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G'Day folks, just wondering which of these three special characters is generally most useful overall to a footslogging, infantry heavy Blood Angels army, made up of Tacticals, Scouts, Sanguinary Priests, Devastators, Terminators, Attack Bikes and the odd Whirlwind or Dreadnought.

I'm used to fighting rushing Blood Angel, Ork & Tyranid armies; shooty (C)SM, Necron & Tau infantry armies; mixed purpose Black Templar, Space Wolf & Witchhunter armies; and the odd Mech SM, Daemonhunter or Eldar army.

I usually field a single HQ choice as an Epistolary and Command Squad.

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

Why would you

1. Go Footslog with Blood Angels
2. Use large amounts of Tacs/Devs/Scouts instead of Assaults with Blood Angels

you mind as well use the normal Marine Dex

kenshin620 wrote:Why would you

1. Go Footslog with Blood Angels
2. Use large amounts of Tacs/Devs/Scouts instead of Assaults with Blood Angels

you mind as well use the normal Marine Dex

Well there are a few reasons:
1. The Devastators are cheaper
2. They have better 'Apothecaries'
3. I never used Combat Tactics, The Red Thirst has been more useful to me
4. I not interested in building an army around a Special Character like 90% of Vanilla Marine armies
5. I like the characterful nature of the different Blood Angels units

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

"foot slogging" BA can work quite well, because Sanguinary priests can make a large portion of the army very durable. Rather than tacticals, I'd still stick with assault marines or death company, however. If you really like bolters, DC with bolters are relentless, and can be quite effective.

Edit: Astorath is really cool because any unit that doesn't get the red thirst can be joined by him to make them fearless if you need to. He's also a good damage dealer for his price.

Hmm yes foot slogging DC have relentless. but then they would do nothing to a well armored vehicle that would kite them to their doom

I guess Astorath is the better. hes cheaper and buffs your army

That's why you have lots and lots of melta guns in the rest of your army, 2-3 fists in the DC, and a couple of inferno pistols as well.

willydstyle wrote:That's why you have lots and lots of melta guns in the rest of your army, 2-3 fists in the DC, and a couple of inferno pistols as well.

My army usually has 5 Multi-meltas, 4 mobile (Attack Bikes & Dreadnought) and 2 'stationary' (Devastators).

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LSWSjr wrote:

willydstyle wrote:That's why you have lots and lots of melta guns in the rest of your army, 2-3 fists in the DC, and a couple of inferno pistols as well.

My army usually has 5 Multi-meltas, 4 mobile (Attack Bikes & Dreadnought) and 2 'stationary' (Devastators).

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

Maths fail, I meant to say my army usually has 6 Multi-meltas...

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

Take more.

willydstyle wrote:Take more.

How many more? They also have, as stationary, 3 Missile Launchers, 2 Lascannons, 2 Plasma Cannons; and, as mobile, 3 Heavy Bolters.

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

MM attack bikes are great in a list with adequate jump-priest coverage.

Melta guns on jump infantry are great as well. The inferno pistol is an expensive upgrade, but 3 melta shots are much more reliable than 2.

willydstyle wrote:MM attack bikes are great in a list with adequate jump-priest coverage.

Melta guns on jump infantry are great as well. The inferno pistol is an expensive upgrade, but 3 melta shots are much more reliable than 2.

yes yes yes

MM Bikes are excellent. they have a 24" range for their melta rule but can still deal a S8 AP1 hit from 36"

willydstyle wrote:MM attack bikes are great in a list with adequate jump-priest coverage.

Melta guns on jump infantry are great as well. The inferno pistol is an expensive upgrade, but 3 melta shots are much more reliable than 2.

From my experience with Witchhunters, don't you have to be in spitting distance to gain the full benefit of Inferno Pistols?

Also if I took Astorath, then shouldn't I take a squad of Jump Pack Death Company, in which case wouldn't Lemartes be just as useful, plus cheaper?

