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Why does a predator only hava a choice between an plain old autocannon and a TL Lascannon? There should be more weapon options.
And how come a turret that can have a TL Lascannon can only have a single autocannon? Autocannon is half the gun that lascannon is. It should atleast be TL Autocannon. Or have Extra Shots. One of the two. I just think that a vehicle like the predator wouldnt have a single autocannon as its base armament.

And why can't predators take flamestorm cannons for their sponsoon guns? Oh well, what's done is done. Instead of ranting on an existing vehicle, why don't you just create your own version of what the predator should be? After all, this is the proposed rules section.

because it comes with the option to have two heavy bolters?

Blitza da warboy wrote:because it comes with the option to have two heavy bolters?

My comment was meant to be sarcastic. Obviously it failed.

i'd be happy with a plasma cannon turret for a predator....

The really interesting thing is that the original configuration, an Autocannon backed up by Lascannon sponsons, is now the optimal configuration.

Really?

I thought the Dakka Pred was the original, if only because it's the least technologically advanced.

I'm talking model-wise. Google a picture of the Rogue Trader Predator.

To make a new pred varient, won't the imperium need a STC?
There an unimaginative bunch...
Plus they've forgotten how to build certain things...

But you'd think someone would say 'why don't we just swap the weapons?' but off course, that would be heresy.

dayve110 wrote:To make a new pred varient, won't the imperium need a STC?

STC's allow them to mass produce things without having to figure them out for themselves, and are the Adeptus Mechanicus-approved method of introducing 'new' technology... but Marine Chapters have been known to innovate in the past... The Baal Predator and the Predator Annihilator are both the result of Marine Chapters saying 'Yeah, it's pretty good... but what if we did this...'

I'm waiting on the Space Puppies to make a Pred that has a plasma cannon that fires twice. They made the Annihilator, I expect them to make the Decimator. (Lame I know)

Exactly, STCs are needed for the most advanced technology, but some technology (like las technology) is developed by the Imperium in a way. But yes, you'll be amazed how much variety the Imperium gets by just swapping different weapons configurations on various tank chassis. Plus, don't forget that lots of specialized tanks were developed by the Imperials fighting a battle and realizing: "Feth, we need something to beat this situation." That is where the Vindicator came from IIRC.

Hmmm proposed Predator

"Avenger"

T-L Autocannon
T-L Heavy Bolters
Frag Launchers


"Dominator"

Double Plasma Cannon turret mount
T-L Plasma Cannon sponsons


"Harbinger of Doom"

Volcano Cannon
Hurricane Bolters

ChrisWWII wrote:Exactly, STCs are needed for the most advanced technology, but some technology (like las technology) is developed by the Imperium in a way. But yes, you'll be amazed how much variety the Imperium gets by just swapping different weapons configurations on various tank chassis. Plus, don't forget that lots of specialized tanks were developed by the Imperials fighting a battle and realizing: "Feth, we need something to beat this situation." That is where the Vindicator came from IIRC.

originally yes, but it was made into STC shortly after, as for the baal predator it IS STC just the blood angels won't give the STC to the mechanicus

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
originally yes, but it was made into STC shortly after, as for the baal predator it IS STC just the blood angels won't give the STC to the mechanicus

I think you're right about the Baal Predator, and that slipped my mind. But I don't think the Imperium can make any new STCs, and can only copy the pretty pictures from the STCs they already have into their manufactorum.

ChrisWWII wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
originally yes, but it was made into STC shortly after, as for the baal predator it IS STC just the blood angels won't give the STC to the mechanicus

I think you're right about the Baal Predator, and that slipped my mind. But I don't think the Imperium can make any new STCs, and can only copy the pretty pictures from the STCs they already have into their manufactorum.

however the vindicator was made before the imperium ever existed that info is in imperial armor volume 2

According to the C:SM entry for the vindicator, it was formed during the HH.

Conflicting sources. Again. *Sigh*

I'd guess you're right. I've never read the Imperial Armor books, and most of my info comes from lexicanum, and according to them...

Lexicanum wrote: The first Vindicator tanks were converted from Rhino APCs during the subjugation of Rostern I, early in the Horus Heresy, and were quickly adopted by both sides.

NostrilOfTerror wrote:Why does a predator only hava a choice between an plain old autocannon and a TL Lascannon? There should be more weapon options.

