how many battle marines are actually in a codex chapter, at full strength.

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**Captain Solon**

they say 1000 battle brothers.

this doesn't include anything other then actual marines, assaults, devastators, scouts.

So:

I did some math, with a bit of guesstimation.

1 chapter master
10 members of chapter council
- head librairan
- head chaplain
- head techmarine [master of the forge]
- 6 other members.
captains mightent be here.
30 dreadnoughts
10 honour guardsmen
10 captains
40 experienced tacticians [command squads] + 20 apothecaries
10 chaplains, with 20 subjects
20 librarians, 5 epistolaries
30 techmarines, 330 servitors
1000 battle brothers
440 tactical marines
180 assault marines
180 devastatos
100 scouts
included:
10 land raiders, crewed by three
30 predators, crewed by three
30 of vindicators, whirlwinds crewed by two
100 rhinoes, crewed by 2
20 Razorbacks, crewed by three
30 various land speeders, crew two.
I assume half the time these tanks aren't used, so therefore all crews halved.
240 actual crew.

My rough estimate:

1776 fighting marines in a chapter, with probably many more if we were to include astropaths and the like.\

thougths?

**Melissia**

1000 plus possibly a few dozen support personnel (librarians, techmarines, apothecaries, chaplains).

The vehicles are crewed by the backup companies.

**Lizar7**

The crew are space marines drawn from the companies ie assault squads take land speeders, so you can strike off that 240. Servitors aren't battle brothers either so theres another 330 off. These chapters take casualties too so you can't really assume that all squads are running with full numbers.

I guess even after that there is still a fair bit over a thousand over a thousand. It just sounds cool I guess, or there might be only referring to the basic troopers in the ten companies and not counting anything else..

**Thaanos**

Dreadnaughts and Scouts are not included in the list of marines, as they are respectivly mortally wounded, or not full marines yet. I believe the crew of a tank includes devistator squads and techmarines. The chapter council will include the Chapter Master, some of the captains, possibly a dreadnaught or two, so you can't add that into your total either.

If you look at the Diagram on Page 17 of the codex, it shows how the Ultramarines are organized, and it's around 1000 marines.

**Melissia**

Thaanos wrote:[...] Scouts are not included in the list of marines, as they are respectivly mortally wounded, or not full marines yet.

Scouts are the last company.

**Thaanos**

Yes, traditionally they are the 10th company, but they are Marines in training, they don't have all the implanted organs. The codex does not limit the amount of scouts a Chapter can include.

**Captain Solon**

@ melissia okay. didn't know that.
@ Lizar: Do you have difficulty reading?
I said, in the title mind you AT FULL STRENGTH.
@ As for chapter council: no, the chapter council isn't considered by captains. the chapter council is things like the master of the forge.
As for servitors: Yes, they're battle marines. I didn't consider thunderhawk pilots, because they aren't part of the fighting ground force. Servitors still enter the field of battle.

**Mr. Burning**

solon,

Have you just decided to include servitors because they may take a role on the battlefield?

I assume that battle brother is meant to describe a marine which was created and adheres to the tennets set down in the Codex Astartes.

Assuming Battle Brother=Space Marine then a chapter would include 1000 of them with scouts, menials,
servitors and other functionaries making up the rest of the happy family.

Of course chapters may have more or less marines depending on how much they adhere to the rules what actions they are engaged in etc.

**1hadhq**

A count the marines thread

9 companies a 10 x 10 marines
+
officers ( Captain, apothecary, chaplain, librarian, techmarine )
+
Scout sgt's ( yes their battlebrothers not scouts )
+
those remaining at home ( more officers and staff personnel )
+
vehicle crews,pilots,naval crews

=

900 + 10 + 9 + 0-9 + 0-9 + 10 + ca50 + 1+X per vehicle ( serfs and servitors wont act alone, at least 1 marine as commander ).

=>
more than 1k for sure.

**skrulnik**

I think it very likely that some chapters discount the crew of their transports rather than using the "reserve" companies.
This would allow many more Tactical marines.
I also suspect that many of the command squad and Honor Guards are supernumeraries.

