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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I honestly just take three formations: Canoptek Harvest, Destroyer Cult, and the Judicator. While the 4+++ is missed, the offensive output makes the army fun.
If you could throw in Deathbringer flight as well, you'd have some serious damage output.
(Conclave of the Burning One would also devastating, but not as easy to pull off)
You might be able to do that in a 2000+ game, but it'd be VERY hard to pull off.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
krodarklorr wrote: Am I the only weird one here that wants to run a full Judicator Battalion and someday a full Destroyer Cult instead of min/maxing?
Hard to fit a full D Cult into a specific points value: Mostly because of kitting out your Lord, and especially because your Lord has no effective unit to attach himself to.
Double cult with units of 3 regular and 1 heavy, plus the dedicated heavy units and a unit with two attached lords to form a functional assault party works better. Squeezes into that weird 1850 standard American forum goers seem to swear by, and allows a Deathbringer flight or expansion with a few spare Destroyers at 2000.
Destroyer Cult (935pts)
Destroyer Lord [Phase Shifter, Phylactery, The Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe]
Destroyers [6x Destroyer]
Destroyers [3x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer]
Destroyers [3x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer]
Heavy Destroyers [3x Heavy Destroyer]
Destroyer Cult (910pts)
Destroyer Lord [Phase Shifter, The Veil of Darkness, Warscythe]
Destroyers [6x Destroyer]
Destroyers [3x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer]
Destroyers [3x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer]
Heavy Destroyers [3x Heavy Destroyer]
While it certainly looks very killy, it lacks versatility.
It'd be a hard "rock" to a MEQ "scissors", but hordes "paper" would over run it. No flyer defense, too.
krodarklorr wrote: Am I the only weird one here that wants to run a full Judicator Battalion and someday a full Destroyer Cult instead of min/maxing?
Hard to fit a full D Cult into a specific points value: Mostly because of kitting out your Lord, and especially because your Lord has no effective unit to attach himself to.
Double cult with units of 3 regular and 1 heavy, plus the dedicated heavy units and a unit with two attached lords to form a functional assault party works better. Squeezes into that weird 1850 standard American forum goers seem to swear by, and allows a Deathbringer flight or expansion with a few spare Destroyers at 2000.
Well I don't play 1850, I always do 2000. I've made lists with a full cult and a decent Reclamation Legion to go with it.
I can see the attractiveness of not taking a decurion or RL. However I've played in games and the RL has simply been the bedrock of my armour. In most games at least 50% (normally higher) of my army is RL. 5 units of warriors, kitted out blades, a decent overlord and 2 ghost arks are immense. They can sheild any other killy formation like the judicator bn long enough for them to be effective.
krodarklorr wrote: Am I the only weird one here that wants to run a full Judicator Battalion and someday a full Destroyer Cult instead of min/maxing?
I run a D-Cult that is about 825pt, its pretty awesome. You could beef it up with 2 more destroyers in each unit, but 5 destroyers and a heavy destroyer in each unit is just overkill. I really enjoy the 3 normal +1 heavy combo, then a unit of 3 heavies. They do some serious work.
Yeah, heavy DCult is just very limiting. But, if you play in a meta where there are lots of MEQ, it's the bomb diggity*.
I would never make an army purely of DCult if I was being even semi-serious, even though I love Destroyers. You need small arms fire to supplement them, which is why they work so well with the Reclamation Legion or CAD. Or, you know, Canoptek Harvest if you want to abuse the two strongest Formations in the book
Yeah, my go-to list is that Dcult, 3x3 tomb blades, then a metric buttload of warriors. What the destroyers don't kill, will die through weight of fire.
I really like a unit of 20 warriors with a d-lord. PF on a blob that big, is scary to most things.
Use an obelisk as a counter to jet bikes. If you use the formation for the guaranteed deep strike, you can land next to a unit, spew three tesla spheres into their pansy patooties, then, when they try and run, the field will force dangerous terrain checks on em.
It might just work.
Fear is the mind-killer. The little death that leads to total obliteration.
