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So I've started a pretty decent thread it seems on Nidz and their tactics and I have a question for you guys:

If you have a squad of 2 Carnifexes and 2 Primes (Equipped Identically) join the squad. How many wound groups is this? Is it 2 (i.e. the identical primes count as a single group even though they are IC's joining a unit) or is it 3?

Hulksmash wrote:So I've started a pretty decent thread it seems on Nidz and their tactics and I have a question for you guys:

If you have a squad of 2 Carnifexes and 2 Primes (Equipped Identically) join the squad. How many wound groups is this? Is it 2 (i.e. the identical primes count as a single group even though they are IC's joining a unit) or is it 3?

If they are identically equipped, they count as the same wound group.

It would be 2 wound groups since there are no differentiating characteristics between the primes. If one prime had even slightly different upgrades, however, it would then be 3 wound groups.

The wound groups are divided by unit as well, however.

So they do not need to be different.

I was referencing responses from:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319461.page

as well which is essentially the same question but for SM.

Edit: I might be interpreting your response wrong Kirsanth, from it I am under the impression you would treat them as 3 groups regardless of equipment

Wouldn't it be two groups for shooting and three groups for close combat? That is my call on it barring any special rule I don't know about Tyranid Primes.

Correct.

The rules relate to units of identical models, page 25.

"The player must allocate one wound to each model in the target unit."

"Having allocated the wounds, all of the models in the unit that are identical in gaming terms".

ICs are treated as seperate units for CC.

It seems like they would need to be separately equipped when joined to the same unit because of the following points.
I have not found anything that would conflict with either of these points in the Main Rule Book.

In the character section it lays out that the character becomes part of the unit, not a separate unit along-side.
› (Wh40k5.MRB, pg49, §1 ¶1):
›"Independent characters that have joined a unit are considered part of that unit... If the unit they have joined is hit, the controlling player can choose to allocate hits against the characters just like the other members of the unit."

This part describes how to differentiate between models in the unit.
› (Wh40k5.MRB, pg25, §1 ¶1):
› "... identical in gaming terms... By this we mean they have the same profile of characteristics, the same special rules and the same weapons and wargear."
The remainder of the section goes on to describe how to allocate wounds to units with multiple model types.

That was how I read it too Bel, they are the same unit once they are joined to a unit for the purposes of wound allocation.

For them to be otherwise would require some argument about units remaining individual units while joined to other units...but I guess it really depends how you read the 'unit' statement.

I generally read it the other Calypso2ts but I'm cool with it the other way. I'll just give the guy dual boneswords and save 5pts. Just curious as it came up in the Tactica thread

Brother Ramses wrote:Wouldn't it be two groups for shooting and three groups for close combat? That is my call on it barring any special rule I don't know about Tyranid Primes.

To clarify, this is what I meant as correct--as I read it.

I had originally read it as being 3 groups all the time, but that is not really founded in the text--IC are treated as any other member of the unit for shooting.

More reading.

Yep.

3 units when in CC, as usual for ICs and units.

When shooting IF identically equipped they are 2 wound groups for allocation purposes. This is because the unit is a SINGLE unit for targetting (my, thats familiar sounding) purposes and the ICs "are identical in game terms"

Being an IC doesnt stop you being identical in game terms

No GW still hasn't figured out how stupid it is and they can't be in Myectic Spores yet- oh wait.

Yeah my thought process is what has been outlined here a few times. 2 for shooting, 3 for assault with all the IC stuff about targeting and base-to-base and all that good stuff.

I've been playing this game for seven years and it still surprises me how complicated and difficult the details are in some areas of the rules.