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hiya, I recently bought a Imperial Guard Battleforce and 2 Leman Russes (normal versions), and I'm having a lot of trouble with choosing how to arm each squad up.

My general strategy for most games will be guardsmen as the frontline, backed up by russes, while vets rush ahead with meltas and flamers, along with banewolves and vendettas.

For the Platoon Command Squad, I was thinking of giving the platoon commander a fist, as I'll be dealing with space marines and want to make sure I drop at least one if CC, since I strike last anyway. I also want to give two other guys flamers, because if my gunline gets rushed, I need someway to fight back before I get slaughtered in CC. I don't want to upgrade them too much, so thats as far as I'll go there.

I was considering making the entire guardsmen squads all veterans, because I'm used to Marines BS and because I think 20 extra points for extra special weapons and BS 4 is worth it.

For my guardsmen squads, I was thinking of giving the objective grabbing ones a grenade launcher or flamer (insight needed here), and giving the sarge a PW and Plasma pistol, so they can perhaps h fight off, or at least tie up weak units that assualt them.

The gunline guard will probably have autocannons (i think heavy weapons sqauds on their own are weak) for dealing with marines/rhinos, and perhaps mortars for pinning. (again, insight needed)

The russes will have the normal battle cannon, as its the most multipurpose (tanks, infantry, heavy infantry), but the sponsons and hull mounted weapons are throwing me. I thought one could have a lascannon on the hull, for dealing with tanks, but sponsons for both I have no idea about.

I have no idea to equip the sentinel, I thought that the extra armour variant looks better (aesthetically), but scout sentinels would be better for flanking.

Thanks for reading, I'm open to changing all of this.

If you're running vets, dont bother with flamers. Meltas and Plasma should be the reason to take them. Flamers great aid platoons (especially a platoon command in a chimera for burning goodness).

A vanilla russ with a lascannon is usually sufficient. Sponsons are only good for complete anti infantry and being static

Ok, if I'm dealing with space marines, is there a need to add sponsons or is the cannon/lascannon effecient enough on its own?

Well lets go down the generic list of advice . . .
There is almost no reason to take Flamers on vets, ever. Especially if you have a platoon command squad handy, which is perfect for carrying 4 flamers.

I personally consider power fists/weapons a waste on anything other than a combined blob squad. Consider: The dude you are giving the fist only has 4 backup wounds and strikes at initiative 1. Anything harder than a Tac Squad will eat your squad alive, and that powerfist will net you an average of 1 dead marine a turn.

All vets is a valid build. If you do, consider investing in chimeras. Personally, I run one platoon for the platoon command squad of burny doom and for combined heavy weapons.
As for advancing vet squads, take 1 or 2 with melta guns in chimeras or vendettas/valks. Plasma guns are also good on vets.

Objective grabbing generally means chimeras.

Autocannons are good for stopping opposing transports. Personally, I'm not a big fan of mortars, but they are cheap. If you take them, you might want to put them in a heavy weapon squad since you can hide them behind something and rain death on your enemies.

Plain Leman Russes . . . depends on if you want to move them or not. If you think they'll move often, take a hull heavy flamer or possibly a hull heavy bolter and you're set. If it will stand still . . . well I would still go with the above, but heavy bolter sponsons might work.

Sentinels . . . well the unarmored version with autocannon or multilaser is generally fairly well regarded. Armored ones are fairly expensive for what they bring to the table, but they could work for you.

Also, consider a Manticore for your next purchase. It rocks. It'll basically own hordes, help against AV 14, and its not bad against everything else.
Edit: I consider the hull lascannon on a vanilla Leman Russ a pretty bad investment. Its battlecannon is anti-meq, a lascannon is anti vehicle.

Ok, thanks with the insight so far. I'm toying with the idea of running all mech vets, but I'm put off by their low survivability. Sure, its safe to stick them in Chimeras, but if they pop then thats a lot of points possibly gone. Would it be a good idea to give them all chimeras, and send them off to where they are needed in objective games, but in dawn of war missions to just stick them as a gunline, or even simply use normal squads instead with some vets for dealing with tanks.

Sentinel with Autocannon seems like the best idea, I'll run it with that I think.

Why would I want my Russes to be moving? (not a rhetorical question) I'm thinking that sponson heavy bolters would be best, as its on average its an extra 1 or 2 wounds to help deal with tactical squads.

Im definitely getting a manticore soon, the model is great and 4 D3 S10 Barrages sounds unbelievably fun to fire at MEQs.

For the PCS, I think I'll just give them all flamers and send them in to burn stuff.

I was also thinking of adding a banewolf for melting MEQs, in the hope that they'll stay alive with the line of chimeras in the way.

I guess I'll stick a heavy flamer and multilaser on the chimeras.

Also, you haven't addressed an HQ yet. Company Command Squads with 4x Plasma or Melta are generally my favorite option, but a Primaris Psyker isn't bad either if you want to spend less points.

