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I'd been thinking the same thing, actually. Flayed Ones seem like a really great speedbump unit (can easily take 10+ of them) and cheap backfield objective holder (5 for 65pts), and they can be taken in a decurion without other incongruous tax units (no formation, just a spare unit). Their one odd drawback is that they are one of the very few units in the book that doesn't get Move Through Cover, which is really kinda crappy, but not enough of a drawback to make me think they won't still be great. I'm working on converting up a batch of 40 of them, and plan to experiment on a few different ways of fielding them.

Maybe try a full unit of 20 with Zandrekh for zealot/fearless to prevent overrun.
Maybe try 3 autonomous units of 13, cuz they need at least 4 to die to force a check.
Maybe try 3 units of 10 as infiltrating speedbumps and 2 units of 5 for backfield objective squatting.

I don't think I'd ever deepstrike them, as they work as either a combat unit or an area denial unit, and they can't do either when they're off the board.

Infiltrate seems like the best idea for them, as they need to start out up-close if they're ever going to actually get into combat as foot-sloggers without Move Through Cover, plus it lets me put them somewhere other than my already-congested deployment zone edge.

Probably won't have them ready to field for at least another month or so, though. Custom-cutting every set of flayer claws is time-consuming. And then I have to greenstuff some skin capes onto them. But I'll post my experiences with them once I get them onto a table.

Infiltrate for sure. Makes a good distraction that can't really be ignored as you March everything else up the board.

Here's a wargear question, instead:
Anyone have any luck with the Nightmare Shroud's secondary ability?
Just watched a battle report where a large unit of Drones with an attached Commander were run off the table via the forced leadership test.
In the old codex I had used a Despair-tek who specialized in making things run away, so seeing it happen there made me a little nostalgic (problem now is they turned it into a one use only ability. Completely unnecessary).
Anyway, having a couple of things that can now reduce leadership (Deceiver, Deathbringer flight), I figured there must be someone who's figured out something clever with it.
Any examples?

 skoffs wrote:
Here's a wargear question, instead:
Anyone have any luck with the Nightmare Shroud's secondary ability?
Just watched a battle report where a large unit of Drones with an attached Commander were run off the table via the forced leadership test.
In the old codex I had used a Despair-tek who specialized in making things run away, so seeing it happen there made me a little nostalgic (problem now is they turned it into a one use only ability. Completely unnecessary).
Anyway, having a couple of things that can now reduce leadership (Deceiver, Deathbringer flight), I figured there must be someone who's figured out something clever with it.
Any examples?

It's really only taken for the 2+. The second effect is just oddly specific. Nice when it gets off, but you won't often.

 skoffs wrote:
You know who doesn't get discussed much anymore?
Flayed Ones.
Now that they don't suck I'd expected to see a lot more of them, but not so much.

Those people who do use them, what's your preference?
MSU? Large group?
Deployed? Infiltrated? Deep struck? Out flanked?
By themselves? With attached IC? If so, who? Destroyer Lord is kind of a waste of Preferred Enemy, seeing as how they already reroll 1s to wound. Would a combat Lord be worth considering?
Working in conjunction with what other units?
What tactics are there?

Large groups are best. 4+/4+++ isn't a lot, and without Move Through Cover they're not particularly the best at sticking to cover. They're Warrior price, so bring enough that losing a handful isn't going to hurt you too badly. I like to run in blobs of at least around 11. 13 is the magic number, or 17+ if you really want them to be big. A 10-11 man unit is a speedbump, a 20 man unit is a nightmare made flesh.

"MSU" units of 5 don't work, cuz they just die. Though I guess that's 65 points of bullet sponge, if you want to think of it that way. 2-3 units of 9 FOs are small enough to hide around and large enough to take a few hits before going down. Depending on the game, you can infiltrate them right on an objective and just dare the opponent to come, or behind a big LOS blocker in the middle to get a nice "wall".

Infiltrating is usually the best option if you can swing it. Outflanking is ok if you're playing Hammer and Anvil, but on Dawn of War or Vanguard, the board is so wide that coming in on the wrong side can screw you over. If you have to Infiltrate in your own DZ, that can be fine too. If you are running smaller squads of 9, you can try DSing, but don't expect it to work, even with Imotekh. If you do MSU you can put them all in Outflank and expect at least statistically 2 to hit the side you need.

ICs are hard to attach. No IC can start with them because Infiltrate, but if you Infiltrate them in your DZ you can attach on turn 1. But then you're missing out on Infiltrate. A big blob just Infiltrated in front of your DZ can train back enough to be out and also attach on Turn 1, but that's awkward sometimes. Best IC is probably either a Cryptek for extra survivability or Zahndrekh for Fearless. Solar Staff is super great on them, keeps them nice and safe while they march across the board. A supporttek with Chronometron + Solar will keep them nice and safe, but he's all but impossible to get with them. Better to just expect them to be alone imo.

