What's the best way to defeat a Necron/ 'Nids alliance?

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**CommissarCandlestick**

We're having a tournament and I'm going to be facing a Necron/ 'Nids alliance; I've never faced Necrons and I've only faced 'Nids about twice. What should I do?

**RaptorsTalon**

Prepare to lose unless you get very lucky.

Necrons and Nids are really hard to beat.

**Oscarius**

First, so we really can help you, what are you playing?

**CommissarCandlestick**

As far as I know, both armies are quite shooty other than a Necron Lord and three Carnifexes.

The armies are something like:

Necron Lord w/ Res Orb and Warscythe.

2x 10 Warriors.

3 Destroyers.

Monolith

The Nid's are

Tyranid prime w/ Rending Claws

Venomthrope x2

20 Termagants

10 Hormagants w/ Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs

10 gargoyles w/ Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs

3 Carnifexes

That's what I think they're using. I'll let you know of any changes.

**Oscarius**

I was more talking about what YOU are playing.

And is it a 1000p each or is it larger than that?

**CommissarCandlestick**

It's a 1000pts each doubles tournament (2000pts per game). I'm not sure what I'll be playing just yet. It's between IG, BA or Daemon Hunters. What do you think would do best against this alliance?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm allied with an Ultramarines army but I have no idea whatsoever as to what it includes.

**NeedsMoreDakka**

Aim for the warriors at ALL COSTS. You can make that Necron phase out relativly early, with that list if you kill 19 warriors his phase out rule removes the rest automatically. Though the nid list is scary 2v1 should be more than he can handle as long as you play it smart. The nid mobility comes from his gargoyles so they might slow you down from hitting the warriors but depending on how speedy you and your partners list is (and how big the table is) you might be able to hit the necron full on a turn or two before the nid can help. GOOD LUCK!

**CommissarCandlestick**

Thanks. I'll try this out.

**SamplesoWoopass**

I'd say going with IG would be good with a lot of those str 8 ap3 pie plates. I'd take out those destroyers quickly because each one that dies can't come back since he's only got the one squad and them and the lith are the only potent things in his list. After that I'd go for phase out.

**NeedsMoreDakka**

SamplesoWoopass wrote:I'd say going with IG would be good with a lot of those str 8 ap3 pie plates. I'd take out those destroyers quickly because each one that dies can't come back since he's only got the one squad and them and the lith are the only potent things in his list. After that I'd go for phase out.

I also agree with that A LOT, if your ultra Marines buddy can make a line for you i think pie plates would be brutal for both of them. Flamers are another good option against all the nids just try and keep those Nidzillas out manuevered if you can help it.

**CommissarCandlestick**

Thanks, I'll take this on board and see what I can do.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If using IG, do I go for a Mech Vet army or loads of foot-slogging infantry?

**bloodaxegit**

I would tell you but that would threaten my army and my beloved necron lord

**Addicted to Bleach**

I would fit as many high-strength low AP pie plates as possible. The Idea is to remove 19 necron warriors then the nids will be out numbered by superior foes. I suggest you bring one unit of Ogryns as counter-charge, unless you know for a fact that the ultramarines are going to bring assault marines, because they can kill a sizable number of nids and take the return hits. By the time they hit your lines they should only be nids. Have your ally obliterate their gargoyles, while your pies are concentrating on necrons, because they are the only thing that can hit your lines quickly other than destroyers, which should phase by turn 2/3. You should save points by not meching up, two small/medium platoons should do. If you don't want ogryns make a power blob or two. These can both be counter-charge and objective takers so deserve a good look from you. ALWAYS TAKE A COMMISAR!!!!! All I can suggest for ultramarines is take sternguard and some landspeeders(not too familiar with marine codex.). And remember it is just a game. Good luck have fun.

**cromwest**

This wont be hard since your opponents have a massive Achilles heel, phase out. Just both of you go hard and don't let up on the necrons untill they phase out which will be much easier when its 2 on one after 2 or 3 turns of that it really WILL be 2 on 1.

**Eidolon**

Kill the 3 carnifexs and laugh because the rest of their armies are crap.

**Grakmar**

I'd suggest going with the massive infantry IG. Take lots of weapons good for killing MEQ to take out all the Necrons. Then, you're massed lasblaster shots (and your ally's bolters) should take care of all those gaunts. Plus, you can use your cheap, expendible infantry squads to protect the slightly better Marines and take any charges.

