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I haven't run Marines since 4th edition. I have the 5th edition codex, but my old army that used to fit in 1500pts (with quite a few more options than even exist now) balloons over that point range now.

I generally run a support character HQ (I'll be running a Librarian in my 5th edition army), but also want to run a captain. This isn't a problem points wise. However, I generally run 3 full tactical squads, an assault squad and a land raider. I've dropped the land raider for a pair of Predators, but still, infantry wise, I'm getting 3 10 man tactical squads, a 5 man assault squad, and a 5 man devastator squad. Is this normal in a 5th edition Space Marine army? Initially the points values looked lower, but just a few options makes the point range explode.

The name of the game in 5th edition is Mech. Everything needs a transport for mobility, and survivability.

As far as what's in the codex, the most commonly used units are as follows:

HQ **Note** It is usually wise to take only a single HQ at 1,500 or below. At around the 2k level you can branch out and take a second HQ, but for lower points its not really worth it.
Forgefather Vulkan He'Stan of the Salamanders - Meltaguns, Multi-Meltas, Heavy Flamers and Thunder Hammers are all extremely common in 5th edition due to the prevalence of mechanized forces and cover saves. Vulkan improves all of those weapons by making them either twin-linked or master crafted, which is a HUGE bonus. As a result, he is probably the most commonly used commander in the Codex.
Pedro Cantor - Pedro Kantor makes for some excellent gunline lists. He makes Sternguard scoring units and he himself is a strong ranged combatant and decent in melee. He isn't used as often as Vulkan, nor does he offer such ridiculous benefits, but he is quite popular.
Librarian - There are a lot of psychic forces out there that are very powerful. Between Rune Priests, Lash of Submission, Warptime, Doom/Fortune, and Fear of the Darkness, the need for psychic protection is a lot greater than it was in 4th edition. Additionally Librarians make for excellent commander choices since they are inexpensive and bring powers like Null Zone, Gate of Infinity and The Avenger, all of which are particularly strong.
Captain - Captains are not all that common, but when taken they are usually wielding a Relic Blade and a Bolter with Hellfire Rounds and leading either Sternguard or Terminators. Sternguard at the better option for a Captain, and Terminators work better for a Librarian. It's almost NEVER worth the extra 30 points for a Chapter Master, nor is it worth it to take Command Squads or Honor Guard. Most times those units are outclassed by other units for fewer points.

Elites
Assault Terminators - Assault Terminators are the bread and butter of most assault oriented Space Marine lists. They make an excellent Death Star unit when lead by Vulkan and stuck in a Land Raider, and in most other cases they are just plain strong. I highly recommend looking into taking this unit. The normal Terminator Variants can work in some cases as ranged support lead by a Librarian with Gate of Infinity and The Avenger, but Assault Terminators generally outclass them just for their survivability.
Sternguard Veterans - Sternguard Veterans are commonly used as ranged support for Pedro Kantor lists but they also make a great bodyguard for a Captain or a Librarian. Null Zone compliments their Kraken rounds quite well and a Captain adds decent ranged firepower with Hellfire shells and decent melee support with a Relic Blade. I don't recommend more than a single squad though unless you are fielding Pedro Kantor as they do tend to get expensive. It's also wise to take at least 4 or 5 Combi-Weapons for the unit (Start with 3x Combi-Meltas and go from there) to increase their anti-tank potential.
Dreadnoughts - Dreadnoughts can be used effectively in three formats. First is the Rifleman, which takes 2x TL Autocannons for ranged support. They pump out a decent amount of fire in this configuration and don't often miss, and they are reliable at destroying most basic transports. Second is a variation on the Rifleman which takes a Lascannon and a Missile Launcher. It has higher strength than the Rifleman but fewer shots. The third is a Multi-Melta and Heavy Flamer in a Drop Pod, which is used for up-front anti-tank in a shock-and-awe type list. They drop in first turn and pop Land Raiders or other nasty vehicles, or root out infantry with their Heavy Flamers and then assault. In any case, they are best used in pairs for redundancy and survivability, and the Venerable version is NEVER worth the extra points. Ironclads are very nice though, and can be used in place of the MM/HF variants for slightly more points when given a Heavy Flamer.

