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Hey Guys!
i'v just acquired the Knight Commander Pask model, and according to the codex he commands the hand of steel leman russ. but nowhere does it actually say what variant/sponsons/extra stuff it has. any suggestions as i want to make it as correct seeming as possible.

This probably belongs into tactics/make da call does it not?

He commands any(!!!) Leman Russ. yes that means if you want you can have a BS4 punisher or something else

i figured army lists, as i have to decide for my army list which leman russ. but i can see how it would fit in tactics. i wasnt sure if he could go in any, or if the hand of steel was a specific leman russ?

Fluff has nothing to do with the rules. The codex says he can be taken as an upgrade to any leman russ.

Personally I find Pask to be a complete waste. Too expensive and the tanks the benefit from him the most (Punisher/Vanquisher) are the two most worthless variants we have. To use him to the fullest the tank also needs to be stationary........and static tanks tend to be dead tanks.

Not worth it.

This is more of a tactics query than an actual army list so I'm going to move that over there. No biggie however.

I have seen him used to deadly affect in the tonso'plasma variant Russ tank..as the burnt out remnants of my terminators would tell you if they could.

Speculation on my part, I don't play IG, however, Vanquisher is a good bet. 72" S8, 2d6 pen, with Pask's +1 to damage rolls and Bs4, effectively a 220 pt 72" range meltagun with associated effectively AP1 lascannon. Probably not a great use of points, but should be reasonably effective on the table, plus it can hide in a squadron, or at least use it to get a save.
Basically as far as I understand the fluff, it's the tank ace's tank of choice, as the tank hunter variant of the Leman Russ. It may just be my personal coloring of the fluff, or speculation, but in my mind a "Tank Ace" doesn't become an ace by slaughtering troops, but by killing other tanks.

If you think Pask is a massive waste of points, try fitting Chronus into a codex space marines list in a meaningful manner.

Hey sol put him in a punisher! good man

Any tank which relies on BS rather than scatter dice would be a good choice. Obviously a vanquisher with lascannon, and possibly multimeltas, or a punisher with heavy bolters, are common choices. The problem is that neither of these tanks are really much good. With the vanquisher you're paying a LOT for 1-2 rolls on the damage table, which aren't AP1. The punisher, while Heavy 20 may sound impressive, doesn't result in many wounds due to a lower to-wound roll than template tanks.

One build I have heard of is an exterminator with heavy bolters. Due to the +1 penetration to vehicles, and to-wound reroll against MCs, this tank would be very good against light vehicles and MCs.

Regarding the background, I think it says in the codex that Pask has had various tanks destroyed under him, and always moves to another leman russ and renames it, so don't feel constrained by that.

While I do not use Pask myself many of my regular IG opponents occasionally use him...in special battles. Spearhead, Apocalypse and Planetstrike where the point limit is generally higher and the Big Stuff ( monsters, tanks ) is more prevalent. In normal games he is expensive and makes his tank (or squadron ) take on a huge Most Wanted status.

Xeonicfront wrote:Speculation on my part, I don't play IG, however, Vanquisher is a good bet. 72" S8, 2d6 pen, with Pask's +1 to damage rolls and Bs4, effectively a 220 pt 72" range meltagun with associated effectively AP1 lascannon. Probably not a great use of points, but should be reasonably effective on the table, plus it can hide in a squadron, or at least use it to get a save.
Basically as far as I understand the fluff, it's the tank ace's tank of choice, as the tank hunter variant of the Leman Russ. It may just be my personal coloring of the fluff, or speculation, but in my mind a "Tank Ace" doesn't become an ace by slaughtering troops, but by killing other tanks.

If you think Pask is a massive waste of points, try fitting Chronus into a codex space marines list in a meaningful manner.

I don't have the codex in front of me but I thought Pask only gave +1 to the armour pen roll and not damage tables.

Exterminator is most likely the most affective tank he can be placed in, closely followed by the punisher (although he's expensive what what he provides in both cases) He'd make the Vanquisher almost worthwhile if it didn't cost so much for what it provides.

reds8n wrote:I have seen him used to deadly affect in the tonso'plasma variant Russ tank..as the burnt out remnants of my terminators would tell you if they could.