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

When you're jump infantry with Descent of Angels, getting in spitting distance is no problem.

I torn here between meph and sang.

Ast isnt bad.
The S6 power weapon for hunting down daemons and the likes is allways nice, but its the special rules im not too keep on.
Removes the limit on Death company - All well and good, but not only are they points heavy, they cant hold objectives.

If your going for an all out DC army then great, he is just what you need.
But otherwise, i wouldnt think about taking him.




Meph: Stupidly strong and quick, but lack of a ++ save kills him a bit, his points also dont help his cause.
Granted, he can go hunting down armour or MC's with ease, and also other characters, but he has too many flaws.

Against cheap units like burna boyz he is hitting a rock.
Sure, he will kill a few, but multiple PW attacks in return will finish him quickly.

No IC rule really hurts him, meaning he will have to keep moving in cover, or take someone elses transport.

His main strength comes from powers, which if stopped ruins him.

He is however great fun to play as most people focus anti-tank weapons on him alot lol (not too fun when you play against guard)





Sang: Not as nasty as meph, but he has a decent ++ save.
He has a constant speed rather than it being a 80% chance of it working (going by averages of rolls and anything that may prevent it)

Granted he isnt as strong in combat, but he can still do well on his own.

Again, big downfalls are no IC and an even bigger points cost -_-

If i do take him i make sure i have assault marines near him at all times, or DC simply for the +1 attack bubble he gives.




If i want to take a special character its usually corb for his rules, or tycho with a unit of sterns (all have special ammo)
and his LD to all of the army is nice.
Just a shame that the DC tycho doesent have IC -_-

The sanguinor.

don't play BA, just thought I'd vote for him since he looks the kewlest

Samus_aran115 wrote:The sanguinor.

don't play BA, just thought I'd vote for him since he looks the kewlest

you have some strange tastes. a lot of people hate him

Still he makes a great statue!

People miss the point with Astorath. Just because he removes the limit on DC units does not mean that's the only bonus you have to take him for, nor does it mean you even have to use it.

His real bonus is the 50% chance for any of your units to succumb to the black rage. This is excellent for furioso dreads and assault marines.

The fact that he's also a chaplain allows you to put him with any assault squad that did not become fearless, making that units fearless as well.

Then, since he's jump infantry, he's very useful if you want to detach him from the assault squad once your DC get in range of the baddies as well, to give them re-rolls to hit and wound.

The way I like to play my BA army, is use both Astrorath and Mephiston.

Mephiston spearheads an assault with his backed up by Astorath and 2 assault squads, which is supported by 2 Vindicators, 5 DeathCompany with Power Weapons, and a Land Raider Redeemer containing 5 Assault Terminators, a Chaplain, and a Sanguinary Priest (No termy armor for Chaplain and Sanguinary Priest).

Mephiston handles the big things, supported by the Termy Group, my Vindicators and Multi-Melta redeemer are "Long Range" (as the longest range weapon I have in the army is 24") Astrorath aids the Assault Squads in blasting anything Mephiston and the Termys can't cover.

Anything that Mephiston can't handle, usually due to Eternal Warrior, Astrorath jumps in to assist him, as his axe forces Invulnerable Rerolls.

Using this setup I killed a Space Wolves army that used Ragnar, Logan wing, and Njal, and an extra Rune Priest.


In the 15 or so games I've used this setup, I have never lost!

willydstyle wrote:People miss the point with Astorath. Just because he removes the limit on DC units does not mean that's the only bonus you have to take him for, nor does it mean you even have to use it.

His real bonus is the 50% chance for any of your units to succumb to the black rage. This is excellent for furioso dreads and assault marines.

The fact that he's also a chaplain allows you to put him with any assault squad that did not become fearless, making that units fearless as well.

Then, since he's jump infantry, he's very useful if you want to detach him from the assault squad once your DC get in range of the baddies as well, to give them re-rolls to hit and wound.