Well if you move your russ 6" it'll be harder to melee. I'm not a fan of the heavy bolters, but they're cheap and not a bad choice overall. You could also consider plasma cannons if you're looking for killing meq even more.

I dont really like banewolves. They look great on paper but the hellhound has a lot more versatility

Plasma cannons look good, but theyre very expensive points wise. Do they tend to do their job in battle you have?

Whats the issue with the banewolf? Hellhounds only have AP 4, but at Str 6 they will kill T4, but I would prefer to give them no save at all.

My CCS will have plasmas I think, but I might take a Primaris psyker as Assualt Str 6 2D6 sounds amazing, but a commisar would hold the gunlines together, and a CCS has more survivability.

Lord Commissar is a waste. You have Orders and Commissars in infantry platoons if you're worrying about moral. Generally, by the point your squads start running, they're pretty dead anyway, except for blobs which need a built in commissar.
Plasma CCS is what I run, along with Primaris Psyker.

Hellhounds have range on their flamer, which is fun. However, I would suggest a Hull Multimelta on whichever variant you chose. It gives it a nice anti vehicle punch if your opponent lets it get too close.

Plasma Cannons . . . well they are good on Executioners. I have them on my demolisher, but it usually moves and so only gets one shot. It's your choice whether you think your army needs extra ap 2 small blasts, since IG is generally pretty good against Teq anyway. I've never run vanilla russes (I'm a fan of Basilisks for my long range ap 3)

Commander Jackurius wrote:Ok, thanks with the insight so far. I'm toying with the idea of running all mech vets, but I'm put off by their low survivability. Sure, its safe to stick them in Chimeras, but if they pop then thats a lot of points possibly gone. Would it be a good idea to give them all chimeras, and send them off to where they are needed in objective games, but in dawn of war missions to just stick them as a gunline, or even simply use normal squads instead with some vets for dealing with tanks.

Sentinel with Autocannon seems like the best idea, I'll run it with that I think.

Why would I want my Russes to be moving? (not a rhetorical question) I'm thinking that sponson heavy bolters would be best, as its on average its an extra 1 or 2 wounds to help deal with tactical squads.

Im definitely getting a manticore soon, the model is great and 4 D3 S10 Barrages sounds unbelievably fun to fire at MEQs.

For the PCS, I think I'll just give them all flamers and send them in to burn stuff.

I was also thinking of adding a banewolf for melting MEQs, in the hope that they'll stay alive with the line of chimeras in the way.

I guess I'll stick a heavy flamer and multilaser on the chimeras.

The Banewolf has the template touching the barrel tip, which means it has to be pretty close to what you want to kill. the Hellhound gives you some distance between the tank and what you're cooking.

and you move your Russ at least 6", so anybody trying to get into CC with it won't auto hit it. it can move up to 6" and still shoot.

Commander Jackurius wrote:My general strategy for most games will be guardsmen as the frontline, backed up by russes, while vets rush ahead with meltas and flamers, along with banewolves and vendettas.

This strategy is too complex for a new guard player to be able to actually get much success from. It involves too many pieces doing too many different things. If they don't all line up right (which it probably won't, to start), you're looking at forces being unsupportive of each other at best, and general bungling on the field at the worst. I'd simplify what you want your army to do.

If you want vets and russes, I'd take a mechvet+armored list. 5 chimeras rushing forward with 3 demolishers, for example.

kenshin620 wrote:I dont really like banewolves. They look great on paper but the hellhound has a lot more versatility

One of the worst points ever made. Banewolves are so much better than hellhounds, give them a hul mounted heavy flamer and they will destroy a unit.

Demolishers work great a str 10 pie plate works great on marines, drop flamers as there only good vs. nids,guard, and necron scarabs. Melta guns are the bomb for anti-marine/vehicle if there up close. Plasma guns rule the field and take em if you can. A catchan vet unit armed with melta guns and flamer can do alot of damage close up.

Ed_Bodger wrote:One of the worst points ever made. Banewolves are so much better than hellhounds, give them a hul mounted heavy flamer and they will destroy a unit.

... if they EVER get in range.

A banewolf is really only worth it if it gets a huge swath of stuff in a single blast. This means that it needs to start its turn roughly 12" away from its opponent. What opponent is going to be stupid enough to let his troops get within 12" and not make certain that the banewolf is dead?

Oh, except, of course, horde commanders, who will laugh when the tank kills all of a couple dudes and then is horribly destroyed after only clearing a handful of points off the field.

Like much of the worst of the guard codex, it will either be destroyed quickly if it's a threat (before it does much damage), and will be ignored entirely if it isn't.

banewolf = crap. Yes, in the ABSOLUTE PERFECT circumstances it can wipe out a tac squad in a single go, but those circumstances will almost never materialize. In most circumstances, prepare for suckage.

The simplist strategy.I have found and has accredited me with being a horrible but a wonderful army composer locally is...

