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I currently play an 1850 CSM army with a small group of friends. With the new codexes that have been released, I am now about to face a new challenge. Two of the players in the group are in the process of building a different army to play. One is planning a Nids army while the other a Space Wolf . Looking at these two armies i am just not seeing a good counter to what they bring in the Chaos dex. While I like CSM, I'm not too thrilled about the prospect of having almost no chance against these armies.

Since I don't see a CSM codex rewrite happening anytime in the near future, I am contemplating a new army myself. I really like the Nids also, but am not sure how they will stand up over time with other dex releases. I also like the Blood Angels but I don't know that much about their strengths and weaknesses. I am looking for opinions on these two armies on which you would choose and why. Thanks.

Chaos... because baised poll is baised.

Buying an entirely new army based on percived power level is loltastic.

I'm at a similar point, with 2000pts of Chaos. I'm waiting until next year for a new Chaos Codex. However, I'm thinking of trying Guard. Maybe Space Marines.

make a traitor guard army then you will still be chaos

dude, the chaos codex has what it takes. MoT greater demons with force weapons can easily end monstrous creatures and defilers can tie up hordes of little ones for eternity, while both MoT demons and defilers eat marines for breakfast.

You already have a counter with the army you have, and that's just using 2 of the roughly 3 CSM units I know about.

And the obliterators, I mean, you get to take one model there with every weapon you will ever need with awesome saves and it can move and shoot. I would start every list with 9 oblits. The rest is gravy. lol. Blood for the Blood god!

The issue may not be your codex, but rather your implementation of its use. Necrons are widely accepted to be the worst army in 40k. I kick butt with Necrons. There's more to it than your codex.

1. Start with 9x obliterators.

2. Add a Daemon Prince HQ

3. Add two troop choices. Khorne or Plague Marines.

4. Flesh out your army from there based on the theme you like. Give our Daemon Prince Lash of Submission and back him up with a screaming horde of Khorne Berzerkers. Or take plague marines, and give them rhino mobility.

Aaaannnnd Dash of Pepper has singlehandedly reduced the CSM codex to a four step easy bake recipe. But, how do you argue with it? Awesome.

themrsleepy wrote:Aaaannnnd Dash of Pepper has singlehandedly reduced the CSM codex to a four step easy bake recipe. But, how do you argue with it? Awesome.

You can mess with the recipe a little (a Defiler instead of one squad of Oblits or loading up on NMs w/ blastmasters, for example), but he's pretty much correct. In fact, you can do a dual lash list with 9 oblits, 2 mech squads of PMs, and 2 mech squads of berzerkers in almost exactly 2000 points.

Whatever you do, resist peer pressure and steer clear of Sparklemarines.

We have enough of them already.

Dashes recipe is quite old.
Still works, but pretty much the outline of 'the normal' competitive forces. (though I would say instead of 9 oblits it's just 3 heavy slots)

Of course it is Heavy is just short for Heavy hitters, so who wouldn't take the best! Same for Elites as well, unless you have flayed ones for an elite choice.... ugh But, CSM has a lot of potential, I'm not typical to make the 'that's my next army' speech, but CSM are probably it.

Oblits are great, but I wouldn't call them the best. Nothing is 'the best'...just cause Edward and Jacob Marines are around apparently.

I was more indicating in general, the competitive lists revolve around taking 3 vindis. Oblits are great, but I know many other competitive list that do fine without them.

Sorry for the off topic, but do those specified marines sparkle in the sun? And, I slightly wanna puke with the thought.

Sparkyaclown wrote:With the new codexes that have been released, I am now about to face a new challenge.

Dude, use CSM. Just because they are old, it does not mean they are weak! I TABLE people constantly with Deamonhunters, the "worst" army in the game. Get Kharn, and kick some face in.

I think several armies are vying for worst. Dark eldar, Necrons... it happens.. Deamonhunters do have their moments for sure.

Necrons are probably the best army currently available to play.