Troops
Tactical Squads - The meat of any Space Marine force. Tactical Squads are best when taken cheap and shoved in Rhinos. Take a Missile Launcher and Flamer or Meltagun depending on the needs of your list, then with any leftover points consider giving the Sergeant a Combi-Weapon. Plasma is not advised in 5th edition due to the ease of getting cover saves. If you are fielding a Vulkan list, take a Multi-Melta instead of a Missile Launcher. Their transports should be pretty bare bones. Extra Armor is not worth the points in this edition except on Land Raiders carrying Assault Terminators, so sticking with a cheap Rhino is the best idea.
Scouts - Usually the best way to field these is with Sniper Rifles and a Missile Launcher. If you have leftover points, Telion is a good option and adds a lot to the unit. A single unit for fire support is usually enough since Tactical Squads put out more firepower and are more survivable.

Fast Attack **Note**Assault Squads are just not worth it for Vanilla Marines. Assault Terminators do far better in every respect. If you want to use Assault Marines I recommend looking into Blood Angels.
Land Speeders - Most people field these as single model units and give them a Multi-Melta and Heavy Flamer. They make for great Deep Strikers and at 70 points they are an affordable distraction that can be a serious threat to your opponents heavy tanks if he forgets about them. Sometimes Typhoon Launchers are taken which is fine, but they are very expensive in that configuration for an AV10 vehicle.
Bikes - Bikes are not used as Fast Attack in most cases. They are generally only fielded in all bike lists with a Captain on a Bike and a Command Squad on Bikes (The one and only time they are worth the investment!).

Heavy Support **Note** Devastators are not advised in 5th edition. They are overpriced for what they bring to the table. Considering Space Wolves get 6 Long Fangs with 5 Missile Launchers for 140 points while Space Marines get 5 Devastators with 4 Missile Launchers for 150, I'd recommend playing Space Wolves if you insist on fielding lots of Devastators.
Land Raiders - All variants of the Land Raider have a place in Space Marine forces, and it's the single best tank we have. It's expensive, but it makes an excellent transport for Assault Terminators. The standard Godhammer pattern is a strong ranged support tank and packs a punch. Giving it a Multi-Melta is usually a good idea since it will generally fire one Lascannon and the Multi-Melta at one target, and POTMS the other Lascannon or the Heavy Bolter at another. The Crusader pattern is nice as anti-infantry and can carry larger squads, but it should also be given a Multi-Melta for similar reasons. The Redeemer is not used as often as the other two, but it does have some unique weapons. The double Flamestorm cannons are marine killers that ignore cover, which is essential for rooting units out of terrain. Just like the rest it should be given a Multi-Melta.
Predators - Predators are generally only used in two configurations. The first, and most common, is the Dakka Pred, with an Autocannon and a pair of Heavy Bolters. It's cheap and puts out a lot of shots at decent range, and makes for very good fire support especially if accompanied by Rifleman Dreadnoughts. The second uses the Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsions, but its a lot more expensive and I don't recommend it due to LoS issues.
Vindicators - Vindicators are dangerous to use, but if used correctly they make for an awesome fire-soak for a Land Raider mounted Terminator unit. I wouldn't take them in a gunline list though since Predators will give you better coverage for a cheaper price.

There are a lot of solid combos out there right now, and one of my personal favorites is a Vulkan list:

Vulkan - 190
5 Assault Terminators (Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields) - 200
Dreadnought (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod) - 150
Dreadnought (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod) - 150
Tactical Squad (Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Combi-Flamer, Rhino) - 220
Tactical Squad (Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Combi-Flamer, Rhino) - 220
Tactical Squad (Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs, Drop Pod) - 225
Land Raider Redeemer (Multi-Melta, Extra Armor) - 265
Vindicator - (115)
Vindicator - (115)
Total 1,850

It can be carved down to 1,500 by dropping the Dreadnoughts and stripping down the Tactical Squads (all of which would then be in Rhinos), and at 2,000 points you could add either a unit of Scout Snipers or a pair of MM/HF Land Speeders depending on what you want to do.

This list can also be done without Vulkan, instead taking a Librarian with Null Zone and Gate of Infinity, in which case the extra points could be used to add Dozer Blades to the Vindicators and upgrade the Land Raider Redeemer to a Godhammer pattern.

