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Hi pals,

What do you all think of this list. At 750 points I reckon it would be a beast. Long range firepower, great hand to hand, and ultra durable~:

HQ
DP with wings

Troops
5 x plague marines w/ plasma
5 x plague marines w/melta
1 x Rhino

Heavy
5 x Havocs (ML, LC, AC, HB)
5 x Havocs (ML, LC, AC, HB)

750 on the nose - amazing!

I would go Chaos Lord as much as I had to say it mate. DP will attract attention, though Lord can be tucked away inside a Rhino.

Havocs are too messed up. Missile for anti tank and infantry, lascannon for anti tank, autocannon for light armour and heavy infantry and heavy bolter for hordes - they#re just the standard box aren't they? Focus on what you want, anti tank and anti horde the missile launcher does very nicely. I would go 4 of them and will cost cheaper too so you can hopefully get a second Rhino nad maybe just maybe dual special weaps in the Plague Marines

Hope that helps dude!

mercer wrote:I would go Chaos Lord as much as I had to say it mate. DP will attract attention, though Lord can be tucked away inside a Rhino.

Havocs are too messed up. Missile for anti tank and infantry, lascannon for anti tank, autocannon for light armour and heavy infantry and heavy bolter for hordes - they#re just the standard box aren't they? Focus on what you want, anti tank and anti horde the missile launcher does very nicely. I would go 4 of them and will cost cheaper too so you can hopefully get a second Rhino nad maybe just maybe dual special weaps in the Plague Marines

Hope that helps dude!

I agree but i'd also go for some termi's dedicated to Tzeencth w/ an reaper autocannon and heavy flamer. but that's just me.

Why do you want a short ranged anti horde unit and long range anti infantry/ light armour weapon in the same unit? Plus in units of 5 I'm sure you can only take 1 anyway..

cool but not havoks weapons, 2 missile 2 las one unit, 2 hb 2 autocannon other still same points

Good thoughts,

But here's something - mixing up the weapons in the dev squads is actually a thing done on purpose (and also to make it a realistic purchase).

I found this in my IF list - which has a dev squad with ML, LC, HB, PC. If i'm facing horde the lascannon and then probs plasma goes first when they get shot at and vice versa against armour.

Four missile launchers is obviously best but lacks the punch of lascannon or the AP2 of plasma. Doing a Phil and having anti-horde and heavy split into two squads mean the opponent can just concentrate on the unit he wants rid of.

I hold to the option of mixed units.

I also want long range to be able to 'hang back' and force the enemy to me. The plague marines are tough to shift and I'll probably have one unit in the Rhino to take an objective later in the game.

I'll take a look at Termie Lords, thanks Mercer. But I am thinking that an eternal warrior is preferable. And DPs (esp the new kit) - look amazing!

your mental

I say get rid of the havocs though good not as effective as obliterators. I know I say this a lot but they have the weapon you need when you need it.

What weapons can Oblits morph?

lascannon, plasma cannon, multi melta, t/l flamer, t/l meltgun, t/l plasma I think that's it.

Your Havocs won't work affectively doing what you said. When coming to tackle tanks the lascannon and missile launcher will do the job but the other two won't, against hordes lascannon won't do a lot. It's bad weapon synergy. So you either have a less affective unit which needs to get luck to actually do anything and they are jack of all trades master of none, or have a more defined unit which suits a role better, but will be targetted probably more. In background Devs are probably also firing at different targets too

Eternal warriors is cool but when all lascannons, missile launchers, plasma guns, meltaguns, plasma cannons ,thunder hammers and power fists come at your Prince he isn't going to last long :( . But I agree, new Prince models are wicked, picked some up recently

The weight of fire Havocs can put out is much better than the "versatility" of Obliterators, at least in my view.

Also - I don't mind a degree of redundancy with the havocs. Then when they take fire i simply let the autocannons or HBs perish.

I agree though - If I could afford it - I'd probably opt for one squad with 4 missile launchers and one squad with two lascannon and two missile launchers. It would just cost a fortune in £££.

Plus, while my head tells me 2x2 Oblits over the two havoc squads - in my heart I want the havocs - they look great - proper old school heretics (-:

On the DP I just think his maneuverability makes him too good to not take. He will get a beating if enough shots are fired at him. But for 140 points I don't mind having him attrract fire and scare people while the havocs do their thing. And they look Saaa-weeet.