The best way to combo them is with Wraiths, of course. If you have a unit or two of Wraiths zipping up towards an Infiltrated unit of FOs, the opponent has to make a big decision. Or, if the FOs are out of Line of Sight, they can arrive around the same time as the Wraiths for a two-pronged attack. You can also use a Veil/Obyron'd squad of teleporting to do something similar, basically a FO squad by itself out front dies, but if the opponent has to deal with both them and another scary unit in their face, you're in more of a position of power. You almost never want to use FOs alongside a shooty army, unless you're specifically using them as Outflank to get backfield presence later. Which can work, I suppose.

What are peoples thoughts on using nightbringer as a counter to other monstrous creatures. While powers of the C'Tan is random, all of them are dangerous to other monstrous creatures (and some of them are especially so), and gaze of death can eat up a wraith knight on a good/bad roll. Add in fleshbane and a 6 weapon skill, and he seems like a fair match for just about all comers.

 skoffs wrote:
Here's a wargear question, instead:
Anyone have any luck with the Nightmare Shroud's secondary ability?

My bargelord scared a unit of eldar jetbikes off the table once, which made a difference in that game, but it's still just a nice bonus.

 skoffs wrote:
You know who doesn't get discussed much anymore?
Flayed Ones.
Now that they don't suck I'd expected to see a lot more of them, but not so much.

Those people who do use them, what's your preference?
MSU? Large group?
Deployed? Infiltrated? Deep struck? Out flanked?
By themselves? With attached IC? If so, who? Destroyer Lord is kind of a waste of Preferred Enemy, seeing as how they already reroll 1s to wound. Would a combat Lord be worth considering?
Working in conjunction with what other units?
What tactics are there?

That's probably because there's so much other dumb stuff in the game now that Flayed Ones don't seem so bad to most people, or people have simply forgot about them. As for my experience, I usually run 2 squads of 10 or one blob of 20 and Deep Strike them (usually with aid from Imotekh). The only issue I have with them is everyone in my area knows to shoot them and shoot them quick. So, as much as I'd love to roll dice in combat, they usually eat an entire armies worth of shooting and die (not a bad thing, per se, but saddens me).

Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

Wow, yeah I thought most people already thought about that forever ago. That's why I run Judicator Cult + Destroyer Cult for BS10 rerolling everything everywhere.

The only way to abuse it with a Tachyon Arrow is by bringing a Destroyer Lord and putting him with a Lord (with Stalker nearby) or an Overlord.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

Wow, yeah I thought most people already thought about that forever ago. That's why I run Judicator Cult + Destroyer Cult for BS10 rerolling everything everywhere.

The only way to abuse it with a Tachyon Arrow is by bringing a Destroyer Lord and putting him with a Lord (with Stalker nearby) or an Overlord.

Do Destroyer Lords have that option to go with their Warscythe like a regular Overlord? I don't have my codex on me.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

Wow, yeah I thought most people already thought about that forever ago. That's why I run Judicator Cult + Destroyer Cult for BS10 rerolling everything everywhere.

The only way to abuse it with a Tachyon Arrow is by bringing a Destroyer Lord and putting him with a Lord (with Stalker nearby) or an Overlord.

Do Destroyer Lords have that option to go with their Warscythe like a regular Overlord? I don't have my codex on me.

Nope. Destroyer Lords may not take Ranged Weapons.

I recently ran a group of I think 10 flayed ones in a 750pt game. They were surprisingly awesome. They fought 2 TWC (no upgrades) and Arjac. They lost, as it is a lot of damage coming their way, but they did managed to scrape a wound off Arjac and 3 wounds from the TWC, effectively killing 1. I was run down when I lost combat.

I infiltrated mine onto a far objective, my opponent didn't have much shooting and he came to me. The sheer number of attacks is just insane.
I haven't had a chance to try them in a big game, once I do I will report back.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I recently ran a group of I think 10 flayed ones in a 750pt game. They were surprisingly awesome. They fought 2 TWC (no upgrades) and Arjac. They lost, as it is a lot of damage coming their way, but they did managed to scrape a wound off Arjac and 3 wounds from the TWC, effectively killing 1. I was run down when I lost combat.

I infiltrated mine onto a far objective, my opponent didn't have much shooting and he came to me. The sheer number of attacks is just insane.
I haven't had a chance to try them in a big game, once I do I will report back.

