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Ok, so in my game last night vs my brothers orcs I pretty much got shat on for playing to aggressively without assault troops.

My next tactic will be...

2 Predators on both sides (In front) of my troops, then a vindicator in the middle (In front). Then I will put my people between them. I'm doing this because if (When) His 60+ Boyz charge at me I will tank charge them and hopefully scare the sh!t out of his people, making them run back, therefore allowing to 30+ marines to rapidfire on them.

Now, I am running a 5 man squad of Sternguards, one with a heavy flamer for if they get to close. I don't really think I'll need the combi meltas since I have 2 predators to deal with tanks, and a termie squad for MC (If he runs any). What is the best setup for bullets with my sterguard? Also is this tactic viable or trash?


Tell me what you think


(Everyone is pretty much stationary allowing the heavy weapons to fire, all my tac squads have missile launchers, the termie has one too.

Instead of one Heavy Flamer, take Combi-Flamers, therefore you can have 5 templates instead of one and still keep the special ammo.

Metal boxes will keep you from getting assaulted. Mount up in those lovely dirt cheap Rhinos.

Valkyrie wrote:Instead of one Heavy Flamer, take Combi-Flamers, therefore you can have 5 templates instead of one and still keep the special ammo.

I wasn't aware you could, thats awesome! Thanks.

Chumbalaya wrote:Metal boxes will keep you from getting assaulted. Mount up in those lovely dirt cheap Rhinos.

Would the firepoints line up? And would I be able to shoot my rockets?

You do realise you can use any of that special ammo right?
You get all of them and pick the one your fire before rolling each shooting phase.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:You do realise you can use any of that special ammo right?
You get all of them and pick the one your fire before rolling each shooting phase.

Ohh! The way the person taught me at GW was that I had to choose one at the beginning of the game -.-

Thanks for the heads up.

Nah, you can change it for the situation, which is what makes them so popular.

also, ill second the idea of taking combi-flamers against orks.
They have enough fire power to finish off a mob of boyz with ease.
However, if you plan on taking a large unit of sternguard, 1-2 heavy flamers wouldnt be too bad.
just keep in mind you dont get thier bolters.

revackey wrote:

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:You do realise you can use any of that special ammo right?
You get all of them and pick the one your fire before rolling each shooting phase.

Ohh! The way the person taught me at GW was that I had to choose one at the beginning of the game -.-

Thanks for the heads up.

Welcome to games workshop please don't heed to the staff; they often get things wrong So always read the rules.

Tri wrote:

revackey wrote:

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:You do realise you can use any of that special ammo right?
You get all of them and pick the one your fire before rolling each shooting phase.

Ohh! The way the person taught me at GW was that I had to choose one at the beginning of the game -.-

Thanks for the heads up.

Welcome to games workshop please don't heed to the staff; they often get things wrong So always read the rules.

Yea, it might have even been my fault, since it was my first time using them last weekend.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Nah, you can change it for the situation, which is what makes them so popular.

also, ill second the idea of taking combi-flamers against orks.
They have enough fire power to finish off a mob of boyz with ease.
However, if you plan on taking a large unit of sternguard, 1-2 heavy flamers wouldnt be too bad.
just keep in mind you dont get thier bolters.

I'll probably be running a 5 man squad at 1,250 points. So I'll skip the Heavy Flamer and go with combi ones.

Sounds better, and i agree with tri.
Allways check a rule, even if the staff seem sure.
You will find that you know more about the game that quite a few staffers

with the sterns, i would also suggest keeping the transport close if your playing orks and have a small unit.
atleast that way if they get too close, you can simply move away, get out and start shooting again.

Yea, I'll probably find a way to fit a few rhinos in there

Read that little box on page 92 that says "Seize the Initiative!"

That can end games before they start, especially against Orks.

IMHO, giving sternguards heavy flamers is a bad idea, your supposed to be moving all the time when fighting orks. At least enough so that you can win the assault in the inevitable charge.

