Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm having trouble with my friend's Chaos Space Marine list, with Plague Marines, a Demon Prince, and one squad of 2 Obliterators, and two squads of 1 Obliterators. I'm using a Blood Angels all comers list with Assault Troops, a Librarian with Sanguine Shield and Sword of Sanguinius, three rhinos, two sanguinary priests, and two Predators.

Basically, the Plague Marines are resilient, so they eat up some of my firing/assault - fine, they cost a lot, I get it (same with the Demon Prince).

But what I don't get are Obliterators. They're 75 points for something that can deepstrike in, and completely ruin any army in the entire game, whether they're horde, mech, or semi-horde. If they deepstrike far away - they lascannon and shut down my Predators - if they come in at mid-range, they plasma cannon and kill 6-7 marines per turn - if they come in closer, they multi-melta and instantly blow up a vehicle/shut it down - they INSTANTLY make up their points when they deepstrike in given that all their guns have such high range, that you're always going to be able to pick a good scatter.

My friend recommended bringing tons of Predators with lascannons, and just hoping they fail a +4 cover save or +5 invulnerable save to be insta-killed, but that sounds like counter-picking to me.

Also, I don't know if 75 points is really worth spending all that time and energy on as opposed to stopping a Rhino full of things that will tarpit for the entire game.

Basically I just don't see any downsides to them: they're decently costed for what they do (an entire devastator squad with ONE lascannon that can't move is around 115 points): they have two wounds: and they can morph multi-meltas to instantly take down a 150-170 point vehicle and make their points back, double: what more could you want?

Oblis are pretty badass but they can be taken down with bolters (10+).

Str 8+/AP1/2 Weapons.
Instant death is the way to go IMO, or a plasma barrage.

The oppurtunity cost is another reason why the Oblits are so nice, but they are quite fragile among the options available in the Hvy Support option just for not being an AV target, as wierd as that may look/sound.

As for what more could we want of oblits? Let's not go down that road .

Strength 8+, AP 2 weapons. They are susceptible to instant death and only come in small numbers per unit.

And Deep Striking Mishaps can easily eliminate that Obliterator squad for you.

Well for starters I'm not sure how Obliterators are shutting down your Predators reliably with Lascannons (not great odds) or killing 6-7 Marine per turn with Plasma Cannons (you should be inside a vehicle most of the time or very spread out if you are outside or you should be in combat).

Obliterators are pretty good for their points but considering they are one of the strongest things you are going to have to deal with in a Chaos list you shouldn't be complaining too much (i.e not much else is going to cause you much issue, the Chaos dex isn't that strong particularly compared to the BA dex). Deep Striking them in isn't fool proof in any case and even a single MM can still fail to kill a vehicle, you can miss, fail to pen, scatter out of 2D6 range etc. I would happily exchange a Rhino for a Obliterator though, thats 35pts vs 75pts and that 75pts is much more threatening (and important to the Chaos player). Yes they are much more threatening/effective against more expensive vehicles, but if you are running vehicles that expensive then you should be prepared to put some effort into keeping them alive by screening them with more expendable vehicles/units (both from DS and direct fire).

Obliterators aren't particularly survivable in most cases, you can torrent them to death relatively easily (they usually drop in close which makes it easier, bolters will do the job) or ID them if you have the right weapons. For Blood Angels you have plenty of options, most obvious being run over and beat them to death in assault. You should also be running plenty of meltaguns in your assault squads which can ID them with only a 5++ to fall back on. In both cases range shouldn't be an issue if they have DS in, otherwise try and hit them with what long ranged firepower you have while everything else closes in (which is what a BA list is probably going to be doing anyway).

There isn't much point in trying to directly compare units across codices in any case, but Devestators are closer to use in Havocs and far superior (i.e cheaper). Used as Deep Striking MM units Obliterators are no better than Marine MM/HF Land Speeders (you usually expect them to die in any case but the Speeder is faster after the drop and not much less survivable) which don't take up Elite slots. They are probably worse than Deep Striking Dreads with MM and are in a completely different league to Drop Pod combi-melta Sternguard units.

If you spread out properly, a plasma template will only hit one Marine. How he's hitting 6-7 is beyond me.


Oblits are very expensive for what they do. 150 points for 2 lascannon shots a turn? Pfft, you can buy a possessed Vindicator for less. The things are susceptible to instadeath like everyone is saying...just hit 'em with enough AP2 S8+ fire and they'll start failing coversaves.

Powerguy wrote: Deep Striking them in isn't fool proof in any case and even a single MM can still fail to kill a vehicle, you can miss, fail to pen, scatter out of 2D6 range etc. I would happily exchange a Rhino for a Obliterator though, thats 35pts vs 75pts and that 75pts is much more threatening (and important to the Chaos player). ... Used as Deep Striking MM units Obliterators are no better than Marine MM/HF Land Speeders (you usually expect them to die in any case but the Speeder is faster after the drop and not much less survivable) which don't take up Elite slots. They are probably worse than Deep Striking Dreads with MM and are in a completely different league to Drop Pod combi-melta Sternguard units.

Actually, obliterators can use a chaos icon to deepstrike without scattering. That allows them to set up perfect shots with, for example, a twin-linked meltagun within 6" of the side armor of a vehicle like a predator with no cover. That's as close as you can get to a sure thing with antitank fire, so they are much better than other deepstriking melta units.

But I agree with powerguy that you're either going to have to screen the tanks you don't want killed, or stop the icons before they get close. If they do get close, meltaguns nferno pistols are the best answer. Remember you don't need to be at half range to kill oblits with melta. Just light em up until they fail a 5++ or cover save and die.

If I see them in a bad position I try to kill them with ap2-fire. If they are covered and spaced, I ignore them and go after Rhinos instead. Receiving 9 lascannons a turn does not lose me the game at any point. Let Rhinos slip through my fire arcs does.

Obliterators can really be a pain.
In my Slaaneshi army I usually field 6 of them and my enemy usually have trouble with them.

You play BA. That's fine. Then try Vanguard Marines.
They should be able to charge the Oblits upon arrival, thanks to heroic intervention and DoA.

Something to keep in mind about the original poster's post is that he's complaining about the Obliterators being deployed via Deep Strike. This is the smart way to use them because it means they wouldn't be sitting around ready to get wiped out by passing Plasma/Melta/Heroic Intervention.

Its hard to anything against deep striking Oblits since they have right weapons for the right situations.
Maybe staying in reserve, as a DoA army will do, is an answer.

Anti-Obliterator tactics are basically the same that work against any terminator.

- Volume of fire. Force the owner to roll enough die and he is bound to get a "1" eventually.
- Mobbing. Obliterators do not like to get swarmed by enemies that outnumber them by a great factor.
- Instant Death causing hits, preferably AP 1 or 2. 5++ ( or a possible 4+ Cover ) is a cold comfort.

Lascannons, melta/plasma (as already mentioned), the good ol' tried an true "run up and bash 'em in the face", power weap's and hordes of attacks (ork boyz for example) tend to rip them up. Oblits would like to be in combat (maybe) if they charge into an ongoing melee, they do get swarmed quite quickly. True they have two wounds, but they are only t4. You just have to hit him with twice with a meltagun (maybe a squad that has two! The possibilities!) and you're probably going to kill him.