No space marine commander likes to see their terminators fried, however all Pask is bringing to the Executioner is -1" off the blast marker scatter... worth 50pts?

It also makes the plasma weapons that bit deadlier against light tanks as well.

..as the shattered and burnt out wrecks of my rhinos would tell you if they could.



1" is often the difference between a hit or a miss, especially against vehicles. IIRC his BS also applies to a HK missile as well right ?

Pask generally isn't worth it for normal games. He just costs too much and does too little.

Even if a Punisher is BS4 its still a bad buy. 20 shots sounds awesome on paper but when you realize you have to hit and wound and they still get armor / cover saves its not that good for the high cost. It also is ineffective vs vehicles.

Vanquisher also only has 2 shots anti tank shots for an expensive price and is not good vs infantry. If the Vanquisher retained the ability to shoot regular battle cannon shells it might see some play.

Putting Pask in the Leman Russ Executioner just makes it way to expensive with minimal gains.

Where Pask is actually good is with the Apoc Datasheet where he can give orders to Leman Russ Squadrons making them fire their main guns twice or making their main guns twin linked.

I've only used him a couple times. But when I did, I threw him in an exterminator w/ HB sponsons and was pleased with the results. The autocannon + his rule make him useful against transports and his BS makes him good against troops.

My bad, I don't play IG, I was going off memory, apparently faulty.
The plasma tank(executioner IIRC?) gets little benefit from him, as all he does is make the blasts a little(average of half an inch) less scattery, and while he makes plasma slightly more effective vs vehicles, firing your 5 plasma cannon tank of doom against at an AV target is a generally last resort idea under the current template weapon rules, it's all or nothing according to P60 of the BRB, you only roll for scatter for the first shot VS an AV target, at least in my understanding of the little note there on multiple blast templates. Of course if I'm wrong, I'd be very happy because I've always thought that was a little daft.

well, i already own the model, just not the leman russ. i wasnt so much bothered with "how good", more as the background story of his traditional leman russ. But this has helped me change my mind haha Il probably put him in the exterminator variant, as twin linked auto-cannons would make easy work on light tanks, and 1" less scatter doesnt seem all that helpful. cheers guys

Magnetize him and leave the cupola of your tank open. that way you can move him to whichever one you want, or leave him out completely.

That could work. but im not really the kinda guy to buy too many tanks. bites into my pocket far too much to be honest.

I used to run Pask in a Vanquisher....and against people who hadn't played him before...

Well you could see their eyes go wide as I described his special rules, and the Vanquisher's special rules to them. Thus making Pask the 'must kill' unit on my side of the table. I must say, it does help when so much firepower goes to one tank. Sure, it's one dead tank, but it's also my melta vets 12" closer to the enemy. It's my multimelta Banewolves getting close enough to blast things next turn. It's a turn of my vanilla Russes firing unmolested. Even against veteran players, Pask is too much of a risk to not try and kill him.

Is this competitive? Probably not. Is it great in fun games? Yep!

Spiff wrote:I've only used him a couple times. But when I did, I threw him in an exterminator w/ HB sponsons and was pleased with the results. The autocannon + his rule make him useful against transports and his BS makes him good against troops.

one word: Hydras.

And for the cost of all that stuff you're getting, you can buy nearly 3 hydras (220 points for Exterminator, 225 points for Hydras). 3 Hydras = 24 re-rollable autocannon shots.

I'd take that over Pask any day...

12 rerollable shots, but still, you do WAY more damage, and get to ignore SMF to boot!

Really? I thought Hydras came armed with 2 Hydra autocannons.....

=Checks Codex=

Ahh, yeah you're right. Sorry, for some reason I though Hydra autocannons were Heavy 4. But the point still stands that you can get way more dakka and death out of 3 Hydras then one LR Exterminator.

Nothing in the game is better anti tank than panquisher with lascannon and multi meltas. And as someone just mentioned you might even be able to use a hunter killer on him. (Im not sure though.)

