it's strength. A subtle but important distinction.


That said, my one combi-plasmagun has proven useful on a couple of occasions.

Should you take them?

If you have extra points, yes.
If you don't have points, no.
If you need points, then drop some.

They are nice as most squads really only get that one shot, but it gets pricey if it's all over the place, hence a sprinkle with remaining points works out pretty well.

I would definitely take combi-weapons over special melee equipment, extra armor for transports, etc.

@ Fetter

I wouldn't go so far as to say they are more important than the fist but I'd definitely take them over extra armor.

Another useful trick is to put them on Chaos Rhinos. People usually forget about that and I've destroyed a lot of Landraiders with one combi-melta shot from an empty Rhino.

I would definitely take a combi-weapon over a fist, at least for a Tactical Squad. The fist makes the squad slightly better at a role that they generally aren't good at anyway (or rather are either good enough already or not, regardless of the fist), whereas the combi improves its ability to do what it's meant to do.

No a unit of marines gets charged by an ironclad.

With a combi-melta they have a single chance to pop it before it crushes the unit. (marines cant hurt it, even with krak grenades)

With a fist the unit then has some attacks that provide a decent chance of stopping it before it kills the unit.



Im sorry, but i prefer my power fists in units over combi weps.
I see no point in wasting points on a single shot in a tac squad or the likes.

sternguard, by all means ill take combi-melta, simply because 5 shots will get the job done. (50 or so points VS a popped land raider = easily worth it)

but for a basic tac squad, i just dont see the point.
I rather be gearing up with multi use weapons. (power fist / weps, melta bombs, actual special weapons etc)

The Power Fist does not have a decent chance of stopping an Ironclad before it tears a Tactical Squad to bits, and even less against a Furioso.

You have to roll a 5 to glance, and a 6 to penetrate. If you are being charged, then that's two attacks, hitting on 4+. So 0.17 of glancing, and 0.17 of penetrating. That's 0.17 rate of Shaken results, thanks to Extra Armour shifting all the Stunned results to Shaken, 0.06 rate of Immobilized results, 0.06 rate of Weapon Destroyed results, and 0.06 rate of Destroyed results. So actually only a 0.18 rate of doing anything significant. 1/6 is not a "decent chance of stopping" a unit that will kill an average of 2 Tactical Marines a round.

Also, Sternguard get Combi-Weapons for 5pts, not 10pts each, which is a steal.

An Ironclad will kill you anyway. What you want to do in that situation is lose combat, fall back with Combat Tactics, and then shoot the Ironclad next turn. The odds of killing an Ironclad with a power fist attack are dismal-- less than 3%. On average, by the time your fist would kill the Ironclad, it will already have killed your entire squad.

Obviously, you do buy actual special weapons-- but the combi-weapon serves as a better complement to those weapons than a power fist. Combi-flamers are especially effective, as it's rare for a unit to get more than one chance to use a flamer anyway, and an extra template can be massively deadly in the right situation.

Fetter: Shoot it with what? combi-weapons only get a single shot.
So you still buy a special weapons, yet ignore combat weapons?
Against 3+ saves i would prefer something that goes through armour than a single shot at it (and in effect, wasted points)

Nurglitch: I see you point here.
However, a chance to pop it is better than nothing.
I know, just realised that myself, not sure if i was taking a unit of 10 into account. (feth knows, my brains gone)

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Fetter: Shoot it with what? combi-weapons only get a single shot.

All the other anti-tank weapons in your army, plus the squad's normal melta?

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:So you still buy a special weapons, yet ignore combat weapons?

Often, yes. I don't think special melee weapons are necessary for Tactical Squads, though they can be helpful in some situations.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Against 3+ saves i would prefer something that goes through armour than a single shot at it (and in effect, wasted points)

First off, "earning your points back" isn't really a valid doctrine anymore. Second, even if you do credit that idea, if your 10-point combi-melta kills a 16-point Space Marine, it's not wasted points-- to say nothing of it killing a 250 point Land Raider!

۞ Jack ۞:

Yup, accounting for 10 man squads. Remember that if the Tactical squad is causing 0-1 'wounds' on the Dreadnought each round, and the Dreadnought is causing 2 wounds on the Tactical Squad each round, then it will take the Dreadnought five rounds or two and a half game turns to eat twice its points in Space Marines. That's ignoring the Space Marines running away, or suffering from No Retreat!

A chance at killing the Dreadnought is better than nothing, but you're better off buying Combi-Weapons with the points spent on Dreadnoughts because a Combi-Melta shot has only slightly less chance of destroying a Dreadnought and provides that chance without the risk of doing so in combat: particularly since Power Fists are I1.

I had 5 chaos termi champs with a claw and combimeltas
I deep struck them next to my opponents land raider and he laughed "what are those gonna do? attempt to scratch it? all i see is a single lightning claw and twinlinked bolter!"

all to his horror when he looked closer to see that they werent twin linked bolters.. that landraider tasted gooooood.

A friend of mine was using combi-meltas on all his squad leaders before it became cool (IE: before the space wolf codex) That extra meltagun shot is vital. I've used a few combi-skorchas in my nobz mob for my orks, it's one of those guns that you hardly ever use, but when you do get a chance to shoot it, it is very worth it's cost.

