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Ive just recently started playing Warhammer fantasy. I went for a Skaven army, and taking a block of 50 slaves in a 1000 point force.

I was wondering what peoples thought were on this idea. They will benefit from the horde rule but is it risky?

They will be armed with slings and shileds.

for skaven, I actually think horde is a bit risky since you can easily lose a few ranks quickly while being in a non horde formation can give some breathing space. Still if you have a musician you can easily swap back and forth I think to suit your needs

50 is what I use them in. I dont really see the purpose in a horde formation tho or slings. I mean they'll always be moving or marching.. That means they'll hit on 7s with multiple shot at close range

Shields are alright but for a unit of 50 you're looking at 25 points which is another 13 slaves! Shields will only save 1 in 6 so you're looking at 13x6 kills before they even make back their points

In case you didnt notice 13x6 is more models than the unit has

Drop the slings and sheilds and dont make em a horde
but 50 slaves is really anoying to face

Yeah, at 1000 points, 50 slaves ranked up 5 wide can pretty much hold up most any unit you might expect to face. With the right other toys, you can keep shelling that unit with scorch, warp lightning, cannons, weapon teams, etc, etc

For this type of unit you have to go with ranks of 5 wide and 10 deep to keep up your 'Strength in Numbers' and 'Steadfast' as long as possible. If you keep the unit in range of your general and BSB then you have yourself a unit that is Stubborn with Leadership 10 as long as they have at least 3 ranks and have more ranks then the enemy unit, which they will always have because the other armies have no reason the be going this deep. If you wish to be running this unit away from your army for whatever reason then take a bare naked Warlock Engineer for 15pts and then you can use his LD + 3 for rank bonus = stubborn on LD 8 which isn't bad either. I personally take shields on mine but you certainly do not need to. The thing is even with the shields they are really really cheap for what they do for you so I take them and that 6+ ward save sometimes comes in VERY handy and other times does nothing. Either way you have one of the best/cheapest tarpits in the game.

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

The reason i gave them the slings was so they had a shooty option. 40 stones flying at you I know most of the time they hit on 7s but if they stand and shoot it could come in handy. I still need to play test em more. Also my army is Roman themed so this seemed to fit.

I do take a naked warlock with them aswell for leadership.

Here is my 1000 point army tell us what you think. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319303.page

Roman line infantry didn't use slings though. Those were the skirmishers who preceded the force. Roman blocks of troops used Pilums/Javalins as their ranged weapons.

The clanats are going to be my Roman line infantry though. The slave are more like a cross between a slave, and auxiliary. The auxiliaries were normally recruited from Romans that did not hold a Roman citizenship. Also Barbarian tribes that had been conquered. Skaven slave are quite similar, they can be relay anything from a scrawny rat to a captured elf. Each tribe would probably have had there own fighting styles and weapons.

Roman rats

the more I think about it, the more I like this army concept. Can you build a testudo formation to use as a hellpit?

Malleus wrote:the more I think about it, the more I like this army concept. Can you build a testudo formation to use as a hellpit?

I like that idea! although might be a bit short imo.

Back to the original point of this thread I rather agree with Exodus, the 50 rats are a good idea but don't go for a horde with that many, sure hordes multiply killing power but when you double 1 you still only get 2, I for one am thinking of doing 7x7 a that level and having a sizable long lasting block that can still outnumber enemy's on the front line.

Kirasu wrote:50 is what I use them in. I dont really see the purpose in a horde formation tho or slings. I mean they'll always be moving or marching.. That means they'll hit on 7s with multiple shot at close range

Shields are alright but for a unit of 50 you're looking at 25 points which is another 13 slaves! Shields will only save 1 in 6 so you're looking at 13x6 kills before they even make back their points

In case you didnt notice 13x6 is more models than the unit has

They save 1/3 against S3 in melee, and every save is less CR for the opponent. There's little point to tar-pitting a unit and flanking it if you can never beat them in combat since the slaves die by the dozens.

Crunching numbers is one thing, but after two weeks of running one unit with shields and one without, that ward save has cropped up enough to my opponent's annoyance to convince me to buy shields for the second unit as well.

Slings are a waste though.

The Shields i always take. 1 for the same reason as you and 2 They are modeled on my slave.

I would not underestimate the slings though. I was charged by sword masters and managed to kill 2 on stand and shoot reaction. that is 30 points, were the slings cost me 25 points to outfit my 50 slaves with them.

As far as 2, the IoB rats are a great way to build up your core cheaply, and they come armed with shields.

Each set has 15 unarmored bodies, 13 mildly armored models, and 12 fully decked out. If it weren't for the fact that shields are not so great for stormvermin, you could get all three main core units in the box (most of the "spears" are easily hefty enough to be halberds).

Yeah i know.

I got 4 sets of 20 clan rats on ebay for around £8 each set.

Then me and my friend went halves on the IOB anyways.

120 Clan rats woo hoo!!!!

blak43 wrote:Back to the original point of this thread I rather agree with Exodus, the 50 rats are a good idea but don't go for a horde with that many, sure hordes multiply killing power but when you double 1 you still only get 2, I for one am thinking of doing 7x7 a that level and having a sizable long lasting block that can still outnumber enemy's on the front line.

I agree, that's why I run 5 wide and 10 deep. 7x7 is nice also. Horde is a no go for me.

What kind of advantages do you see (other than aesthetics) in the 7x7? The extra slave attacks in exchange for taking more attacks back against anything horde-ish seems like not so great a trade-off.