ChocolateGork wrote:Nothing in the game is better anti tank than panquisher with lascannon and multi meltas. d as someone just mentioned you might even be able to use a hunter killer on him. (Im not sure though.)

Uhhhh, no. Wrong. If you're taking multimeltas, you're ruining the chief purpose of taking a Vanquisher with Pask. Range. The IG can kill tanks up close like there's no tomorrow, melta vets see to that. Pask in a Vanquisher is designed to kill tanks from far away, and the lascannon does help with that. But think about how much you're paying for that (reduced price!)....155+15+50. 220 points for a tank tricked out to kill other tanks, and it (at best) will kill one tank a turn, and that's if you're lucky with your damage rolls. 3

Now let's go with what you suggested. 30 extra points. Now we've paid as much as a Land Raider for a tank that won't do as much killing, won't get to fire its multimeltas unless somethings gone horribly, horribly wrong, and is not as heavily armored. That alone would make me not want to touch it, but let's look at what that 250 points could have bought you.

1) 2x Veterans w/ 3x Melta Each (50 points to spare)
2) 3 x Hydra (25 points to spare)
3) Manticore (90 points to spare)
4) Leman Russ Executioner w/ Plasma Sponsons (20 points to spare)
5) 2x Basilisk
6) 2x Medusa w/ Bastion breachers (30 points more)
7) 2x Vendettas (10 points more)

I'm willing to bet most people would rather take any of those above options. Even with the ones you have to pay a bit more money more, note that you're taking 2 tanks instead of just dumping all your points into 1.

And woop dee ing do that you get a HK. That's 10 more points onto an already overpriced unit (which now means that you could have taken 2 Vendettas in its place). I'm tempted to ask...what would kill more tanks? The tricked out Panquisher....or 2 Vendettas.

Depends on your opponent. not much is going to be happening with those lascannons if the enemy took land raiders or other leman russes.

And are you really suggesting that melta vets are going to bring down every-single vehicle that comes within 24 inches? A smart opponent that has the option would focus any deep-striking or fast assault units on taking down the vets or just hit them with any barrage weapon and they will fold.

And even if the paper thin vets survive the trip there in their paper thin chimera then the chance of three meltaguns taking down a vehicle is sadly not that high especially with the 1-2 curse that GW put on them.

if you are playing gunline then you can anchor your force around him and even take a cheaper Russ with him to take fire. Then if you castle infantry around him and protect his back (board edge or other vehicle is good) he will be killing one vehicle a turn that comes within 24 other than a land raider which he will open up when it it gets close.

But that's my opinion of him. he can also be put in the exact opposite position of your army so the enemy has to direct lots of resources to kill him or take shooting from him in the rear/side Armour

ChocolateGork wrote:Depends on your opponent. not much is going to be happening with those lascannons if the enemy took land raiders or other leman russes.

Even if there were Leman Russes or Land Raiders, I could have that Vendetta zipping around blasting transports, or dropping melta vets off to kill the Land Raiders. Even then, I could still be using those 3 twin linked lascannons to pick off big, threatening MCs or infantry. The point is that it's flexible. The Vanquisher can only kill tanks. If there are no tanks to kill, it's useless.

And are you really suggesting that melta vets are going to bring down every-single vehicle that comes within 24 inches? A smart opponent that has the option would focus any deep-striking or fast assault units on taking down the vets or just hit them with any barrage weapon and they will fold.

Not that they'll kill every vehicle within 24". The Panquisher won't do that either. It can kill one vehicle each turn, but that's not going to kill off 5 Rhinos before they pop up and melta you to death. The 2 veterans squads will reliably kill at least two tanks a turn, basically. Not to mention...you roll a 5. Oh, the Chimera's dead. Now my Guardsmen get a cover save! As opposed to the Panquisher, roll a 5 on a damage table. Oh, 1/8 of your entire army is gone.

And even if the paper thin vets survive the trip there in their paper thin chimera then the chance of three meltaguns taking down a vehicle is sadly not that high especially with the 1-2 curse that GW put on them.