Plus there are others that may have inflated Scout companies as well. I doubt they use them the way we do on the table top.
You could have a couple hundred scouts that are ready, and waiting to be promoted, thus allowing full ten-man squads throughout the Chapter.
I imagine that scout company is where you could draw transport crew from without bleeding reserve companies.

To answer the OP, as many more than 1000 as you think you can justify.

**Emperors_Champion**

The way my Blood Angels keep dying I'd be surprised if they've even got 100 left!

**COMMANDER SUNTZU**

Most vanilla marine chapters such as ultra marines your estimate is accurate but for others like the DA, GK and SW it is very different. DA is split into different sections. Normal, deathwing and ravenwing and numbers vary. GK have about 5k as they have to be spread accross the whole imperium to counter any daemon attacks quickly. The SW dont follow the codex astarates and so are split into grand companies (not sure how many are in each) and tehn there is the 13th grand company which have slightly less as they dont have new recruits and have been around for 10000 years (read the SW omnibus 2, to find out more). Hope i never bored you too much but this is a really interesting thread. Well done to the creator of it

**1hadhq**

Emperors_Champion wrote:The way my Blood Angels keep dying I'd be surprised if they've even got 100 left!

Marines never die

Lets use codex BA ( page 8 ):

9 companies a 100 marines, 9 captains = 909.
10 scout squads, a captain = 11 marines
35 techmarines
22 Sanguary priests
30 Sanguary guard
25 Librarians
14 Chaplains
Fleet command (1) 9 capital ships, 16 smaller ones ( either their officers come from the transported companies or we could guess numbers)
Dante

909+11+35+22+3+25+14+1+1 = 1048 ( without deathcompany ! )

1000 marines + X and some unnoticed additional group of marines is the way to go......

**skrulnik**

1hadhq wrote:
Emperors_Champion wrote:The way my Blood Angels keep dying I'd be surprised if they've even got 100 left!

Marines never die

Lets use codex BA ( page 8 ):

9 companies a 100 marines, 9 captains = 909.
10 scout squads, a captain = 11 marines
35 techmarines
22 Sanguary priests
30 Sanguary guard
25 Librarians
14 Chaplains
Fleet command (1) 9 capital ships, 16 smaller ones ( either their officers come from the transported companies or we could guess numbers)
Dante

909+11+35+22+3+25+14+1+1 = 1048 ( without deathcompany ! )

1000 marines + X and some unnoticed additional group of marines is the way to go......

Is there fluff to indicate that the scout company is restricted to 100?

**Emperors_Champion**

skrulnik wrote:
1hadhq wrote:
Emperors_Champion wrote:The way my Blood Angels keep dying I'd be surprised if they've even got 100 left!

Marines never die

Lets use codex BA ( page 8 ):

9 companies a 100 marines, 9 captains = 909.
10 scout squads, a captain = 11 marines
35 techmarines
22 Sanguary priests
30 Sanguary guard
25 Librarians
14 Chaplains
Fleet command (1) 9 capital ships, 16 smaller ones ( either their officers come from the transported companies or we could guess numbers)
Dante

909+11+35+22+3+25+14+1+1 = 1048 ( without deathcompany ! )

1000 marines + X and some unnoticed additional group of marines is the way to go......

Is there fluff to indicate that the scout company is restricted to 100?

Yeah page 8 is quickly becoming my actual Army List!

As for the fluff I don't remember reading anywhere, in the codex at least, about limits on the no. of scouts!

**1hadhq**

Codex BA indicates that organization of the BA is shown with full squads of 10. Scouts got 10 squads, plus 56 'free' possible new BA.

**skrulnik**

Fair enough. Not arguing the fluff, just that it jars with what I feel would "work".

I really do not see having 100 recruits as enough to offset losses due to casualties for any chapter.
It takes years to train up. One bad engagement puts them understrength for that long.