Contrary to popular belief, you should never charge orks even if it is to deny them that furious charge, unless that unit that is doing a charge is a proper assault unit. It is almost always better to just rapid fire them.

Regarding sterngurads: At 30" use AP4 Kraken shots, the rest, use hellfire. Try to get away from those huge mass of bodies, also tank shocking them is quite useless as they are fearless if he is running 30-man.

Land speeder typhoon and Whirlwind tend do destroy ork hordes, just make sure you keep them from a safe distance and also prioritize shooting his anti tank assets with your long range weaponry.

Good luck!

Yuber wrote:IMHO, giving sternguards heavy flamers is a bad idea, your supposed to be moving all the time when fighting orks. At least enough so that you can win the assault in the inevitable charge.

Contrary to popular belief, you should never charge orks even if it is to deny them that furious charge, unless that unit that is doing a charge is a proper assault unit. It is almost always better to just rapid fire them.

Regarding sterngurads: At 30" use AP4 Kraken shots, the rest, use hellfire. Try to get away from those huge mass of bodies, also tank shocking them is quite useless as they are fearless if he is running 30-man.

Land speeder typhoon and Whirlwind tend do destroy ork hordes, just make sure you keep them from a safe distance and also prioritize shooting his anti tank assets with your long range weaponry.

Good luck!

I have about 20 assault and 5 vangaurd vets that I used in a game last night. I used em with shrike...nooooot a pretty sight. My rolls blew and I think I killed about 14 of his people. He slaughtered all of mine. I have yet to try the sternguard HF, but I do believe vindicators are also anti horde right?

Yuber wrote:IMHO, giving sternguards heavy flamers is a bad idea, your supposed to be moving all the time when fighting orks. At least enough so that you can win the assault in the inevitable charge.

I don't get what you're saying here- what does having heavy flamers have to do with moving? Your bolters can only shoot 12" if you move, and combi-flamers have the same range. Giving up special ammo for a heavy flamer is questionable, but the flamer is more mobile than special ammo (you can't charge if you fire a bolter).

I think you're forgetting that heavy flamers are 'assault 1' and assault cannons are 'heavy 4', don't mix up the description with the stats.

I noticed you said you used a vanguard veteran squad WITH Shrike. Even as a Raven Guard player, I can never seem to spend the points on him, or a squad of Vanguards to roll with him.

How does he play into your army, and how many points do they soak up?

With shrike my two tactics are...

-have him infiltrate with 10 Termies with TH + SH, so they draw all the fire AND they can run and assault in the same turn.

-in scout armies he allows them to run and assault which is very helpful when using scouts with CCW

Vanguards I'm not so sure about I need to find a good way to use em.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

Yuber wrote:IMHO, giving sternguards heavy flamers is a bad idea, your supposed to be moving all the time when fighting orks. At least enough so that you can win the assault in the inevitable charge.

I don't get what you're saying here- what does having heavy flamers have to do with moving? Your bolters can only shoot 12" if you move, and combi-flamers have the same range. Giving up special ammo for a heavy flamer is questionable, but the flamer is more mobile than special ammo (you can't charge if you fire a bolter).

I think you're forgetting that heavy flamers are 'assault 1' and assault cannons are 'heavy 4', don't mix up the description with the stats.

Very simple my friend. I can shoot 30" or less with my combi flamer. I cannot with heavy flamers. In order to use a flamer, it means i have to be 5.5 inch away - less if I want more hits. More often than not meaning i cannot move back 6" and shoot with it, thus making it a horrible weapon.

The tactic I use against ork blobs is to kite them while rapid firing them. That 12" rapid fire range can be the meaning of whether I would survive the assault or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

revackey wrote:

Yuber wrote:IMHO, giving sternguards heavy flamers is a bad idea, your supposed to be moving all the time when fighting orks. At least enough so that you can win the assault in the inevitable charge.

Contrary to popular belief, you should never charge orks even if it is to deny them that furious charge, unless that unit that is doing a charge is a proper assault unit. It is almost always better to just rapid fire them.