Hq with officer of the fleet and veterans with free ccw and pistols on foot next to the cheesy setup inquisitor lord (hood mystics hierophant tarot) both standing within a 30 man blob of guardsmen units fitted with lascannon and 2x autocannon also with a bare commissar to anchor the blob.

Secondly, buy two bare bones minimum platoons. Give the guardsmen units a chimera and autocannon. You now have 3 pcs with no upgrades. Fit them with flamers if you wish, but the ultimate end is them flying in three separate vendettas. You now have roughly 1300-1400 points with 2 HQ and 8 scoring units because thos pcs make the vendettas scoring for thirty points when the only eligible unit for orders is protecting the ccs which can force them back into the fight.

The main point to remember with this setup is that you are a slowly moving gunline. Slowly maneuver your way across the battlefield and onto those objectives or create a rapid responding gunline to an all out assault

Your opponent will immediately target your vendettas. Use that first couple of turns to position your autocannon chimeras tithe correct position.

You can really make the guard complicated bt just sticking with one way and playing through a lot of games, it will begin to click. It took a while to get used to the new codex but there are endless ways to play the guard. Fnd yours. And show your opponents through victory

Never mix heavy weapons aimed at different targets. One lascannon blob + One Autocannon blob is much better than mixing the two.

The CCS can take 4 special weapons. Unless you are running Straken (and even then), taking CCW for them is a terrible idea. They're a great place to get 4x Melta or 4x Plasma into your list.

In fact, that whole advice isn't all that good of an idea. Guard with just infantry, with no heavy support, is just asking to be trashed.

ok, thanks for all the support. I agree with Ailaros, I think my strategy is a little ambitious for a first time guard player. I think I'll blob up autocannons and lascannons instead, as it means my squads arent forced to forfeit their turn of shooting to try and potentially fail at killing a tank, but at the cost of the HWS survivability. Is it best to just stick them at the back of the line and let them fire away?

As for plasmas, I've always been put off by "gets hot", but maybe its because I read the rules wrong, do you get an armour save or none because it would usually not allow one? Meltas sounds great but if my enemy is close enough for me to use meltas, surely he is too close?

Russes are a difficult choice now, main turret wise. Demolisher sounds good but would draw a lot of fire and may not even get a shot off, but its devastating and hard to pass on. The typical Battle Cannon looks good but I'm not sure if it would deal with enemies as well as the demolisher. Executioner looks awesome, might have to take one of those as well.

I'll definitely stick a commisar in one of the gunline squads, not sure about my CCS. I guess I'll keep them near the front to keep people in the fight.

I'm starting to see the issue with the banewolf, hellhound normal variant sounds good, however, it might not be useful enough against MEQ.

Manticore sounds like a shoo in for my next purchase.

Commander Jackurius wrote:
As for plasmas, I've always been put off by "gets hot", but maybe its because I read the rules wrong, do you get an armour save or none because it would usually not allow one? Meltas sounds great but if my enemy is close enough for me to use meltas, surely he is too close?

You get an armor save. With carapace armor that's a 4+ to just ignore Gets Hot (which only happens 1/6th of the shots anyway. So 1 in 12 shots kills the gunner) You could take a medic + 3 plasmas, then you'd get a 5+ to ignore the wound and also a 4+ FNP to ignore the wound too.

I've taken 4 grenade launchers several fights and they're never gotten a single kill. A single plasma gun shot kills marines 3x faster than a krak grenade. Then when they move and still fire twice that's six times more dead marines.

I've had a plasma command squad kill like 6 marines and 6 terminators with the commander and 1 gunner left. That's 325 points (or more) killed for me losing only 63 points of gunners. 5 grenade launchers might've killed 1 or 2 guys total instead of 12 (and the guys would be alive to murder them.)

Melta is decent but has no 24" sniper range and can't shoot twice up close. Plasma guns are probably even better anti-tank other than 6" range. 24" melta can't shoot, plasma can damage a vehicle. At 12" the plasma 2 S7 shots probably equal the 1 S8 shot melta against vehicles.

Furthermore, against Monsters and Vehicles, you can issue Bring It Down to reduce your Gets Hot damage too. You get re-rolls to hit which is great with a bunch of S7 shots, but also reduces your chance of Gets Hot to 1/36 because the bad result is rerolled. Then half of your Gets Hot are ignored by carapace armor, meaning 1 in 72 chance of taking a wound from firing plasma at a daemon prince or enemy sentinel, etc.

With bring-it-down TL it's getting 2 shots that hit 8 out of 9 times.

On a game that'll probably have 4 or 5 turns of shooting, if I can kill 3-8 things on 2+ even if they're marines or terminators, it certainly pays for the 15 points of the gun (1 marine costs that much.)
It's better to live short and do huge damage than live long and kill 0 units like a grenade launcher or flamer against 2+ or 3+ armor saves.