Well in the context of the foot slogging tacs/devs/scouts he wouldnt be very useful

I honestly wouldn't really take any of these guys! They just look like beatsticks in this list.

Just stick with the libby. He's cheap and effective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I honestly wouldn't really take any of these guys! They just look like beatsticks in this list.

Just stick with the libby. He's cheap and effective.

D: i see your point there with his tactics, allways assumed people would throw him with packed DC, in which case would be a nasty point sink.
35 points per model, not much use as 5, so your looking at 350 for 10.
And thats without upgrades lol.

Im just more pissed they made DC so points heavy with packs.
Before they were a 5 point upgrade to a model that was free.

kenshin620 wrote:

willydstyle wrote:People miss the point with Astorath. Just because he removes the limit on DC units does not mean that's the only bonus you have to take him for, nor does it mean you even have to use it.

His real bonus is the 50% chance for any of your units to succumb to the black rage. This is excellent for furioso dreads and assault marines.

The fact that he's also a chaplain allows you to put him with any assault squad that did not become fearless, making that units fearless as well.

Then, since he's jump infantry, he's very useful if you want to detach him from the assault squad once your DC get in range of the baddies as well, to give them re-rolls to hit and wound.

Well in the context of the foot slogging tacs/devs/scouts he wouldnt be very useful

Why not? Having fearless units is very good. You can get FC from a priest, but fearlessness only comes from astorath or having a chaplain with a unit, or getting lucky on that black rage roll.

I'd go with the Sang. for the +1 attack bubble. If you have a bunch of foot units the +1 attack bubble can be quite useful. He also boost one Srg. in the army so if you give your Sarge's PW then you'll get a bonus minor character. Finally he will own one enemy IC in combat with his rerolls.

Just a thought here, but a footslogging army wouldnt be too bad.

could also have a nice theme

Go all scouts (6 x 10)
That way you have plenty of cheap troops.
They fight well in combat anyway, and are only a slight bit worse than marines.

That +1 attack bubble really boosts them well.
Basic 1, +1 assault, +1 for BP + CCW, +1 from sang.
4 attacks on a basic scout? sounds nice to me lol.

Can have a fist or bombs on the sergeant for anti-tank, or the odd missile.
Could even throw cloaks on them for the sheer hell of it.




Im now getting too many ideas

I've played against an army that had just mepheston in it, i played another army who just had astroth in it, and i've played an army who had just the sanquinar in it.. They all lost becuase they chose to use an all assualt jump army against my completly shooty space marine army, but i would have to say that Mepheston did the most damage before he died

kenshin620 wrote:Why would you

1. Go Footslog with Blood Angels
2. Use large amounts of Tacs/Devs/Scouts instead of Assaults with Blood Angels

you mind as well use the normal Marine Dex

Dito. Tactials and Scouts have no place in a BA army.

wuestenfux wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:Why would you

1. Go Footslog with Blood Angels
2. Use large amounts of Tacs/Devs/Scouts instead of Assaults with Blood Angels

you mind as well use the normal Marine Dex

Dito. Tactials and Scouts have no place in a BA army.

Actually after some recent games, the Tacticals are being removed altogether, although I don't know what I'm gonna do with the four squads (not all used together) of Tacticals I have in my collection, maybe add a third Devastator squad.

The number of Scouts has increased however, I've had a fair bit of success recently with Outflanking close combat Scouts, although I'm avoiding buying more unless it becomes a proven strategy for me overall.

---

I'm gonna try with Mephiston next game and I'm adding a jump pack squad, though I'm wondering if they should be Death Company or Assault Marines, I also have a Seraphim squad I use as Meltabomb tank hunters, heck they're much better and a hell of a lot cheaper than Vanguard, even if they are only S3 T3.


Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

DC with jump packs can become a liability, since they have to move towards the closest enemy.
A smart opponent can eventually use this to his advantage.

Id go sanguinoro myself, bit more durable than meph. And he doesnt have to rely on a psychic power to move around.