Regarding sterngurads: At 30" use AP4 Kraken shots, the rest, use hellfire. Try to get away from those huge mass of bodies, also tank shocking them is quite useless as they are fearless if he is running 30-man.

Land speeder typhoon and Whirlwind tend do destroy ork hordes, just make sure you keep them from a safe distance and also prioritize shooting his anti tank assets with your long range weaponry.

Good luck!

I have about 20 assault and 5 vangaurd vets that I used in a game last night. I used em with shrike...nooooot a pretty sight. My rolls blew and I think I killed about 14 of his people. He slaughtered all of mine. I have yet to try the sternguard HF, but I do believe vindicators are also anti horde right?

To further stress my point, you just DON'T assault huge bodies of ork. Just shoot them and assault them at the right moment, (10-14 bodies left, should be enough)

Also, vindicators MAY be good against hordes, but whirlwinds are better. Nothing beats a gun that is already firing at turn 1, ignores cover too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

revackey wrote:With shrike my two tactics are...

-have him infiltrate with 10 Termies with TH + SH, so they draw all the fire AND they can run and assault in the same turn.

-in scout armies he allows them to run and assault which is very helpful when using scouts with CCW

Vanguards I'm not so sure about I need to find a good way to use em.

If there is one thing that really hurt Ork blobs, is by forcing them to move back: this can be achieved by deepstriking shrike and shooty TDA behind them later in the game and pelting them with AP5 shots. Scouts work too by flanking, or infiltrating behind his blobs... which is highly unlikely.

Yuber wrote:Contrary to popular belief, you should never charge orks even if it is to deny them that furious charge, unless that unit that is doing a charge is a proper assault unit. It is almost always better to just rapid fire them

That really depends on where your marines are, and if the orks are in cover or not. It also depends on just how many marines are firing right?

9 marines with rapid firing bolters + searg with bolt pistol gives 19 shots, ~10 of which will hit, ~5 will wound. In cover thats ~2-3 dead orks or 5 out of cover. Out of 30 boys in a mob, thats not enough to make a difference.

The difference between STR 3 and 4 vs. MEQ is huge, however. Only 1/3 of his hits wound instead of 1/2, which is a remarkable difference.

The trick is to assault on the first turn with as few models as possible, ideally denying his nob the ability to use the PK on the first round. That ties him up until your on even footing, then the 10 MEQ have a decent chance of doing the job, especially sternguard with 2 attacks each.

labmouse42 wrote:

Yuber wrote:Contrary to popular belief, you should never charge orks even if it is to deny them that furious charge, unless that unit that is doing a charge is a proper assault unit. It is almost always better to just rapid fire them

That really depends on where your marines are, and if the orks are in cover or not. It also depends on just how many marines are firing right?

9 marines with rapid firing bolters + searg with bolt pistol gives 19 shots, ~10 of which will hit, ~5 will wound. In cover thats ~2-3 dead orks or 5 out of cover. Out of 30 boys in a mob, thats not enough to make a difference.

The difference between STR 3 and 4 vs. MEQ is huge, however. Only 1/3 of his hits wound instead of 1/2, which is a remarkable difference.

The trick is to assault on the first turn with as few models as possible, ideally denying his nob the ability to use the PK on the first round. That ties him up until your on even footing, then the 10 MEQ have a decent chance of doing the job, especially sternguard with 2 attacks each.

Its usually hard to put a huge blob of 30 bodies in cover without suffering the movement penalty. The trick is to lure him into kill zones where he wont have that cover.

While what you say is completely right and I agree with you. Regardless, the simple truth is that when a the ork blob still has 15-20 bodies and is already in charge range with you, both propositions are lose-lose and you are really doing something wrong here and you ARE going to lose the fight.

Combi-meltas and a Heavy Flamer are my preferred setup as a personal rule. Having multiple threat layers built into every unit increases your tactical flexibility and helps make enemy target priority harder (if your predators are your main AT, and the opponent is doing a mech list...guess what gets targeted first?)

Firstly, as my old pal Chumbalya said Sternguard should be in tanks. Then the opponent has to pop those tanks to get at the units inside, giving you more protection.