IMO, every space marine should be lead by a sarge with combi-melta fist.

The fist is debatable but the combi weapon is very useful.

Now if only I can find some...

And one thing about the ork codex struck me as just being awesome. Nobz get kombi-skorchas.... as if nobz with PK's aren't scary already...

First off, "earning your points back" isn't really a valid doctrine anymore. Second, even if you do credit that idea, if your 10-point combi-melta kills a 16-point Space Marine, it's not wasted points-- to say nothing of it killing a 250 point Land Raider!

Not to be picky, but 5 points per combi (the reason i do take them on sterns)
And i would fire AP3 rounds at them, rather than waste 1 use melta.
But i do see your point here, and i am starting to see it your way.


May have to tinker with some lists and add them in more often, see if i get any new results.



Edit: Ghost, ive taken kombi-skorchas on nobs alot of the time.
They really do pay off since its a weapon they cant miss with.
I think thats why ive never really gone towards marine combi's, simply because there is a chance to miss.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

First off, "earning your points back" isn't really a valid doctrine anymore. Second, even if you do credit that idea, if your 10-point combi-melta kills a 16-point Space Marine, it's not wasted points-- to say nothing of it killing a 250 point Land Raider!

Not to be picky, but 5 points per combi (the reason i do take them on sterns)
And i would fire AP3 rounds at them, rather than waste 1 use melta.
But i do see your point here, and i am starting to see it your way.


May have to tinker with some lists and add them in more often, see if i get any new results.



Edit: Ghost, ive taken kombi-skorchas on nobs alot of the time.
They really do pay off since its a weapon they cant miss with.
I think thats why ive never really gone towards marine combi's, simply because there is a chance to miss.

I wouldnt fire vengeace at them, I'd fire hellfire. Hellfire is always better.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

First off, "earning your points back" isn't really a valid doctrine anymore. Second, even if you do credit that idea, if your 10-point combi-melta kills a 16-point Space Marine, it's not wasted points-- to say nothing of it killing a 250 point Land Raider!

Not to be picky, but 5 points per combi (the reason i do take them on sterns)
And i would fire AP3 rounds at them, rather than waste 1 use melta.
But i do see your point here, and i am starting to see it your way.


May have to tinker with some lists and add them in more often, see if i get any new results.

I was talking primarily about Sergeants; combi-weapons are even more powerful on Sternguard, who can have a whole squad of them and pay less per weapon. One tactic I have seen used is fielding a 10-man Sternguard squad with combi-meltas on every guy, then using a Drop Pod and Combat Squads to instantly take out an enemy vehicle or two.

Kombi-skorchas on Nobz are indeed amazing, however, I have always hesitated to use them despite their inexpensive S5 template goodness, for two reasons: 1) Ork squads are usually Fleeting toward their CC targets and can't shoot anyway, and 2) it might actually be too good, and kill off enough enemies that I can't reach them for that all-important finishing charge, leaving my Boyz high and dry.

How do you other Kombi-skorcha fans overcome these two issues? Am I just worrying too much? And while we're at it, is the Kombi-rokkit ever useful at all?

For those who are wondering hiow to make scratch build Combi-weapons i can take pictures of mine if you want.

Grey Templar wrote:For those who are wondering hiow to make scratch build Combi-weapons i can take pictures of mine if you want.

I'm wondering.

I build kombies the easy way

Basic bolter.
Lower down the front grip and GS the gap in between.
Add in some small gauge pipe (about 4mm i think?)
Then cut slits in it for the barrel.
About 10 mins work and a nice combi-melta.



Edit:

With the orks kombies:

I generally only use them on large nuits, so i know they wont be wiped out and leave me open to shooting.


With the movement, i make sure i can move, shoot then assault.
Ill make sure im close enough that i can get the assault off without having to use the waaagh! move.


also, thats the only turn you can fleet, you can run instead, but cant assault afterwards.

I made combi-Flam ers by chopping up a Cadian flamer arm and gluing the pits to a bolter.

Combi-plasmagun was made from the 'plasma coil' bit of an eldar starcannon and some greenstuff.

Space Marine players have it even easier, since their bolters are plastic.

irongustavius wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:For those who are wondering hiow to make scratch build Combi-weapons i can take pictures of mine if you want.

I'm wondering.

when i get home i will take some Pics and post them.

Jabbdo wrote:I wouldnt fire vengeace at them, I'd fire hellfire. Hellfire is always better.

Uhm, Vengeance rounds are better against MEQ;

Mathhammer time!
Disregarding to hit since it's the same either way...

Hellfire:
5/6 x 1/3=5/18 dead marines (wow, that's pretty good)

Vengeance:
4+ to wound= dead marine. So it'll kill 9/18 marines.

Though hellfire does not gets hot... I'll take that risk.

If the enemy is in cover, though, Vengeance rounds are worse...

True, though given the short range of bolters, it shouldn't be that bad.

Is that Theoryhammer?
Unless the stars are aligning for you, an opponent will be sticking to cover or making his own.

Serious Mech ftw...