**Mattlov**

Pie plates and foot sloggers.

Use sheer numbers of templates and crap loads of lasgun fire. Play the numbers game.

**Johnnyboy955**

force weps are really cool for MC's a carney squad taking 3 wounds from FW's emiminate them from the table in one go.

**cromwest**

Johnnyboy955 wrote:force weps are really cool for MC's a carney squad taking 3 wounds from FW's emiminate them from the table in one go.

Good luck wounding on a 6.

**Eidolon**

Yeah, im wondering how anything other than mephiston will handle a squad of carnifexs.

**Happygrunt**

Do you know what those are? They are pie plates. Bring AS MANY AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE! Aim for the Necron Warriors and anything that causes synapse. Turn their side of the board into pot holes. Make the Necrons phase out and the nids run around looking for mommy. Should be no problem with that.

**CommissarCandlestick**

Eidolon wrote:Yeah, im wondering how anything other than mephiston will handle a squad of carnifexs.

I could use my BA, I do have Mephiston, but that way there's less ordnance to kill the Necrons.

**Jaon**

Necrons have NO way of dealing with mephiston. Id sooner put up imperial guardsmen against him than necrons. He will just sweep every single one of them and its going to take the fire from the entire necron army to bring him down. In doubles I find people tend to deploy allied armies apart, so if the necron isnt near the nids, go for the warriors with meph.

Once the necrons phase out, it will be an unfair advantage in your favour.

I have played more doubles games than singles, and I have learnt its a good idea to give certain objectives to yourself and your allied player. Ultramarines are good at dealing with tyranids, so let him do the bulk of that. You deal with the necrons, then hook in on the nids.

**CommissarCandlestick**

I forgot about synapse, thanks!

**Eidolon**

CommissarCandlestick wrote:
Eidolon wrote:Yeah, im wondering how anything other than mephiston will handle a squad of carnifexs.

I could use my BA, I do have Mephiston, but that way there's less ordnance to kill the Necrons.

The pie plate idea is bad. 2 squads of 10 warriors isnt anything you need pie plates for. If your opponent is smart they will just spread out, oh look your battlecannon shot hit 2 warriors, congrats. Oh BTW res orb nearby so you killled 1 warrior. What you guys need is just a solid team. Lets break down the opponents list. I wont suggest what armies to play since that is list tailoring bs, and it always sucks when someone does it.

Necron Lord w/ Res Orb and Warscythe.

2x 10 Warriors.

3 Destroyers.

Monolith

This army is pretty poop. Phase out number of 6 is not bad. But they are bringing nothing that hits hard to the table. I would target these guys last, or tarpit them in combat.

The Nid's are

Tyranid prime w/ Rending Claws

Venomthrope x2

20 Termagants

10 Hormagants w/ Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs

10 gargoyles w/ Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs

3 Carnifexes

Also a pretty terribad army. 2 venomthropes, so he can get coversaves on what? The 3 carnifexs he shouldnt be bringing? The squads of 10 gaunts and 10 gargoyles with full upgrades. The onlything decent in this army are the 20 termagaunts.

If you are meched up there is no way you cant handle this team. Kill the destroyers and carnifexs dead in the first 2 turns and you can laugh as the enemy has nothing meaningful on the table.

You should play ba razorspam btw. If the ultramarines are geared up as msu close range shooty like they should your armies will be near unstoppable. Me and a friend ran a nids/guard team twice at local team events and kicked the hell out of everyone we came across. The combination of excellent shooting and good combat mixed with good resilience just destroys people.

**CommissarCandlestick**

Eidolon wrote:
CommissarCandlestick wrote:
Eidolon wrote:Yeah, im wondering how anything other than mephiston will handle a squad of carnifexs.

I could use my BA, I do have Mephiston, but that way there's less ordnance to kill the Necrons.

The pie plate idea is bad. 2 squads of 10 warriors isnt anything you need pie plates for. If your opponent is smart they will just spread out, oh look your battlecannon shot hit 2 warriors, congrats. Oh BTW res orb nearby so you killled 1 warrior. What you guys need is just a solid team. Lets break down the opponents list. I wont suggest what armies to play since that is list tailoring bs, and it always sucks when someone does it.

