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I've spent the last year or so converting a deathguard csm army, but now that I am finally ready to play it, I'm getting trashed. Seems I'm outnumbered most of the time and I don't have the heavy support to pack a punch long enough for my slugs to reach and hold an objective/get into range. If anyone knows of tactics and/or links to competitive army lists, it would be much appreciated. Heres what I've got to work with, I won't post an army list as this is the wrong section, but these are all the models I currently have, any of which can be weapon swapped, changed around, or taken out of the army. I can aslo add to the army, should be heading to a GW store next week. Let me know.

Heres what I have to work with:

Deamon Prince
Chaos Sorceror
2 squads of 7 Plague Marines (2 meltas, 2 plasmas, 2 power fists)
Rhino
Predator
1 Oblit
Land Raider
Dreadnought
Defiler
4 models with Heavy Bolters
7 CSM (1 plasma)
1 marine with power weapon and plasma pistol
10 summoned lesser deamons

its pretty much a mess...to say the least. Basically, with the army list I've been using, my tactics go something like this:

Dev squad w/4 heavy bolters sits behind cover and rains death on enemy troops
Land Raider (or Defiler depending on the game) sits back and takes out tanks
1 squad (w/meltas) rushes up in the rhino, while the other sits back and holds an objectives (plasmas)
Deamon prince and sorceror just sort of do their thing, sorceror usually camps back while the DP rushes
The squad in the rhino usually has a standard with it, so when I get close enough, I summon my deamons and try to get them into close combat (they get 30 attacks all together if they charge + the attacks of my plague marines)
and thats the basic jist of it.



Sorry, its late, I'm tired, this thread is sloppy. I've spent about 7 years painting/modeling, and maybe 8 months gaming, so I'm completely inexperienced with tactics and a competitive army list.


Thanks for reading that mess, feedback would be appreciated
Cheers

I'd try and drop the land raider and take some more rhinos to protect your marines as they move about. 220 points is pretty steep if you are not using the land raider to deliver some hard hitting unit into CC (even then it is still really expensive) and are just using it to snipe enemy vehicles. If you want to sit it at the back, put in a squad of 5 CSM so at least it can claim an objective.

If you want lots of lascannons, take some havocs with lascannons (I am pretty sure that 5 of them with 4 lascannons are cheaper than a land raider, plus they are much easier to hide in cover ). However, I would advise that you leave the anti-tank to your meltas and use your havocs and pred to take out infantry before mopping them up with your marines (once they have nailed the tanks).

I would also give your DP wings and hide him behind a rhino as you advance to try and give him cover (since now they can both move 12" together and your DP can hop over terrain, which can be great. You might also consider twinning him with a 5 man raptor squad with 2 meltas. These guys can pop transports and thus allow the DP to assult whatever is inside. They can also screen the DP from assult, allowing him to countercharge on the next turn. I also like to give my DP a MoN to make it even harder to kill.

With your summoned daemons, you may benefit from adding in an icon or two to your PM/CSM squads so that they can deepstrike in accurately and also have a choice of where they will appear accurately too.

I run pure Death Guard and have a pretty nice time with:

HQ- DP-MoN, Warptime, Wings-175
HQ- DP-MoN, Warptime, Wings-175

Troop-7x PM's, 2x meltaguns, 1 champ w fist, icon
Rhino-combi plasma-271

Troop-7x PM's, 2x plasmaguns,1 champ w fist, icon
Rhino-combi plasma -281

Troop -13x Summoned Lesser daemons -169

Heavy Support- Pred 2x Las 1x autocannon-135

Heavy Support- Vindi daemonic possession -145

Heavy Support- Oblits x2 -150

Total: ~1500

So here's the thing. You will be outnumbered. You are durable BUT there are plenty of nasty things that make PM's die like grots. That's why I love the lesser daemons. They add bodies and really excel against the things that PM's die to (Incubi, SS TH termies, tyrants, ect.) Worst come to worst they are a cheap objective grabber as you can't always commit a costly squad to hanging back. Plus they charge the turn they come in. Ideally, if it's turn 3 they will be doing just that. 39 st 4 I4 attack is nothing to sneeze at either.