Chimera's are pretty reliable little guys, especially if your darting from cover to cover and using smoke when necessary. Three melta guns? Not taking down a vehicle? Excuse me? With your reference to the curse, I'm gonna imagine your being sarcastic here.... But let's do the math. Within melta range, 3 veteran meltas. They hit on 3s, so 66% chance to hit. Let's say we're attacking a Rhino, which is probably the most common chassis in 40k today, I'd guess. You'd have a 92% chance to pen it. Each shot has a 50% chance of wrecking the Rhino. So, each melta shot has a total of.... a 31% chance to destroy the Rhino with each melta shot. I wouldn't call that 'not high' for taking out a Rhino, especially since I have 6 of these shots.

More importantly, the Vanquisher suffers from the 1-2 curse too. So what if your shell punches through a Land Raider hull if your roll a 1 on the damage table? 6 melta shots means I have a higher chance of doing serious damage, since I have much more shots than Pask's Vanquisher would at range.

if you are playing gunline then you can anchor your force around him and even take a cheaper Russ with him to take fire. Then if you castle infantry around him and protect his back (board edge or other vehicle is good) he will be killing one vehicle a turn that comes within 24 other than a land raider which he will open up when it it gets close.

But that's my opinion of him. he can also be put in the exact opposite position of your army so the enemy has to direct lots of resources to kill him or take shooting from him in the rear/side Armour

If you're playing gunline, why not put lascannons in the infantry squads? Or spam heavy weapons squads? You could field 6 lascannons for the cost of Panquisher, with orders those 6 lascannons have a decent chance of picking off transports one by one, or maybe getting a couple lucky shots on either type of LR. Yes, you can use him as an anchor, and yes he will kill a few tanks, but my point is you could take so many other units for the ridiculous amount of points being paid into this one tank, and those other units are: a) More flexible b) generally cheaper than the Panquisher.

ChocolateGork wrote:Nothing in the game is better anti tank than panquisher with lascannon and multi meltas. And as someone just mentioned you might even be able to use a hunter killer on him. (Im not sure though.)

Nothing in the guard codex has more raw effectiveness crammed into a single unit, yes, but to say he's overall the best anti-tank is definitely wrong. In a perfect situation, he can do a lot of damage, but not only will you never find yourself in those circumstances (can anyone say "vehicle shaken"?), but it's INSANE price makes it a very low-efficiency anti-tank unit, which throws a multimelta HK HLC Pasquisher straight out the window.

Spending several hundred points just to take out a couple 50 point transports any given game is doing your opponent a huge favor.

It truly is ironic how the internet works.


I happen to be the poster of that picture of marneus calgar on the internet. I asked my friend to make it for me.

Dont believe me? Heres the high res version. Only posted on dawn of war files, youll find it no where else unless its been reposted.

Back on topic. Fluff wise Id say he would be in a good ol normal leman russ, but you CAN put him in anything. Vanquisher would be what I would imagine he commands. (still dont believe me? ill post the other one in the collection if so!)

ChrisWWII wrote:Really? I thought Hydras came armed with 2 Hydra autocannons.....

=Checks Codex=

Ahh, yeah you're right. Sorry, for some reason I though Hydra autocannons were Heavy 4. But the point still stands that you can get way more dakka and death out of 3 Hydras then one LR Exterminator.

in terms of pure dakka, yes the Hydra is far better.

What you're paying for with the Exterminator is Armour, a squadron of hydras can be glanced to death by small arms fire to the sides and rear, the same can't be said for the LR chassis, and likewise you need to cost in the extra guardsmen with which you're babysitting them.

I'm not suggesting the Hydra is in anyway bad, or that the Exterminator is a good choice, just that their points costs are relative to more than just the amount of shots they put out.

THat is also very true, but note that the Hydra is also far far cheaper, and while a LR Exterminator can be killed with one lucky shot, or completely silenced by glancing it to death, the Hydras really have strength in numbers. For every lascannon shot, sure there's a higher chance it will die, but if one dies or is glanced, there's still several more to keep pumping out dakka.

But yes, good point, and if the LR Executioner was only say...100 points or so, then it would be the zomg must have unit. Unfortunately, the points cost is just way too much to justify with extra armor.