Anyway, I hope that helps you find your bearings in 5th edition. I didn't mean to turn it into a novella but I know it can be daunting when you are first tarting with the new rules coming from 4th edition.

Cheers!

Well, that was certainly comprehensive.

I'm avoiding running special character lists. This is one of the reason I'm changing from Salamanders. I love them, but they're too prominent now. My tactical squads will all be in Rhinos. They weren't before (mainly because I lacked the money to buy the Rhinos), but will be now. They'll probably have Missile Launcher/Flamer and Combi Flamer on the sergeant.

Not sure if I want to try and squeeze my old Land Raider into my list. It was basically an anti-tank crutch in my old list, and I want to avoid leaning on it. Though it would make a pretty good way to get my Librarian or Captain around.

I've said this in another thread, but I'm still not seeing why Assault Marines are bad. But hey, I don't play against overly competitive people, so using a squad of them shouldn't be a problem. I'm not overly interested in making a tournament level list.

-Loki- wrote:Well, that was certainly comprehensive.

I'm avoiding running special character lists. This is one of the reason I'm changing from Salamanders. I love them, but they're too prominent now. My tactical squads will all be in Rhinos. They weren't before (mainly because I lacked the money to buy the Rhinos), but will be now. They'll probably have Missile Launcher/Flamer and Combi Flamer on the sergeant.

Not sure if I want to try and squeeze my old Land Raider into my list. It was basically an anti-tank crutch in my old list, and I want to avoid leaning on it. Though it would make a pretty good way to get my Librarian or Captain around.

I've said this in another thread, but I'm still not seeing why Assault Marines are bad. But hey, I don't play against overly competitive people, so using a squad of them shouldn't be a problem. I'm not overly interested in making a tournament level list.

Assault Marines are "bad" because they lack any reliable way of getting into combat without being shot to death before they do so, and they are too costly to use as a sacrificial unit like that. Aside from their movement they are essentially normal Space Marines in every regard, and thus just as susceptible to massed fire as any normal Tactical Squad. They can Deep Strike and run, but then they are out in the open and unengaged; easily targeted by a mobile opponent and shot to pieces before they have a chance to get into combat. They also lack much of the special weaponry options that other chapter's Assault Marines can take. Blood Angels, for instance, can take an Assault Squad with a Power Fist and 2x Meltaguns for 235 points which gives them a decent amount of anti-tank firepower when they deep strike. Blood Angels also have Sanguinary Priests which give their Assault Marines Feel No Pain (the equivalent of a 2+ save statistically) and makes them MUCH less susceptible to massed fire.

Lacking the weapon options and support models to make them difficult to crack, Vanilla Assault Marines are far below the level of efficiency needed to make them viable in most settings. If you want to use them for fluff purposes or for your own reasons and don't care that they are an inefficient unit, then by all means! It's your force, not mine! I only posted what I use as general guidelines when designing a competitive force so if you have preferences that lie outside that guideline you are certainly free to use them

Switch the Rhinos for Razorbacks with Lass/TL-Plass, an effective way to increase the firepower and mobility of an army.

I run assult squads in my Space Marine army, the only thing with them is that they have to be treated like a glass sword and used very carefully.

Aldarionn has put together a pretty comprehensive list there what I'd like to add is:

If you don't want a SP Character driven army you're better of with wolves or Angels pretty much everytime.

Assault Terminators should always all be TH/SS.

The AC/LC Pred is actually a hugely effective tool for taking on transports a cheaper and in my oppinion better option than the Rifleman Dread.

Sniper Scouts should have camo-cloaks and don't expect them to ever kill anything. THey objective camp, any kills are just a bonus.

However assault scouts can be very effective. The Land Speeder Storm is one of the best delivery systems in the game (if only it could carry 5 Terminators). Whilst having Shrike in the list boosts their effectiveness to.

With Tacticals the trick is to ensure that the sergeants combi matches the squads special weapon. Too many people try to mix them and then the unit rather than being effective against different things becomes effective against nothing, stick to the squad being good against 1 target and they will actually do well for you. Howeever tactical squads are the weakest troops choice out there for the new SM codexes (Scouts and assault marines are superior, whilst Grey Hunters are in a different league).

However Aldarionn's list is pretty brutal. You couldn't go much wrong with it but I'd swap the combi's to match the squads special weapons in the tacs.