Thanks for the food for thought guys...

While im no CSM player, i will say something that may help.

I take it those hav's are the out of the box ones?
If you dont want to change weps about, why not change the units about a bit?

I think this should work better for purpose, and you wont have to buy anything new:

Heavy
5 x Havocs (ML x2, LC x2)
5 x Havocs (AC x2, HB x2)

Atleast that way you have some format in the units.
1 can hunt down most AV's while the other works on horde, or can have a go at light tanks / rear armour.

DP with wings is only 130 points, and Jack's suggestion is a good one. Grouping Havocs by the kinds of things they can damage (though I actually have 4 havocs with each heavy and special weapon anyway as I have way too many CSM ) is a great way to ensure that you get the most out of them.

SilverMK2 wrote:The weight of fire Havocs can put out is much better than the "versatility" of Obliterators, at least in my view.

You're kind of biased though with your nasty Havocs

Taloncab wrote:Also - I don't mind a degree of redundancy with the havocs. Then when they take fire i simply let the autocannons or HBs perish.

I agree though - If I could afford it - I'd probably opt for one squad with 4 missile launchers and one squad with two lascannon and two missile launchers. It would just cost a fortune in £££.

Plus, while my head tells me 2x2 Oblits over the two havoc squads - in my heart I want the havocs - they look great - proper old school heretics (-:

On the DP I just think his maneuverability makes him too good to not take. He will get a beating if enough shots are fired at him. But for 140 points I don't mind having him attrract fire and scare people while the havocs do their thing. And they look Saaa-weeet.

Thanks for the food for thought guys...

Dude if I had my Havoc heavy weapons I'd sent them to you for free just to make myself happy! You could get imperial weapons and just add those daemon heads instead of the barrels, easy to do.

Just switch them around a little as Jack said.

Nice thoughts. At least if I do buy the two boxed sets I could mix em or group them.

But take this example:

1 - My enemy is packed with horde & MCs. He wants rid of my ACs and HBs - he has to go through the lascannons and MLs first. he might even be able to wipe one squad out, but I'd still have guns remaining

2 - My enemy has tanks a plenty. He needs rid of those lascannons. As above, he needs to wipe both squads out to be rid of the threat - as opposed to just pummelling the 2xML, 2xLC squad.

You getting my thinking. I don't know what my enemy is so I want to spread my bets, and I think the degree of redundancy is actually worth it.

Still, the ML rules high and I'm going to have a look in the bits box and see what I can craft.

Although you get redundancy by mixing them like you suggest, you also make them less effective. Would you rather have 1 squad of 4 LC's which is pretty much guaranteed to take out any armoured unit/MC and 1 squad of 4 HB's, which can do the same to units of infantry, but which are vulnerable to enemy fire/assault, or would you rather have a mixed unit where you could be essentially wasting 1/2 of your shots each turn almost no matter what you are shooting at, but which is capable of tackling a range of threats?

I with you Talon, I love my havocs! I would suggest trying to get both plauge marine squads in rhinos thought. Maybe drop the lascannons for ML and one AC for a HB? Oh, and alittle heads up, the autocannon is a pain to get right -.- (http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/76289-Chaos%20havoc%20with%20Autocannon.html?m=2, notice the left shoulder)

Thanks Limbo - the AC and HB are the same points cost right. I heard they're tricky to fix, but if I can build one of those infernal dropships I reckon it couldn't be too much harder.

Honestly - you need a degree in engineering to do some of these models.

SliverMK2 - I realise I may be wasting shots yes. But I do shoot each squad separately so wouldn't have to commit both squads (may have to for heavy armnour though). The good thing is if I'm lucky with the first squad the other is free to do something else. Plus for dealing with light armour - such as rhinos/razorbacks/speeders the 4 x lascannons would be overkill!

If you were using mixed squads it might be tempting to leave high AV targets to meltas in the rest of your list.

As I said, it all depends on what you want them to do, and how you feel about mixing your weapons. Personally I would never take 4x LC outside of Apoc as I can get better anti-tank for less in other squads (ie melta guns).

Nope, AC are actually at 20 points while HB costs 15, LC are 35 and ML are 20, so it would be just enough to get another rhino in there.

Ah cheers Limbo - good knowledge