Use an obelisk as a counter to jet bikes. If you use the formation for the guaranteed deep strike, you can land next to a unit, spew three tesla spheres into their pansy patooties, then, when they try and run, the field will force dangerous terrain checks on em.
It might just work.
The formation only gives scatter-less deep strike to the Monoliths if they land next to the Obelisk. The Obelisk itself scatters as normal.
Though yes, if you can get close to them, it's decent at shutting down their mobility, at a 1/18 chance to just kill a bike if it moves. But that's not really all too great.
Use an obelisk as a counter to jet bikes. If you use the formation for the guaranteed deep strike, you can land next to a unit, spew three tesla spheres into their pansy patooties, then, when they try and run, the field will force dangerous terrain checks on em.
It might just work.
If the Obelisk had the ability for perfect Deep Strike, I'd actually consider it to be an alright option.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Use an obelisk as a counter to jet bikes. If you use the formation for the guaranteed deep strike, you can land next to a unit, spew three tesla spheres into their pansy patooties, then, when they try and run, the field will force dangerous terrain checks on em.
It might just work.
If the Obelisk had the ability for perfect Deep Strike, I'd actually consider it to be an alright option.
I dunno, this would actually be a hard counter to Scatriders. They have no way to deal with it besides Wraithknights with D. So, bring a living tomb with 1 Monolith (AP3 Large Blast will eat Wraithguard and Scatbikers), and a Destroyer cult to deal with the Wraithknights.
I would definitely try it. Most metas don't really assume someone to bring 2 AV14 Deep Striking Vehicles.
krodarklorr wrote: Most metas don't really assume someone to bring 2 AV14 Deep Striking Vehicles.
And if you angle the monolith right, you could pull in some scythe lychguard and have them go to town on a near-by wraith thing.
And use Nemesor Zandrekh with deepstrike command abilities to ensure the monolith's success.
Fear is the mind-killer. The little death that leads to total obliteration.
krodarklorr wrote: Most metas don't really assume someone to bring 2 AV14 Deep Striking Vehicles.
And if you angle the monolith right, you could pull in some scythe lychguard and have them go to town on a near-by wraith thing.
And use Nemesor Zandrekh with deepstrike command abilities to ensure the monolith's success.
Have zandrekh in that scythe lychguard unit and have obyron in another unit so he can use his VOD to come in scatter free as well with yet another unit. have just a big ol' deepstrike conga line
Edit: Maybe obyron with a full unit of flayed ones?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/21 10:15:41
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
krodarklorr wrote: Most metas don't really assume someone to bring 2 AV14 Deep Striking Vehicles.
And if you angle the monolith right, you could pull in some scythe lychguard and have them go to town on a near-by wraith thing.
And use Nemesor Zandrekh with deepstrike command abilities to ensure the monolith's success.
Have zandrekh in that scythe lychguard unit and have obyron in another unit so he can use his VOD to come in scatter free as well with yet another unit. have just a big ol' deepstrike conga line
Edit: Maybe obyron with a full unit of flayed ones?
Thats how I ran it, used this list for a NOVA prep tourney last weekend. Went 2-1, lost 15-16 on round 3 at the 1st table. Zahn and Overlord goes with one lychguard unit, Obyron and Orikan goes with the other. T1 I can veil one unit, then use Obyron to DS the other unit without scatter.
krodarklorr wrote: Most metas don't really assume someone to bring 2 AV14 Deep Striking Vehicles.
And if you angle the monolith right, you could pull in some scythe lychguard and have them go to town on a near-by wraith thing.
And use Nemesor Zandrekh with deepstrike command abilities to ensure the monolith's success.
Have zandrekh in that scythe lychguard unit and have obyron in another unit so he can use his VOD to come in scatter free as well with yet another unit. have just a big ol' deepstrike conga line
Edit: Maybe obyron with a full unit of flayed ones?