Imagine if a company replaces 10 marines from scouts to be at 100. Then, before a new batch is drafted into scout company, they lose 10 more marines throughout the Company.
Do they operate at 90% again for the years until a new batch is ready? Seems foolish to operate military in this manner.
I would think a canny Chapter Master would be fudging the numbers all around to maintain maximum effectiveness.
Doing things like not counting crew, bloating command squads, oversized scout company, etc.

Not that the Imperium is known for its efficiency.

**Joetaco**

Regardless of all the maths going on the actual number chapters are supposed to be is 1000 because of the codex astartes. It does mention in the 5th edition codex that chapters are often bigger than a 1000 in times of war (what that means in the grimdarkness of the future is anyones guess) so yeah, 1000+ not counting scouts and possibly not counting techmarines (not sure if they're still considered part of the chapter)

**1hadhq**

GW had a pic of the 'whole' chapter of Ultramarines in a codex. Count the models,

Spoiler:

Seems scouts, crews and special formations like deathcompany don't count.

BT get away with 7-8x times the size of a 'standard' chapter, would agree many clever Chapter-masters won't follow a given number
in an old tome ( Codex ) too strictly...

So agreed, 'officially' a chapter has 1000 marines.
And thats just for the Imperial bureaucrats.

**Topher21**

As a Space Wolf player, I'm quite sure that my chapter has well over 1000 battle brothers. I have not done the math, but from the fluff of the codex, Ragnar's Great Company alone has almost 200. With 11 other Great Company's, plus the Great Wolf's company, Space Wolves easily number over 1000. I would venture to say even over 1500 easy, but that is purely speculation and I have no actual evidence to back it up.

**Fiend**

When I did this myself for a vanilla SM chapter, I got around 1060, at full strength. I did not count scouts or 'vehicle crew' and I definitely did not include servitors. Vehicle crew wasn't included because I assumed tanks are driven by the techmarines (which I counted) or a reserve marine and that rhinos are driven by either their squad or a servitor. I didn't include dreadnoughts either as they have gone beyond being a marine and are now 'interred' in what is pretty much a vehicle. So if you discount the master, captains, and their guards as supernumerary, you get around 1000. Alternately, some may view the libs, chaps, techs or apothecaries as supernumerary, to get the same number.

So, 1060 is around the number of walking, talking space marines in a chapter, while 1000 is the number for on the ground battle brothers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course this can vary considerably based on the size of the honor guards or other departments.

**Melissia**

Servitors are not Space Marine Battle Brothers. They are Servitors.

**Gavin Thorne**

Administratum Bureaucrat: Chapter Master Calgar, is your chapter ready for inspection?

Calgar: Aye, we've assembled the entire chapter and made them ready for the Census Astartes. I can personally guarantee that the Ultramarines number exactly one thousand marines.

AB: Yes, yes, that's exactly what we expected. So all Ultramarines battle-brothers are assembled here on the parade ground?

Calgar: Oh, yes sir.

AB: Forgive me Lord Calgar, but those men in the motor pool, what are they doing? Shouldn't they be in uniform and ready for inspection?

Calgar: Ohhhh, no sir. You see, those boys are the members of the Landraider Detailing Auxillary and not fighting battle-brothers per se. Sure they've undergone the organ implants and psychosurguries, but we don't let them hold the holy bolter. No sir, not reeeally Ultramarines...

AB: What about the 30 or so marines we passed in the armoury?

Calgar: Pshaw, sir, that's just my personal Honor G... er... bodyguard. Not members of the army proper at all. Not even on the register, they just like to hang out and shine the Armor of Antioch.

AB: Hmmm. I hear that since the Siege of Mordrath IV, you've graduated 132 scouts, the entire 10th Company, to fully fledged battle-brothers to compensate for losses.

Calgar: Aye, the fighting was fierce and bloody. We sustained many losses.

AB: The preliminary reports from that engagement indicate that only eight marines were killed and 23 wounded - all of which have returned to active duty. So, Lord Macragge, are you sure the Ultramarines are operating within the requirements of your venerable primarch's Codex?

Calgar: ... er...

AB: Well?