All rounds can be useful with Sternguard, though combi weapons are the best because you're paying 9 points extra per Marine for the special ammo and then trading it for a heavy flamer! Combi all the way.

Dragonfire rounds are cool for no cover saves. I believe they're AP5 but could be wrong so against annoying units like Scouts, Pathfinders and others in cover blast them with these and gas them!

Hellfire rounds are probably the best round. Wound on a 2+ which means buckets of saves so great for monstrous creatures, T8 models which normally S4 rounds can't damage and even against T4 enemy models it's better wounding on a 2+ than 4+ and causing more wounds - the more saves your opponent has to roll the better!

Kraken is ok at range, but Sternguard most Sternguard rounds are 24" anyway, and you'll need to move into rapid fire range.

Vengeance rounds are ok but the gets hot! rule kind of sucks, still need 4+ to wound mostly so Daemon Princes for example need 5+ at least and you may end up taking wounds yourself; not good!

IMO, hellfire is the best against all troops, dragonrounds are pretty cool against the right targets i.e Guard in cover.

its actually cheaper to give them combi-weapons then that.


heavy flamers are a good idea, but really only when everyone else has Combi-flamers AND there are 10 of them.

2 templates will kill 22 orks if you hit 4 with each. you can utterly destroy an ork mob in one shooting phase.

keep one mob up to full str while the rest recieve your ranged attention.

then flame and assault the full str one.


Don't listen to Yuber. ALWAYS CHARGE ORKS to deny them FC. ALWAYS. even 30 orks has a low chance of killing marines if you charge them.

you also have 2 base attacks to help with this.

I agree about charging Orks. Do this if you can, they don't get F.C and are S3!

When orks need 5s to wound and only have 3 attacks at most the world is bad for them.

Totally agree mate. Orks getting charged is the suck because lose that strength advantage, doesn't matter on initiative much as they go last mostly anyway.

even on the charge orks go last agianst SMs.

its the extra attack and Str that is why you want to neuter the charge.

Yes I know Grey Templar. I keep agreeing with you all the time, you don't need to keep justifying your comment

Yea, I ran an assault list vs them and I wiped the table. I killed off his people before he could do anything to me.

The Problem of assaulting orks is mainly the numerical one...

With 3 attacks, 1 out of ever 2 orks will wound a space marine. With a 3+ save, it would take 6 orks to kill a single marine if he got charged.

Keep in mind that space marines usually have 1 attack, 2 on the charge. The small units hurt you guys a lot when fighting orks as you cannot dole out enough wounds to really hurt our unit strength.

21 attacks with only a fourth wounding means 5 dead orks. going from 29 orks and a nob to 24 orks and a nob means that we fight back, and through sheer dice, kill 4 marines and the klaw kills another one.

My recommendation is to just rapid fire us because a third of your shots will kill an ork. With 20 shots, you are killing 6...

If your opponent is running the green tide, without kans, I would suggest dreadnoughts because they can tie up a horde. Only the Nob can hurt the Dreadnaught, with 3 attacks, half of them hitting and the other half doing nothing, your odds are good that you can whittle them down with fearless.

As with the Rhinos, +1 to that suggestion. Green Tide is slow, you can shoot out of a Rhino (more importantly shoot a flame template). I have seen the following tactics being used against horde players.

The Rhino Block: You have your men disembark from the Rhino, rush the rhino forward as far as it can go... pivot sideways. The Sternguard open fire with *No cover* rounds, repeatedly until the horde player blows up the rhino (mind the 1" rule during non-assault phases), suffers S3 attacks from shrapnel, has to go through difficult terrain, and finally gets to you turns later.

Fake Retreat: You have a Tac squad in front of your sterguard (firing *no cover* rounds), your opponent will have to take a rapid fire from both before he assaults (unless he has fleet). By the time he assaults the Tac Squad, he will be large enough to win combat, but not wipe you, choose to fail your morale check and fall back. On your turn, you can give him another round of rapid firing.