Thats how I ran it, used this list for a NOVA prep tourney last weekend. Went 2-1, lost 15-16 on round 3 at the 1st table. Zahn and Overlord goes with one lychguard unit, Obyron and Orikan goes with the other. T1 I can veil one unit, then use Obyron to DS the other unit without scatter.
Royal Court-345
Overlord:Veil of Darkness, Res Orb
Orikan the Diviner
Vargard Obyron
Did you really find such small units of Lychguard to be that effective? I feel like 5 Scytheguard would just get obliterated by any amount of focus fire.
Also, were any of your games against Eldar? I'm curious as to how this would hold up to a Wraithknight or two.
Royal Court-345
Overlord:Veil of Darkness, Res Orb
Orikan the Diviner
Vargard Obyron
Well, I personally feel that the idea behind this massive deepstrike is to use obelisks and monoliths to get an obscene amount of stuff in the enemy's face.
Personally, having thought a night, I would deepstrike the monolith close to either a good softish unit (for flayed ones) or some absolute bastion of resistance (for the scythe lychguard(with attached Nemesor)). Then you use Oberion to bring up whatever variety of reinforcements you need turn three. Add MSU warriors in ark for objectives. Personally, I feel wraith would be superfluous in a list like that, but eh.
Thoughts?
Fear is the mind-killer. The little death that leads to total obliteration.
Did you really find such small units of Lychguard to be that effective? I feel like 5 Scytheguard would just get obliterated by any amount of focus fire.
Also, were any of your games against Eldar? I'm curious as to how this would hold up to a Wraithknight or two.
NOVA won't have any Wriathknights. No Garg. creatures or super heavies allowed.
Did you really find such small units of Lychguard to be that effective? I feel like 5 Scytheguard would just get obliterated by any amount of focus fire.
Also, were any of your games against Eldar? I'm curious as to how this would hold up to a Wraithknight or two.
NOVA won't have any Wriathknights. No Garg. creatures or super heavies allowed.
Now that's a tournament I'd be down for.
And small Lychguard units are just as good in my experience. I only own 5 of each variant (for now, muaha), and my 5 Sword and board Lychguard have almost never completely died. The only time was against a D-slapper Bloodthirster, because 3-4 6s were rolled. They've taken 1500+ points of Tau shooting for numerous turns walking up the board and lived.
krodarklorr wrote: Most metas don't really assume someone to bring 2 AV14 Deep Striking Vehicles.
And if you angle the monolith right, you could pull in some scythe lychguard and have them go to town on a near-by wraith thing.
And use Nemesor Zandrekh with deepstrike command abilities to ensure the monolith's success.
Have zandrekh in that scythe lychguard unit and have obyron in another unit so he can use his VOD to come in scatter free as well with yet another unit. have just a big ol' deepstrike conga line
Edit: Maybe obyron with a full unit of flayed ones?
Thats how I ran it, used this list for a NOVA prep tourney last weekend. Went 2-1, lost 15-16 on round 3 at the 1st table. Zahn and Overlord goes with one lychguard unit, Obyron and Orikan goes with the other. T1 I can veil one unit, then use Obyron to DS the other unit without scatter.
Royal Court-345
Overlord:Veil of Darkness, Res Orb
Orikan the Diviner
Vargard Obyron
Did you really find such small units of Lychguard to be that effective? I feel like 5 Scytheguard would just get obliterated by any amount of focus fire.
Also, were any of your games against Eldar? I'm curious as to how this would hold up to a Wraithknight or two.
Pretty effective, all my opponents avoided them like the plague, I think I lost maybe 1 or 2 lychguard all tournament. Reroll saves and reanimations of 1, tanking with Obyron and Zahn was awesome. No wraith knights and garg creatures in Nova format.
I didn't play any Eldars that tournament, but I did had a Nova practice game with a friend earlier in the week.
He ran a CAD, Autarch with 5 or 6 units of 4 Scatbikes, 3x2 war walkers, and a Necron Allied of some immortals and 6 wraiths, I won 17-14, max primary and secondary. I think I lost 2 lychguard all game, but I lose everything to his superior fire power except a unit of wraiths and the lychguards.