A pure Death Guard army is hard because you are limited, outnumbered, and slow. CSM's struggle with lack of range in general. This army is really looking for a 12-24" fight. You have to be advancing 6" a turn. What I like is the Vindi up front either flanked or covering the rhinos. The Vindi is there as a double edged sword. The opponent shoots it and they'll need to penetrate or generally it isn't worth it. If they do this then they are ignoring the rhinos and DP's behind the vindi. If they don't shoot it then they'll get pie plated with st 10 ap2. Either way you win. The DP's go behind the rhinos and the oblits do what's needed depending on the opponent. I'm not adverse to deep striking them but it's nice to have some ranged shots turn 1.

The Pred can sit in cover and transport or MC snipe. The rest of the army advances together. TOGETHER is the key. You are too slow to divide your force. The army is a pretty standard "earth" type and has done me well. Outlasting opponents and getting in close is how they work in the fluff and on the table. The DP's are just nasty. If they get to combat and the opponent's big nasty guys are gone or wounded they have a field day. Overall, I think of zombies-advance slow and methodically and hard to kill. All the while soften up what you can and then fire fight up close. Remember, blight gernades make the opponents charge much less fearsome. That and the DP's waiting to counter attack

Playing a legion list for it's own sake with no rules support, expect that you're playing at a massive disadvantage already (I run Nurgle daemons so I know the appeal ). I'd flesh out that CSM squad to 10 and give them an IoCG so you have some more bodies on the table. Lesser Daemons can also accomplish this, but for just 2 points more your 5+ Invuln becomes a 3+ armor and you get a gun and special weapon access. I also used to always take a Summoned Greater Daemon. He's amazing for the points and gives you another heavy hitter. I wouldn't advise running a naked champ because a clever opponent will see right through what you're doing, so just bring the Greater in where he'll make his points back (you should have that option most games). Also nothing draws fire from your resilient troops like a giant green thing in their face

Playing a legion list for it's own sake with no rules support, expect that you're playing at a massive disadvantage already (I run Nurgle daemons so I know the appeal ). I'd flesh out that CSM squad to 10 and give them an IoCG so you have some more bodies on the table. Lesser Daemons can also accomplish this, but for just 2 points more your 5+ Invuln becomes a 3+ armor and you get a gun and special weapon access. I also used to always take a Summoned Greater Daemon. He's amazing for the points and gives you another heavy hitter. I wouldn't advise running a naked champ because a clever opponent will see right through what you're doing, so just bring the Greater in where he'll make his points back (you should have that option most games). Also nothing draws fire from your resilient troops like a giant green thing in their face

For me it's the principle of not mixing legions (super fluff nazi mode initiated). But other than that; sure, you are at a disadvantage. The lesser daemon debate has been done ad nasuem. I will say it is not as simple as "oh 2 more points gets you a 3+ and bolter." Kitted out (which is necessary) normal CSM's aren't cheap and die to the same stuff PM's do. They add bodies but lack the dimension lesser daemons do.

As for the Summoned Greater daemon, I'd leave him home unless you plan a list around him. MSU + naked champs would be a good setup for that build. If you want 7 man PM's with fists it's just not worth it.

Thanks guys, really helps out with getting a good list together and ideas as to killing some false emperor worshippers I'll have to build up a list tonight, and post it up in the army list section, then you guys can tell me what you think.

Cheers

Ive seen it a ton of times on here, either lose the defiler or take multiples of them. Having one defiler just doesnt really cut it for its points cost. I would say drop it and free up points for some more obliterators.

Kinda feel the same way about the obliterator too, either take multiple or drop them imo

I woul HIGHLY suggest getting at least your plague bros into rhinos, they are tough, but dont make them take more shots than they have to. Get some armor around them and they are far more of a threat with mobility on thier side.

What are the DP and Chaos Sorc equipped with? chaos sorc or DP with MoS and Lash can be crazy effective along with 3x obliterators. i know its reaching that point of being over done but hey, it works, and i mean..playing is fun in general, but winning is certainly a lot more fun than losing right?