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After a bit of play testing I decided my tyranid list just wont have enough power to kill land raiders and thunder puppys at the same time in any given list. So I've decided to try the daemons out again.

This time a bit different than fatecrusher though.

HQ
Skulltaker- Juggernaught 175
Herald of Khorne- Juggernaught 105
Herald of Khorne- Juggernaught 105
Masque 100

Elites
6 Bloodcrushers- Icon, Instrument, Fury 280
6 Fiends- Unholy might 190
6 Fiends- Unholy might 190

Troops
5 Horrors- Bolt Changeling 100
5 Horrors- Bolt 95
5 Horrors- Bolt 95
5 Horrors- Bolt 95

Heavy
Soul Grinder- Tongue 160
Soul Grinder- Tongue 160

(Tongue only because the list cant deal with land raider otherwise)

So this should handle chaos a bit better than my fatecrusher army. Not too sure about mech guard though but now I don't have to worry about psykerfag squad or psycannons. The heralds and skulltaker all join the crushers and form a death star, that not even thunder puppys or nob bikers want to mess with, and the fiends and the grinders are nothing to take lightly. There's also no hope trying to run away since I have the masque. Only thing that really worries me is mech guard and walkers, and maybe orks.

It's amazing how much you can fit in when you aren't limited to fateweaver and bloodthirster. Although I really miss the thirster.

Rich or Grace would be the ones to talk to about Daemons in 40k.

Dunno about no plague bearers for troops and no phelm on grinders for the battle cannon. Haven't seen anyone take Tongue its short ranged. Horrors still get pwned by Psycannons bad unless you in cover.

A nifty tactic you can use to help against wlakers is use the masque to spin....er dance them so they are facing away from a horror squad. Then unload with all the S4 and the bolt. Should at least stun the dam things. And if you get lucky and the bolt hits, should make the walker not much of a threat.

I also think if you want to free up a few points, switch out some horror squas for plague bearers, or 5 man bloodletters. I know 5 man bloodletters arent the most resilient, but if you dont need all the heralds with the crushers (say there is no reason to deathstar) the herals can join the 5-man bloodletters to make them more survivable, and killy. If you do 3 squads like this you can attach heralds (if needed) and the extra points saved can get you some screamers. For holding objectives, 5 bloodletters going to ground is actually better than 5 horrors going to ground, and the letters can take an assault. Also they can still bust transports camping on objectives as an emergency, about as reliably as a bolt.

Just some thoughts.

Do you really need the two heralds of khorne? I'm a big proponent of 5 man horror squads, but if you dropped 3 of them down to 5 man plague bearer squads, and dropped the two hearlds, you'd have enough points free'd up to put in the blood thirster, or a third soul grinder (if you just want to drop one of the heralds).

You guys raise nteresting points about the bloodletters. I had really never thought about that. Is it really worth losing all that fire power though?

Also as much as I'd like the bloodthirster taking him would requir reducing heralds makes my deathstar not so much a death star. And again requires plauges which droops fire power.

The power of the combined crusher squad come from its ability to take 10 wounds before losing a model. That's quite powerful. A third grinder mght be wort it though. But again I'm not sure if it's worth me downgrading my troops to get less shooting.

The letters plus the crushers is more versatile in that if you dont need the death star you can join the letters. You lose a little firepower, but 3 BS3 bolts in seperate waves isnt much firepower to lose. Late game Id rather have the small letter squad than the small horror squad for the most part, but Im more a melee guy than rely on shooting guy.

Following your suggestions heres what I've come up with.

Skulltaker- Juggernuaght 175
Herald- Juggernaught 105
Masque 100

6 Crushers- Icon Fury Instrument 280
6 Fiends 180
6 Fiends 180

5 horrors- bolt changeling 100
5 horrors- bolt 95
5 plaugebeaers 75
5 bloodletters 80

Soul Grinder- tongue 160
Soul Grinder- tongue 160
Soul Grinder- tongue 160

Alternatively I could swith the plauges to more bloods by dropping the changeling. Let me know if you like this better.

Rich pwned me with the changeling at ardboys when my grey knights failed their leadership and instead of pwning fateweaver with their psy cannons they shot the side of a chimera exploding it. That alone makes the Changeling worth it. I think that might have won him the game.

Plaguebearers seem better for holding objectives. Letters die to bolters.

Has Tongue been that good? I always see Rich and Grace ran phlem for the battle cannon.

Tongue isn't that great with BS3 but as he stated it is the only Str 10 weapon Daemons have, everything else unless a monstrous creature in combat cant touch a Land Raider. Even then against Necrons its the only thing in our armory that can take out a Monolith.

In all honesty I thought your first list was quite a bit better than the current one.

I have yet to find a situation where a 5 man squad of bloodletters has done anything more than die. Using them as a transport of a herald could work. But in the end it all the bloodletters will die to any kind of ranged fire before they get into combat. I find the deathstar unit to be more effective. Especially the way you had it set up.

Exchanging 5 man horror squad for 5 man plaguebearer squad is just what tactics you want to use. 5 man horror with bolt can actualy accomplish something during the game. When the bolt does kill something that squad earns its points back. Plaguebearers pretty much just sit and take fire but are generally good at not dying. Put a 5 man PB squad in cover and send them to the ground. 3+ cover with 4+ FNP at toughness 5 is rough to kill. Depends on what you want.

3 soul grinders does work well. With 3 you should get at least one tounge off a turn, however their model is huge. Remember they still need to deepstrike and they can be a pain.

Hey Yermom!

I'm not qualified to critique a daemon list, I just have a question:

Why not take some of those flamer things that auto-glance, auto-pen on a 4+? Those wreak havoc with my battlewagons; wouldn't they beat up a land raider too? Or screamers?

cough soulgrinders AND skulltaker can kill a landraider

skulltaker= S6 on the charge

6+D6+D3 for rending

rends on a 4+

SweetLou wrote:cough soulgrinders AND skulltaker can kill a landraider

skulltaker= S6 on the charge

6+D6+D3 for rending

rends on a 4+

He doesn't rend against vehicles on a 4+.