Calgar: I can crush your skull with one hand little man and due to recent 'warpstorm' activity, your death may not be reported for another 50 years or so. I'm sure that your scribe will be encouraged to note the chapter's compliance in his report if your own isn't sufficient.

AB: Well, well, I'm sure there's no need to include the Landraider Cleaning...

Calgar: Detailing!

AB: er, Detailing Auxillary or your personal bodyguard. Surely these support personnel are provided by the Planetary Defense Corp and wouldn't be included in the Census Astartes...

Calgar: I'm glad we see eye to eye.

**Retrias**

necessary doing.....
AB doesn't have to fight against super mushroom and giant alien swarm or murderous robot, or corrupter copy of yourself or alien led by super pope, and others

**Fiend**

@ Retrias. What?

Also, SW and BT intentionally don't follow the codex astartes and have many times the usual number. Even the chapters that follow the codex rigidly can have more than 1000 marines as certain strategic and leadership roles are marked as supernumerary, meaning they don't count towards the 1000.

**Retrias**

I am saying that Calgar did a necessary thing

if they wanted more than 1000 battle brother, it's up to them
AB didn't have to fight all those thing marines fight

**1hadhq**

Gavin Thorne wrote:Administratum Bureaucrat: Chapter Master Calgar, is your chapter ready for inspection?

Calgar: Aye, we've assembled the entire chapter and made them ready for the Census Astartes. I can personally guarantee that the Ultramarines number exactly one thousand marines.

AB: Yes, yes, that's exactly what we expected. So all Ultramarines battle-brothers are assembled here on the parade ground?

Calgar: Oh, yes sir.

AB: Forgive me Lord Calgar, but those men in the motor pool, what are they doing? Shouldn't they be in uniform and ready for inspection?

Calgar: Ohhhh, no sir. You see, those boys are the members of the Landraider Detailing Auxillary and not fighting battle-brothers per se. Sure they've undergone the organ implants and psychosurguries, but we don't let them hold the holy bolter. No sir, not reeeally Ultramarines...

AB: What about the 30 or so marines we passed in the armoury?

Calgar: Pshaw, sir, that's just my personal Honor G... er... bodyguard. Not members of the army proper at all. Not even on the register, they just like to hang out and shine the Armor of Antioch.

AB: Hmmm. I hear that since the Siege of Mordrath IV, you've graduated 132 scouts, the entire 10th Company, to fully fledged battle-brothers to compensate for losses.

Calgar: Aye, the fighting was fierce and bloody. We sustained many losses.

AB: The preliminary reports from that engagement indicate that only eight marines were killed and 23 wounded - all of which have returned to active duty. So, Lord Macragge, are you sure the Ultramarines are operating within the requirements of your venerable primarch's Codex?

Calgar: ... er...

AB: Well?

Calgar: I can crush your skull with one hand little man and due to recent 'warpstorm' activity, your death may not be reported for another 50 years or so. I'm sure that your scribe will be encouraged to note the chapter's compliance in his report if your own isn't sufficient.

AB: Well, well, I'm sure there's no need to include the Landraider Cleaning...

Calgar: Detailing!

AB: er, Detailing Auxillary or your personal bodyguard. Surely these support personnel are provided by the Planetary Defense Corp and wouldn't be included in the Census Astartes...

Calgar: I'm glad we see eye to eye.

**Cambak**

On average, it's ABOUT 1000 marines in total (I'm looking at you Dark Templar, stop doubling the number and not counting them). But they can have from a handful to as many servitors as they want, to help keep their Battle Barges busy, their tanks in order, and their Tarantula's ammo feed. They can usually make up their lack of numbers with their prowess but if prowess isn't enough and they don't want to blow up a planet, they can just as easily drop in as many servitors as they want, theoretically.

**A-P**

Please read this:http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=291. It is an excellent treatise on the size of a Codex Chapter.

**Fiend**

Good article. He makes a good assessment that I mostly agree with. However, he does count scouts, which aren't 'full' space marines. He puts up good points for the existence of dedicated vehicle crew and pilots who aren't part of the company structure.