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less than hypothetical:

you sell something to person A
person A uses their brothers paypal to send payment
Brother disputes as he doesn't recognize the charge
person A tells him to drop claim


Does paypal still have to review it to send the money back to the seller or does it happen as soon as person B closes the claim?

I guess you're about to find out, in my experience, no. They should send it back as soon as it's cancelled.

Paypal will stop their "investigation" as soon as he drops the claim. I use the term investigation in the very loosest sense of the word.

so does that mean that person B closing the claim doesn't automatically clear the hold?

I was told(which I don't believe) that they closed the dispute but it shows as open on my end.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw it says reason: "inquiry by paypal" temporary hold

In my experience with paypal "shenanigans"

Pray.

Yeah. Paypal is excellent for 99.9999% of transactions, but when it goes wrong, someone is screwed.

so do I just tell the buyer to resend the money?

I refuse to get shafted for $300 here.

Does he owe you the money?

Yes.

The excuse about his brother's account sounds like crap to me.

File a counter claim with PAYPAL since the buyer hasn't paid for the goods.

There is a time limit of 45 days.

Upon reading up on paypals forums it appears that PAYPAL is the one who is holding it and disputing it. Several others have reported paypal randomly holding their money for several days and then EITHER refunding it to the buyer or clearing it to the seller.

If it isn't resolved soon I will have to counter dispute. I didn't want all this headache.

Athera wrote:In my experience with paypal "shenanigans"

Pray.

Yeah. Paypal is excellent for 99.9999% of transactions, but when it goes wrong, someone is screwed.

To paraphrase, in that respect, Paypal disputes are like a date with Kobe Bryant: You can kick and scream and fight, but at the end of the day... someone's getting screwed.

aerethan wrote:less than hypothetical:

you sell something to person A
person A uses their brothers paypal to send payment
Brother disputes as he doesn't recognize the charge
person A tells him to drop claim


Does paypal still have to review it to send the money back to the seller or does it happen as soon as person B closes the claim?

I sure hope you didn't ship yet...

If it's disputed, and you shipped then you had better show that you shipped to the "official" address, with delivery confirmation.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

aerethan wrote:less than hypothetical:

you sell something to person A
person A uses their brothers paypal to send payment
Brother disputes as he doesn't recognize the charge
person A tells him to drop claim


Does paypal still have to review it to send the money back to the seller or does it happen as soon as person B closes the claim?

I sure hope you didn't ship yet...

If it's disputed, and you shipped then you had better show that you shipped to the "official" address, with delivery confirmation.

This happened to me with n Italian Buyer.

They disputed it for non receipt, I had a customs number, with confirmed arrival in Italy, a scan of the dated USPS receipt with the package weight, dimensions and destination and a photo of the item and box AND a copy of the email were he requested 1st class mail international postage and declined insurance.

Paypal held my money for a week.

Paypal ignored my counter claim.

Paypal then sent the money back to the buyer for non receipt.

Their answer? I couldn't prove it made it to his door. Paypal always sides with buyers, they are more worried about seller fraud than buyer fraud. If you shipped it you are out the product.

Augustus wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I sure hope you didn't ship yet...

If it's disputed, and you shipped then you had better show that you shipped to the "official" address, with delivery confirmation.

This happened to me with n Italian Buyer.

Personally, I wouldn't do business of any substantial dollar value outside the US, and I wouldn't do business in Italy at all.

If I did, I'd demand that the Buyer pay for a shipping method that required Delivery Confirmation & signature (e.g. FedEx / UPS).

Good policy.

Russia and Italy aren't good places to ship to.
Packages get stolen often, so he might not have been trying to scam you.

If I ever send package worth over £5 I always make it Signed For delivery, which costs 70p in the UK and about £4 to overseas.

The reason I have adopted this policy is that I have never had a Signed For parcel "go missing" while several of my non Signed For parcels were "never delivered" to the buyer.

It also gives you a tracking number you can send to the buyer.

This particular instance is for virtual goods in the form of a warcraft account.

If paypal doesn't protect my end of it I can always fax my ID and what not to Blizzard to retrieve the account, I'd just rather not have to.

Blizzard might not give you the resolution you're looking for though...

Good luck!

Well it's not like I'm telling them I sold it. Merely that it is in use by someone who isn't me and without my permission.

I've had to do it before when I got hacked in December.

Oh, virtual goods? You're screwed.

Take back the account!

Yeah, I would take back the account, just be careful what you tell them, as my understanding is that Blizzard doesn't allow account transfer (except through their own service?)

Wait, it's for a Blizzard account? That makes it simple...

The account should be banned and matter declared settled since the buyer apparently doesn't want to acknowledge the purchase you didn't have authority to make the sale. Or did you miss the part in the terms of service where such account transfers aren't allowed?

I missed the part where that matters to paypal.

Where it matters to paypal is how you prove that virtual goods were delivered. It's inherently unprovable, so you *will* lose with paypal.

And to that end a WoW account can ALWAYS be recovered as long as you can fax them your ID.