Okay, you know how the optimal number of Warriors and Flayed Ones is 13? (to best avoid getting wiped from failed Ld tests)
Is there an optimal number of models for other units?
Wraiths is a hotly contested one (just 3? All 6?)
Destroyer Cult units, too (3x 2D+1H? 3x 3D+1H? 1x 5D/2D+1H?)
Then there's Lychguard
And Tomb Blades
Etc
Etc
Alternatively, if you wanted to be REALLY ridiculous, you could drop one Doom Scythe and replace all three Tomb Blade units with three empty Night Scythes, giving you ten flyers in a 1850 list (using the remaining points to bump one Immortal squad up to 7 and giving the accompanying Lord a Gauntlet)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/23 10:53:52
I don't get the impression Zahndrekh is actually particularly useful, given his wargear, points cost and the fact that most of the good warlord traits are useful for turn 1, plus most of the abilities he copies from enemies being rare or situational.
Reroll ones on shooting is good, but you could replicate much the same effect with a 20 warrior blob and a Destroyer Lord. For cheaper and with a defensive Warscythe. And a warlord trait slot still left open.
Bring this up as I tried to build a Decurion for a 5000 points list (me vs two 2500 lists) and including an Orikanstar, a Burning Conclave and two Destroyer Cults led to 9 characters, which got to a ridiculous point sink level leading to me scrapping the Reclamation Legion, Conclave and Royal Court in favour of a more flexible Mephrit detachment.
Fits my playstyle better anyhow, was only even considering the absurd Decurion army-wide buff because the points of the game were so high and I know one of my opponents is an Eldar guy without qualms about taking free army-wide buffs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/23 10:39:04
Alternatively, if you wanted to be REALLY ridiculous, you could drop one Doom Scythe and replace all three Tomb Blade units with three empty Night Scythes, giving you ten flyers in a 1850 list (using the remaining points to bump one Immortal squad up to 7 and giving the accompanying Lord a Gauntlet)
Got no problem against flyers, not in most Nova missions. For example, 5 flyrants are just as devastating as scatbikes but they can't contest table quarters while in the air, so i'll be racking up the primary points and all I had to do hide and stay in the ruins.
Scatbikes are really annoying. The firepower doesn't really phase us too badly (considering, you know, Necrons), but the insane mobility on ObSec Troops is nuts. People used to complain about Night Scythe ObSec spam, but with Maelstrom and Progressive Objectives that's not nearly as much of an issue nowadays. On the other hand, Eldar ObSec Bikes able to move 48" per turn in any direction they feel like, or 12 + 2d6" per turn while shooting is really insane mobility when it comes to objective based games.
While I hate to keep the proliferation of Wraiths up (as I think it's boring when armies all focus on the same 1-3 units in their books), they really are the best at dealing with this sort of thing. Moving fast into position, denying space or charging things that get close, they really are the all around all-stars of the book.
Hey guys I heard there is a powerful deathstar unit that Necrons can make with wraiths and orikan can you guys elaborate and tell me its strengths and weaknesses?
CKO wrote: Hey guys I heard there is a powerful deathstar unit that Necrons can make with wraiths and orikan can you guys elaborate and tell me its strengths and weaknesses?
Orikan joins a unit of Wraiths from the Canoptek Harvest formation. If the Spyder gets off Reanimation Protocols, then Orikan's ability kicks in, which lets any Model in his unit with RP reroll all Saving Throws of 1. So Wraiths, having 3++ T5 2W, now get to reroll 1s and have 4++.
The downsides are that Orikan slows down the Wraiths with his Infantry status, and that if they lose RP (Spyder dies, or get out of range, etc), then they lose the Reroll and Orikan is not doing much for them. So focus down the Spyder, which is how you deal with Canoptek Harvest in most situations.
CKO wrote: So the re-roll is only for reanimation protocol rolls?
No, it's reroll saves. Armor, Invuln, and Cover. However, it only applies to units that have the Reanimation Protocols rule, which Wraiths don't except sometimes in the Formation.
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