Beware. They're typically shot at and killed first. For good reason, mind you. Last night I played a 1000 point with a bud and I used a unit of 7 and a unit of 8 against his Salamanders. They were really the only models he killed, and even then, 2 of them tore threw Sternguard and finished off a ton of Tac marines.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I recently ran a group of I think 10 flayed ones in a 750pt game. They were surprisingly awesome. They fought 2 TWC (no upgrades) and Arjac. They lost, as it is a lot of damage coming their way, but they did managed to scrape a wound off Arjac and 3 wounds from the TWC, effectively killing 1. I was run down when I lost combat.

I infiltrated mine onto a far objective, my opponent didn't have much shooting and he came to me. The sheer number of attacks is just insane.
I haven't had a chance to try them in a big game, once I do I will report back.

Beware. They're typically shot at and killed first. For good reason, mind you. Last night I played a 1000 point with a bud and I used a unit of 7 and a unit of 8 against his Salamanders. They were really the only models he killed, and even then, 2 of them tore threw Sternguard and finished off a ton of Tac marines.

Not necessarily a bad thing. For the price of a Warrior and 4+/RP, they're fairly durable against small arms and will still be pretty difficult to remove from other sources. For small arms fire (worse than AP4, lower than S8), you need to deal 80 wounds to take out a blob of 20. Or, you need to start devoting bigger guns to them. And in my book, that's pretty good even if they don't get to assault. A Battle Cannon equivalent (S8 AP3) is the scariest thing to be shot at them, but then, that's a big gun that they're still getting 5+++ and cover against.

I would not take them outside of the Decurion, as 4+ RP is too good.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

Wow, yeah I thought most people already thought about that forever ago. That's why I run Judicator Cult + Destroyer Cult for BS10 rerolling everything everywhere.

The only way to abuse it with a Tachyon Arrow is by bringing a Destroyer Lord and putting him with a Lord (with Stalker nearby) or an Overlord.

Yeah, no, everyone already knows about the combo, that's not the part I was interested in... but can a Lord even benefit from a D.Lord conferring PE to its unit? I thought ICs couldn't get abilities like that granted by other ICs?

 skoffs wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

Wow, yeah I thought most people already thought about that forever ago. That's why I run Judicator Cult + Destroyer Cult for BS10 rerolling everything everywhere.

The only way to abuse it with a Tachyon Arrow is by bringing a Destroyer Lord and putting him with a Lord (with Stalker nearby) or an Overlord.

Yeah, no, everyone already knows about the combo, that's not the part I was interested in... but can a Lord even benefit from a D.Lord conferring PE to its unit? I thought ICs couldn't get abilities like that granted by other ICs?

There are a few rules (Move Through Cover, Preferred Enemy, Hatred, Zealot, ext) that say under the wording for the rule that they work for the model and any unit he is a part of. So yeah, Destroyer Lords can give a whole unit Preferred Enemy by being in it.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

Wow, yeah I thought most people already thought about that forever ago. That's why I run Judicator Cult + Destroyer Cult for BS10 rerolling everything everywhere.

The only way to abuse it with a Tachyon Arrow is by bringing a Destroyer Lord and putting him with a Lord (with Stalker nearby) or an Overlord.

Do Destroyer Lords have that option to go with their Warscythe like a regular Overlord? I don't have my codex on me.

Nope. Destroyer Lords may not take Ranged Weapons.

Destoyer lord Come equipe with a Staff of Light It may be replace with a Warscyth and they can take itemps from the Artifact of the Aeons including the Solar Staff (who is a Range 12 Shooting Weapon)

sgc8647 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

Wow, yeah I thought most people already thought about that forever ago. That's why I run Judicator Cult + Destroyer Cult for BS10 rerolling everything everywhere.

The only way to abuse it with a Tachyon Arrow is by bringing a Destroyer Lord and putting him with a Lord (with Stalker nearby) or an Overlord.

Do Destroyer Lords have that option to go with their Warscythe like a regular Overlord? I don't have my codex on me.

Nope. Destroyer Lords may not take Ranged Weapons.

Destoyer lord Come equipe with a Staff of Light It may be replace with a Warscyth and they can take itemps from the Artifact of the Aeons including the Solar Staff (who is a Range 12 Shooting Weapon)

Ranged Weapons as in the "Ranged Weapons" section (i.e Tachyon Arrows and Gauntlet of Fire)

 krodarklorr wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

Wow, yeah I thought most people already thought about that forever ago. That's why I run Judicator Cult + Destroyer Cult for BS10 rerolling everything everywhere.

The only way to abuse it with a Tachyon Arrow is by bringing a Destroyer Lord and putting him with a Lord (with Stalker nearby) or an Overlord.

