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I have to say I'm a little confused about certain wording involving spells. The specific case I have in mind is the Rune Maw standard for Ogre Kingdoms. I can see how augment, hex and magic missile spells all target a unit, but how about certain death and shadow spells?

For instance, say you were to use spirit leech against a character in an ogre unit with the Rune Maw (but not the model bearing the Rune Maw), could it be redirected?

Another example, which I'm more anxious to find out since I use it more is Pit of Shades. Would the Rune Maw get to redirect since you just place the template anywhere on the table within 24"? It's not targeting as such and I think it's ambiguous at best.

I have Ogre Stronghold results for this from a while back but i'll wait for the responses here.

May as well give the results...not a whole lot of activity here.

Perhaps you could post the runemaw abilities?

Personally, I am not familiar enough with it to be able to comment, but other posters might be able to help with a little more information.

If something protects a unit when it is being targetted, anything that affects but does not target the unit will bypass that protection.

Not exactly difficult that one....

My point is do the spells target? And the Rune Maw isn't exactly specific either.

This is simmilar to the thread i did on warmachines and the Pha's Protection spell, the consensus was that things that don't choose the unit as target are immune to such effects

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311294.page

Ok, here is the first concerning death spells and Runemaw. Consensus, Runemaw covers the unit and individuals in the unit.

http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=16692.0

Here is the second on PS.As currently played, bad luck Ogres.

http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=16804.0

The link posted about the warmachines actually goes against the way I am currently playing it. With Pit, it doesn't mention targeting the unit, hence I figured bad luck Ogres. However, if the blast is over the ogres (or the centre is), it is making the assumption that it targets the unit.

WHOOPIE!!! I'm pretty easy dude, if I am relying on borderline interpretations of the rules to win/play, the game is gone anyway. On the other hand, not a big fan of the "I WIN" nature of a spell like PS against retardedly low I armies.

I know for sure that purple sun doesn't target, but PoS is really ambiguous. I'm willing to make a compromise...let me just flick through the book.

Still ambiguous. Direct damage should target, but you are allowed to place it anywhere, even in an empty space. Not sure how to call it.

We can discuss it next time our forces meet.

HoverBoy wrote:This is simmilar to the thread i did on warmachines and the Pha's Protection spell, the consensus was that things that don't choose the unit as target are immune to such effects

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311294.page

+1, I'd say if you are going to discuss it and come to your own ruling until you get a FAQ that this makes sense (although I haven't read the wording for the ogre items in question). But, I'd say RAI, if you place PoS over a unit, you are targeting that unit. If you are placing it right next to the unit, you aren't targeting the unit.

Post from http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=16804.0;topicseen

I'm guessing this guy is 2nd language speaker but appears to know his stuff.

"It's not a grey idea. VERY clear

ALL direct damage must target a unit. He don't have choices. At best he can target a gnoblar unit and hopping that the scatter will bring it on the runemaw unit. Other than that, ANY direct damage spell must choose a target. It's clearly in the the RAW. Go see the last pages of the BRB, find the table that show characteristic for each spell type.

That let only vortex that can hurt a unit with rune maw. Hex, direct damage, magic missile, etc. They all target a unit. Don't care where he put the template, he must choose a target, and make sure that the pit touch that unit. If he try to put the center out of unit but still touching it, it's still the target.

One thing that can be seen as grey zone: the spell that make a line of 6D6 wide. Did the mage target ANY unit between him and the maximum range of 36", or did he pick ONE target in the same line. Talk with your opponent at the beginning and make clear."

Thoughts, comments?

A basic rule of spell casting is you must nominate a target. THe only exception which definitely does not require a target is Vortexes.

So *in general* you cannot not-target a unit.

Now - pit of shades. Yes, it is direct damage, so you must pick a unit. HOWEVER you are *not* required to place the template over the "targetted" unit - you are explicitly allowed to place it ANYWHERE within range. as such if you have a gnoblar unit with 24" (and the other restrictions e.g. arc) you can declare them as your target, then place the template over the Bull unit. This does not trigger runemaw, as they are explicitly NOT the target.

NOw, this sounds fairly like an oversight to me, but RAW the above quote is wrong.

Nos, you are right, it does sound like an oversight. I don't mind how we play it as long as we make some kind of permanent agreement at our flgs.