That being said, you should probably pick the army that you think is the coolest and would be the most fun to work on. If you don't have that connection, it doesn't matter how internet good an army/list is, you will come to regret it.

I think having a 2nd army makes sense, but as long as its for the right reasons.
I think CSM are capable of stomping just as many mud-holes as some of the more....spoiled armies *coughnidscoughspacewolvescough* just gotta have the right tools for the job.
Eldar are my 2nd army and I started collecting them for 3 reasons; the first being the 'wrong' reason as I considered my World Eater army to be too weak against my regular Nid opponent, the second was because I really liked their models, and the third was because my mate sold me his Eldar stuff cheap.
I've used Eldar for the past 2 years and after mixed results with them, I have returned to the call of Chaos, and after painting 75% of my World Eaters in the colours of the Black Legion (as well as buying some new toys) I'm almost ready to unleash hell upon my housemate's Blood Angels and the nemesis that is my friend's Nid army.




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Oh but if you do go for a second army, then I'd highly recommend Eldar, simply because my hate for the nids is so great that I would never recommend them, and as a self respecting chaos player, to recommend the lap-dogs of the corpse seer would be blasphemy.

Nids! Because we could always use more xenos to kill.

First off, your wanting to pick another army solely based off of what your opponents are playing, and thats just a bad idea from the get go.

Chaos annihilates Nids (well, they did last nid book everything about nids in my post here will be based off the assumption that they are still..... Nid like) if you take the right stuff. Heavy Bolters are your friend, as are Noise Marines (with sonic blasters), Vindicators, and Flamers. With nids always remember they don't have vehicles, so you want to avoid high strength single shot weapons and instead take template or multi shot weapons. A Lascannon is basically wasted points against Nids. Also, the fact that almost all units in the Chaos Space Marine book comes with a Bolter AND a Bolt pistol/CCW allows for some very versitile unit roles (I.E. form a gunline and then position your units so that at least half of them can get the counter charge, unless its a MC or genestealers [and honestly, why are you letting them into your line?] your other units WILL hold their own.)

Can't give any advice against Wolves, have never played them.

Dashofpepper wrote:The issue may not be your codex, but rather your implementation of its use. Necrons are widely accepted to be the worst army in 40k. I kick butt with Necrons. There's more to it than your codex.

1. Start with 9x obliterators.

2. Add a Daemon Prince HQ

3. Add two troop choices. Khorne or Plague Marines.

4. Flesh out your army from there based on the theme you like. Give our Daemon Prince Lash of Submission and back him up with a screaming horde of Khorne Berzerkers. Or take plague marines, and give them rhino mobility.

I respectfully disagree with this sentiment.

1. Start with 3u10 CSM (3 units of 10 CSM), Champ, IoCG, Power Weapon on Champ, Special Weapons as you see fit, and METAL BAWKSES!

2. Add some Havocs, kitted out as you see fit with a METAL BAWKS.

3. Add either a Predator or a Vindicator for some armor.

4. Add any of the three Lord choices you see fit compatible with Step 5.

5. Kit the rest of your army out. If you want to take Raptors or a Biker Squad, take a Lord with associated equips. If you want to soak up some fire, take a Prince (Real Life experiances have taught me they don't last much longer than 3 turns and soak up quite a bit of firepower before they die, YMMV). If your going against a couple of MC's (like Nids) take a Sorcerer with a force weapon, the power doesn't really matter.

Just my $0.02. (OP, if you mean to play competatively, just ignore my little 5 step thingy. I don't play competatively, and as such have no idea of it's metagame. You say you are playing with friends, and this is what I have had good results with against my friends, being IG, Nids, Space Marines, Eldar, and Tau)

Melissia wrote:Nids! Because we could always use more xenos to kill.

Agreed.

Men! Women!

Bust out the Flamers!

We have Xeno scum to purge!

Stick true with CSM man, just tweek your list.

I still have nightmares with my eldar army fighting karne