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OK, I did a search. All of the threads I found were at least a year old, and the newest references shotguns as being S3 (and my codex says S4), so I figured I should ask.

Is there any real reason to give Scouts shotguns? S4, AP-, 12" doesn't seem worth it, even for assault 2. My feeling is that the BP+CCW is not terrible but ultimately if you have scouts assaulting, something went wrong in the previous turn and you're just making the best of a bad situation. Boltguns are Boltguns and need no discussion.

Ultimately, it doesn't seem like there is any compelling loadout that rivals the sniper rifle for these guys. I really like the look and idea of the shotguns, but save for the rare occasion you need to blow a ork horde off an objective - they never really are useful, right?

Actually, Id say that there is no loadout that rivals the BP+CCW load out . With a LSS they can do some nice alpha striking. If you just wanna hold an objective and do no (or very very little) damage then snipers are the better choice but Id rather use something else for that.

Taking shotgun as opposed to BP+CCW is basically giving up one attack on the charge round in exchange for one attack in the shooting phase before you charge. That's often a good idea, actually.

1. You have a better chance to hit with your shooting, unless you are charging Guardsmen.
2. Your enemy doesn't get to strike back during the shooting phase, so killing a couple before the charge might limit your losses.
3. These are Scouts we're talking about; you'll win or lose in one round. So losing the extra attack in the 2nd+ rounds doesn't really matter all that much.

With the extra -2ld from the LSS winning combat is absolutly essential, thats why you need maximum number of attacks in CC.
You hit Guardsmen on a 4 just as in CC same thing vs pretty much everything else aswell.

I usefive scouts in an LSS with BP and CCW and the sarge has a PF, so I can do some nice Alpha Striking. I absolutely hate using them with Sniper Rifles, they pretty much suck.

While the shotgun is nice and the extra shot is great and all, its no use if you get jammed into combat.

So, you can take an extra shot and hope for the best, or you can gain an extra attack every turn in combat.

I'd stick with BP + CCW every time.
Ill also agree with above that rifles do suck balls unless you spam them, and in which case you then have a soft army that cant move (might aswell play guard instead)

BP & CCW is best ... if you can a heavy bolter is also a nice option, great for when you face hordes.

shotgun can be a cheap way to give powerfist sergeants a boost. If they have a powerfist, they won't get an extra attack CC anyway, so they might as well get an extra shooting attack.

That said, I'd rather have a combi-melta so I can outflank and hopefully pop a transport and then assault the guys inside.

Also a the OP, scouts can actually be awesome in assault. They can outflank onto the board and be a major threat to support units (or vehicles if equipped with PF and or combi-melta).

Thank you all for the well reasoned replies. I had not considered using a LS Storm, nor had I considered giving the Sergeant a shotgun + PF.

Shotguns have no use. Although id put them on imperial guard veterans because they cant get LP/CCW and if imperial guard dont assault they get wiped.

In a way, shotguns and blades are balanced:

Shotguns can have 2 attacks without assaulting and 4 attacks with.
Blades can have 1 + 3 attacks, but you need to get closer. However, you have the advantage of the initiative and grenades.

I say they are barely just worth it, but they look much cooler

So would the optimal load out for scouts in a land speeder storm be sarge with power fist and shotgun with 4 scouts with bolt pistol and close combat weapon? My friend runs them with shotguns.

I still haven't modeled any arms yet, until I feel this thread has run it's course

Kirika wrote:So would the optimal load out for scouts in a land speeder storm be sarge with power fist and shotgun with 4 scouts with bolt pistol and close combat weapon? My friend runs them with shotguns.

This. Altho a combi-melta is tempting... I'd still go for the shotty.
The only difficult part is what pose to model the sarge in
Aiming the shotty one-handed would look good...
But having a shotgun resting on the shoulder, while the sarge plants a boot onto an ork carcass while smoking a fat cigar would look alot better.

There are times when you will want that extra shot before assaulting into combat. Assaulting a squad of banshee's out in cover comes to mind.
Thats a pretty rare opportunity though, and is not worth investing into shotguns IMHO

In all other situations, the BP/CCW wins out, as most fights will be prolonged more than one round.

I never thought of shotguns on the PF sgt for the CCW/BP squad. Awesome idea.

If I ever get around to making the shrike/scout army, it will have shotgun/pf scout sgts.

The reason you see references to shotguns being S3 is because Guard also uses them.

Shotguns on scouts are great against enemies with an equal or higher initiative to the scouts. Eldar or MEQ basically. MEQ is already gonna get the armor save anyway so it's not like the cover saves matter, and Eldar often also have 4+ armor saves as well, so it's not like bolt pistol fire would make a difference either. The extra shot will hit the same armor as the CC hit, but the enemy won't be able to strike back so you'll cause more wounds before the enemy hits you.

Personally I use Shotgun Scouts with a Powerfist . . . so far the best they have done in combat is killing a Necron Lord and a squad of Necron Warriors in a single round of combat. But the was 110% fluke, as the Lord didn't deal a single wound! And then went on to roll Double 6 for LD test and get run down =D

But yes Shotguns look awesome, and Snipers too. That's why I want to make a Scout Company army. It would most likely be terrible, but would look awesome. A converted Telion to be a Captain, 3 squads of Shotgun Scouts, 3 squads of Sniper Scouts, 3 LSS. Then unless some MAJOR conversion comes into nothing else can look scouty =[

Oshova

good thread, I had never considered the shotgun with a srg. powerfist. I play raven guard, so my alpha strike with the land speeder storm can go up to 50". take that first turn!

I think the best "assault" build for Scouts is a 1:1 mix of Shotguns and BP/CCW.
Everything has the same effective range and strength, the Shotguns give you more oomph at the start and the BP/CCW are for longevity in combat.

Besides Scouts with Shotguns look awesome!

If the idea is to get into combat, I don't really like too much shooting myself. I've been burned by the taking casualties now you can't assault, or the forced a morale test, I combat tactics away.

So if I'm CC, its all Combat blades and PW for the sarge. If its shooting at short range, then its all bolters all the time. I really don't like shotguns that much, due to short range, AP, and the above reasons.

I also never take a fist. 25 points for 2 base fist attacks that doesn't really do all that much. Against meqs, the PW does well enough and is cheaper (even then, I often won't pay for it, 1 kill on average is meh). Against MC, the fist does at most 1 wound. Against dreds.... a fist is pretty ineffective.

Scouts can be an effective CC unit, just don't expect them to do all that well against meq units or other assault units. Infiltrate them forward, to prevent scout movements. Then advance ambush any weak unit that wanders near. Or use that silly transport they get to dump them off into an exposed unit.