Mind sharing your Judicator cult + Destroyer cult list that you mentioned?

So the consensus is an Lord/Overlord with a Destroyer Lord attached to the same unit will have Preferred Enemy?
If so, this could be an interesting alpha strike tactic worth exploring.
Hell, if it works, Shooty Royal Court (all armed with Tach.Arrows) could decimate a mech army on turn one.

 skoffs wrote:
So the consensus is an Lord/Overlord with a Destroyer Lord attached to the same unit will have Preferred Enemy?
If so, this could be an interesting alpha strike tactic worth exploring.
Hell, if it works, Shooty Royal Court (all armed with Tach.Arrows) could decimate a mech army on turn one.

No way man, way too expensive. Big Royal Court lists are crazy pricey now, and a Tach Arrow is 25 searchlights per one use each. Plus, they don't ignore cover or anything like that.

It would work like once, and then never again.

BRB, Page 169, Special Rules: Preferred Enemy: "...A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls failed To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1..."

So, yeah, attaching a DLord to any unit makes it work. In the previous book, I used to regularly run units of wraiths with DLords attached. Absolutely brutal units. A little harder to do that now, but still fantastically effective.

Ejderhare wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

Wow, yeah I thought most people already thought about that forever ago. That's why I run Judicator Cult + Destroyer Cult for BS10 rerolling everything everywhere.

The only way to abuse it with a Tachyon Arrow is by bringing a Destroyer Lord and putting him with a Lord (with Stalker nearby) or an Overlord.

Mind sharing your Judicator cult + Destroyer cult list that you mentioned?

I don't have the exact list on me, but I know what I usually run.

Reclamation Legion
Overlord w/ PS, Rez orb, Phylactery, Staff of Light
2x 12 man Warrior blobs
2x 10 man Immortal squads (10 of each variant)
6x Tomb Blades w/ Scopes, Vanes, Gauss blasters

Judicator Battalion
5x Praetorians w/ Voidblades
5x Praetorians w/ Rods
Triarch Stalker w/ Heavy Gauss Cannon

Destroyer Cult
Destroyer Lord w/ Voidreaper, PS, Phylactery
3x 3-man Destroyer Units
2x Heavy Destroyers


Again, not the exact list, but off the top of my head that's what it consisted of.

Ejderhare wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, so you know how Stalkers grant +1 to BS of nearby things?
And how Preferred Enemy lets you reroll 1s?
And how if you stack both on one shooter, they've essentially got BS10?
...
Is there any way to abuse that with a Tachyon Arrow?
The thought of being able to near perfect reliably take out an opponent's best tank on turn 1 really appeals to my cold dead heart.

Wow, yeah I thought most people already thought about that forever ago. That's why I run Judicator Cult + Destroyer Cult for BS10 rerolling everything everywhere.

The only way to abuse it with a Tachyon Arrow is by bringing a Destroyer Lord and putting him with a Lord (with Stalker nearby) or an Overlord.

Mind sharing your Judicator cult + Destroyer cult list that you mentioned?

I honestly just take three formations: Canoptek Harvest, Destroyer Cult, and the Judicator. While the 4+++ is missed, the offensive output makes the army fun.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I honestly just take three formations: Canoptek Harvest, Destroyer Cult, and the Judicator. While the 4+++ is missed, the offensive output makes the army fun.

I made an army list that does this in a Decurion for 1850.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/659876.page

The only thing missing that I wish I could fit in is a 3rd Heavy Destroyer in the Heavy Destroyer unit and the Nightmare Shroud upgrade for the Destroyer Lord. Everything else is as min-maxed as you can get it to fit all 3 formations.

Am I the only weird one here that wants to run a full Judicator Battalion and someday a full Destroyer Cult instead of min/maxing?

 krodarklorr wrote:
Am I the only weird one here that wants to run a full Judicator Battalion and someday a full Destroyer Cult instead of min/maxing?

It would be fun but you'd be close to just running 2 Destroyer Cults and 2 Judicator Battalions. MSU just works out better for objectives.

Zimko wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Am I the only weird one here that wants to run a full Judicator Battalion and someday a full Destroyer Cult instead of min/maxing?

It would be fun but you'd be close to just running 2 Destroyer Cults and 2 Judicator Battalions. MSU just works out better for objectives.

Well yes, but I never have a problem with that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I honestly just take three formations: Canoptek Harvest, Destroyer Cult, and the Judicator. While the 4+++ is missed, the offensive output makes the army fun.

If you could throw in Deathbringer flight as well, you'd have some serious damage output.
(Conclave of the Burning One would also devastating, but not as easy to pull off)