Be sure to tell every non-SM player you meet that GW is slacking off on delivering variety for Space Marines. They should update the codex right away! Not to mention the new model kits...

What other weapons do you need? Whatever they are, you can get them somewhere else in your list.

NostrilOfTerror wrote:And how come a turret that can have a TL Lascannon can only have a single autocannon? Autocannon is half the gun that lascannon is. It should atleast be TL Autocannon. Or have Extra Shots. One of the two.

Actually, AC and TL-LC are about the same amount of gun. See, you've got to chop the AC barrel in half, since it's longer. Then, if you put the two halves side by side, it's pretty close to the TL-LC. Or were you talking about stats? Oh, and the AC says Heavy 2, right in the weapon profile, so I guess it only gets "extra shot." Really, it's only one shot away from being pluralized. No big deal, right?


Really, the whole AC=TL-LC is an unfair comparison, from the start. Two different weapons for two different (possibly with some overlap) purposes, each with a different point cost. For a game that arguably already suffers from balance issues, disregarding such basic considerations in favor of "make my tank do everything for free" makes this sound like ill-conceived whining. Of course, I would never suggest that is what this thread was...

oadie wrote:

NostrilOfTerror wrote:Why does a predator only hava a choice between an plain old autocannon and a TL Lascannon? There should be more weapon options.

Be sure to tell every non-SM player you meet that GW is slacking off on delivering variety for Space Marines. They should update the codex right away! Not to mention the new model kits...

What other weapons do you need? Whatever they are, you can get them somewhere else in your list.

NostrilOfTerror wrote:And how come a turret that can have a TL Lascannon can only have a single autocannon? Autocannon is half the gun that lascannon is. It should atleast be TL Autocannon. Or have Extra Shots. One of the two.

Actually, AC and TL-LC are about the same amount of gun. See, you've got to chop the AC barrel in half, since it's longer. Then, if you put the two halves side by side, it's pretty close to the TL-LC. Or were you talking about stats? Oh, and the AC says Heavy 2, right in the weapon profile, so I guess it only gets "extra shot." Really, it's only one shot away from being pluralized. No big deal, right?


Really, the whole AC=TL-LC is an unfair comparison, from the start. Two different weapons for two different (possibly with some overlap) purposes, each with a different point cost. For a game that arguably already suffers from balance issues, disregarding such basic considerations in favor of "make my tank do everything for free" makes this sound like ill-conceived whining. Of course, I would never suggest that is what this thread was...

linked autocannons get 4 shots as per imperial guard codex

Back when autocannons were blast weapons (second edition and earlier, IIRC) the classic loadout made more sense (and felt more like a proper tank).

Jack

Jackmojo wrote:Back when autocannons were blast weapons (second edition and earlier, IIRC) the classic loadout made more sense (and felt more like a proper tank).

1st edition autocannons were crazy, S8 D6W -3 save and sustained fire, 1" blast early on then no blast then might have added blast back in 2nd. Sustained fire meant that if you successfully hit and wounded you shot again, and again until you didn't hit or wound (whether they made saves or not), and there was no 'shoot only at one unit' rule. Assault and auto cannons could clear an army off the table if you got lucky!

insaniak wrote:

dayve110 wrote:To make a new pred varient, won't the imperium need a STC?

STC's allow them to mass produce things without having to figure them out for themselves, and are the Adeptus Mechanicus-approved method of introducing 'new' technology... but Marine Chapters have been known to innovate in the past... The Baal Predator and the Predator Annihilator are both the result of Marine Chapters saying 'Yeah, it's pretty good... but what if we did this...'

Actually, the Baal Predator was an STC rescued from a planet that the Blood Angels were supposed to give up to the Adeptus Mechanicus, but the Blood Angels said go screw and used it themselves...

jy2 wrote:

Blitza da warboy wrote:because it comes with the option to have two heavy bolters?

My comment was meant to be sarcastic. Obviously it failed.

it wasn't meant at your post, it was meant for the OP

NostrilOfTerror wrote:
And how come a turret that can have a TL Lascannon can only have a single autocannon? Autocannon is half the gun that lascannon is. It should at least be TL Autocannon. Or have Extra Shots. One of the two. I just think that a vehicle like the predator wouldnt have a single autocannon as its base armament.

Because buying the Lascannon turret costs almost as much as the tank itself.