Necron Lord w/ Res Orb and Warscythe.

2x 10 Warriors.

3 Destroyers.

Monolith

This army is pretty poop. Phase out number of 6 is not bad. But they are bringing nothing that hits hard to the table. I would target these guys last, or tarpit them in combat.

The Nid's are

Tyranid prime w/ Rending Claws

Venomthrope x2

20 Termagants

10 Hormagants w/ Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs

10 gargoyles w/ Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs

3 Carnifexes

Also a pretty terribad army. 2 venomthropes, so he can get coversaves on what? The 3 carnifexs he shouldnt be bringing? The squads of 10 gaunts and 10 gargoyles with full upgrades. The onlything decent in this army are the 20 termagaunts.

If you are meched up there is no way you cant handle this team. Kill the destroyers and carnifexs dead in the first 2 turns and you can laugh as the enemy has nothing meaningful on the table.

You should play ba razorspam btw. If the ultramarines are geared up as msu close range shooty like they should your armies will be near unstoppable. Me and a friend ran a nids/guard team twice at local team events and kicked the hell out of everyone we came across. The combination of excellent shooting and good combat mixed with good resilience just destroys people.

I've posted a mechanised razorback army. Have a look and see what you think.

**Corennus**

If you go with space marines then you get Hellfire rounds (sternguard)

1000 points:

Pedro Kantor
175

librarian
100
Null Zone & The avenger

ELITES

Sternguard ( 6 man)
x2 Combi-Flamers
x 4 Combi-Meltas
Razorback w/ T-L Plasma Gun & Lascannon
255

Sternguard (6 man)
x 2 Combi-Flamers
x 4 Combi-Meltas
Razorback w/ T-L Plasma Gun & Lascannon
255

TROOPS

Scout Squad ( 7 man)
Heavy Bolter w/ Hellfire Shells
111

Scout Squad ( 6 man)
Heavy Bolter w/Hellfire Shells
98

994 points

Hellfire shells and hellfire rounds to take on tyranids. Plasma guns and and lascannons for large monsters and necrons..

**CommissarCandlestick**

Corennus wrote:If you go with space marines then you get Hellfire rounds (sternguard)

1000 points:

Pedro Kantor
175

librarian
100
Null Zone & The avenger

ELITES

Sternguard ( 6 man)
x2 Combi-Flamers
x 4 Combi-Meltas
Razorback w/ T-L Plasma Gun & Lascannon
255

Sternguard (6 man)
x 2 Combi-Flamers
x 4 Combi-Meltas
Razorback w/ T-L Plasma Gun & Lascannon
255

TROOPS

Scout Squad ( 7 man)
Heavy Bolter w/ Hellfire Shells
111

Scout Squad ( 6 man)
Heavy Bolter w/Hellfire Shells
98

994 points

Hellfire shells and hellfire rounds to take on tyranids. Plasma guns and and lascannons for large monsters and necrons..

I play BA, so if I replaced Pedro Kantor with a captain (suggestions for equipment welcome) and give the librarian BA psychic powers, I could use this list. I'll recommend it to my partner though.

**Ravenous D**

You play guard, you should be fine. With the crons just get the marines to roll up on them with Mech as their anti tank is poop.

As for the nids you shoot them, starting with the venomthropes. A psyker battle squad woudnt hurt either that would make quick work of the crons.

However and Im going to be honest, you're a newbie, so your best bet is to get the codices and read them then maximize your force for max damage to point ratio.

Sun Tzu said it best:
If you know your enemy and you know yourself your victory will not stand in doubt. If you know yourself but not your enemy for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither your enemy nor yourself you will succumb in every battle.

EDIT:
I'll go against the grain and say avoid pieplates, Russes are crap.

**Eidolon**

Russes are good, but pie plates arent needed when facing a whopping 20 warriors. I psyker battle squad is always good, but not needed to beat necrons.

Shoot the venomthropes with weapons that are unlikely to hurt the carnifex, like multi lasers and such, although instant death could work. If those fexs get a 5+ save you are much worse off, though with guard you can generally drop them easily.

I think that razorspam ba and vendetta guard could do the trick. Not just for this match up, cause that nid/necron list is bad, but for anything. Fast moving multi purpose assault troops backed by fast moving shooty squads is a nightmare.