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How far can a Battlewagon and a Trukk travel and still have boys get out.

What if the Battlewagon has an ard' case?

They're standard transport vehicles, transport vehicle rules apply. Page 67 of the small rulebook.

The only difference between a Battlewagon and a Battlewagon with an 'ard case is the former is open-topped, the latter is not. The Orks codex tells you where a Battlewagon with 'ard case's fire points and access points are. Doesn't affect movement, DOES affect disembarking and assaulting in the same turn - in that a Battlewagon with 'ard case (not being open-topped) cannot dislodge its cargo and have them assault in the same turn.

...IF the BW has moved that turn (you can assault if you have disembarked from a stationary vehicle) before they disembark

Remember the exceptions, they'll get you every time

nosferatu1001 wrote:...IF the BW has moved that turn (you can assault if you have disembarked from a stationary vehicle) before they disembark

Remember the exceptions, they'll get you every time

Yes, IF the BW has remained stationary, then even with an 'ard case, they can disembark, move normally, and assault.

But this kind of goes without saying, since I started by referring him to the rules in question.

And I like to avoid spoonfeeding rules wholesale, which is why I didn't include every caveat and addendum of the rules.

Ok thank you for the help, just preping my orks for a tournament and wanted to know how to kit out my BW's

Oh well if that's all you need to know...

Never ever ever put an 'ard case on your BW.

and i would reccomend trukks for transport duty anyway.. they are faster, cheaper, do the transport job almost as good as a BW, and ramshackle keeps you "somewhat" functional after getting wrecked.

battlewagons are slow, expensive and imho best used as rammers and gun wagons. (deffrolla, 4x rokkits or big shootas and misc hev weapons)

just my 2 cents.

DarthSpader wrote:and i would reccomend trukks for transport duty anyway.. they are faster, cheaper, do the transport job almost as good as a BW, and ramshackle keeps you "somewhat" functional after getting wrecked.

battlewagons are slow, expensive and imho best used as rammers and gun wagons. (deffrolla, 4x rokkits or big shootas and misc hev weapons)

just my 2 cents.

Except that 1) AV 10 all around gives you a much better chance of getting wrecked than AV 14 front, 2) Trukks are no faster than BW. Both can travel 12" and dislodge their cargo, which is the entire point, 3) ramshackle has just as good a chance of scattering directly back towards your table edge as it does scattering towards the enemy, and a Trukk is more likely to explode and kill your Boyz, and 4) yes, they work as rammers, but I'd love to see you find a situation where you can fire all four Rokkits (and a single BS2 shot is night worthless anyway, Rokkits are overpriced unless they're twin-linked). They're not fast vehicles, they can only move 6" and fire one Rokkit, which is next to useless. Take one Big Shoota to absorb a Weapon Destroyed hit and call it a day. Finally, 5) Battlewagons give you an extra couple of inches with the Deff Rolla on your disembarkation, giving you a slightly longer assault range, and 6) Battlewagons with Deff Rollas are still useful even after they dislodge their cargo, whereas Trukks are now expensive paperweights.

Battlewagons will get your Boyz into combat.

Trukks will get them killed.

5) Not true. DR is not part of the hull and is therefore not a legal point to measure frmo. In fact it hinders you disembarking if youleave it "down", as you cannot place models on impassable terrain.

nosferatu1001 wrote:5) Not true. DR is not part of the hull and is therefore not a legal point to measure frmo. In fact it hinders you disembarking if youleave it "down", as you cannot place models on impassable terrain.

This is debated constantly. I consider it part of the hull, since there is absolutely nothing in the codex OR the rulebook to suggest it is not. If a Vindicator's siege shield is viable for drawing LOS for shooting, and therefore part of the hull (and it has to be, or 90% of the time you wouldn't be able to target the Vindicator's front armor) then my Deff Rollas are also part of the hull. They're both upgrades that are not weapons, but also are not turrets (the only thing, IIRC, that the rulebook states is a vestigial or "extra" part that can't be used to draw LOS).

If you can shoot my Deff Rolla (you can), then I can disembark from it.

Except the rulebook on "decorative elements" stating it isnt. It is only debated constantly by those who want it to count as the hull.

Nos has it exactly right, by RAW the rolla is most definitely not part of the hull. That being said...check how the TO is going to run it, since we have tried a few different interpretations locally and atm are counting the rolla as part of the hull for our league and tourneys. The rolla is a very orky flavored upgrade, unfortunately the rules for it were perhaps also written by an ork...



Sliggoth

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except the rulebook on "decorative elements" stating it isnt. It is only debated constantly by those who want it to count as the hull.

1) It's not a decorative element. That refers to things like antenna, spikes, embellishments, etc. Not actual fixtures of the vehicle, like turrets and weapons. Granted, it specifically says turrets and weapons cannot be used... but says nothing about rams.

2) So next time I play, I can bring my Vindicator, and as long as models are directly in front of it, they can't shoot at it, right? Because by your logic, the siege shield is not part of the hull, therefore cannot be used to draw LOS for shooting... and therefore, since it blocks out entirely the front of the hull of the Vindicator (save for the gun, which we both know can't be used either), anything in front of the Vindicator can't shoot at it.

Wow. Next Space Marine army I put together is totally going to have three Vindicators.

1) Reread the bazillion threads on this, your argument has been done to death over there and it still isnt right. No, the deff rolla is not part of the hull, RAW. Not getting into it here, there is a HUGE thread on this topic.

2) Who ever shoots the front of a vindicator anyway?

(Yes, this means I am not addressing this arguments, as this is not the right place for it. PLease make a new thread if you want to continue down this road)

And you still haven't presented ANY evidence to support that assertion.

But it doesn't matter, as you're right in that this isn't the place for this discussion.

Anyway, to the Trukk advocate - disregard point #5 if you wish, but the rest of my points regarding BW versus Trukks still stand.

SH - the point was I dont need to, as this was debated, and my side "proven", in other areas.

Honestly only an idoit would consider the deff rollas part of the hull because if you measure corner to corner for your armour facings your gunna be just about all side armour.

General_Chaos wrote:Honestly only an idoit would consider the deff rollas part of the hull because if you measure corner to corner for your armour facings your gunna be just about all side armour.

Personally I'd take the 12 armor in exchange for an extra 2" assault range.

SaintHazard wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:Honestly only an idoit would consider the deff rollas part of the hull because if you measure corner to corner for your armour facings your gunna be just about all side armour.

Personally I'd take the 13 armor in exchange for an extra 2" assault range.

Considering BW are Side 12....

Gwar! wrote:Considering BW are Side 12....

Yeah that's what I said. >_>
<_<

Just to kill off the off topic debate.

Page 56, Right column, Vehicles & Measuring Distances.
"<snip>measure to or from their hull (ignore gun barrels, dozer blades, antennas, banners and other decorative elements)"

You will find that when drawing line of sight to a Vindicator, you ignore the shield in front of it, and you will also find that even useful additions such as guns are also treated as decorative. Additionally, the hull of a vehicle or ship is never anything you attach to the object, but rather the object you attach stuff to.