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When ever I send part of my ork force out to the side to make a flanking move.
My Opponent always sees my plan (since it's a table with a bird's eye view to the players) And so my opponent send out a part of his force to meet my flanking force.
Is it better to not make any flanking moves and just meet head on to my Opponent's force???

And my Opponents don't like it when I fall back when his models get close into combat. Well I am not going to let my guys get tore to shreds!!
Is it cheating when you back up when the opponent gets close??

It's like a feint isn't it?
Sending some of your men to flank and then puling back to draw them out further.
It's not cheating but it is a decent tactic if it works since it splits his troops up.

the main point of sending people up the flanks is to make your opponent nervous about his flank. maybe sending a unit or 2 to deal with the threat.


the best way to get flank charges in is to flee with one unit and draw the enemy unit forward, allowing you to get a charge in.


another way is the angle, to about 45 degrees, all your units after movement and allow him to charge you.

if your units are in a Wedge formation with 1 units at the front facing forward and each unit to the side facing out at an angle.

this forces him to align to your units, exposing his flank to your units further down the line.

Orks.....

Should not be splitting their forces up. You're a SLEDGEHAMMER, not a scalpel!

Also, what you do with the rest of your forces will help determine how successful your outflankers are. For example, if you deploy in a very spread out fashion, I've noticed over the years that it will tend to cause your opponents to also spread out, making them easier targets for outflankers. Also, if your opponent is reacting to your movement, you can get them to react closer towards board edges, etc.

As for backing up so you take less damage, I'm pretty sure that's one of the whole points of tactics in the movement phase. If you consider "tactics" cheating, then yes, it's "cheating"....

Dashofpepper wrote:Orks.....

Should not be splitting their forces up. You're a SLEDGEHAMMER, not a scalpel!

I can only surmise what Mad Dok Grotsnik uses as a scalpel...perhaps a Gargant?

Dashofpepper
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Orks.....

Should not be splitting their forces up. You're a SLEDGEHAMMER, not a scalpel!

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I agree do not spilt up orc forces, concentrate on your opponents strongest unit and hit it with everything you have. Charge everything toward that single goal and overrun them with shear numbers. I dont think orcs get many deep striking units but if you have them use them as a distraction force or a hard hitting force depending on the tacitics of the opponent. Maybe try a double flanking called "Horns of the Bull" your main force will go up the middle while 2 smaller forces distract of attack from each flanking side to surround the enemy and crush him.

Are you talking about OUTFLANKING via the special rule, or just hitting the flank on the table?

This is futuristic warfare. It is incredibly mobile, information is everywhere. Flank attacks are not that devastating. Not to mention, with the bird's-eye view the other players have, it's incredibly easy just to move and react to a "flank assaut".

The rules of 40k really don't encourage you to do this at all. Maybe you'll be hitting side vehicle armor, but if you move your most dangerous AT to the enemy flank, they'll simply turn to face you.

Futuristic warfare is more complicated than "he who flanks wins". If you want to play like that, I'd recommend fantasy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warboss Narznok wrote:When ever I send part of my ork force out to the side to make a flanking move.
My Opponent always sees my plan (since it's a table with a bird's eye view to the players) And so my opponent send out a part of his force to meet my flanking force.
Is it better to not make any flanking moves and just meet head on to my Opponent's force???

And my Opponents don't like it when I fall back when his models get close into combat. Well I am not going to let my guys get tore to shreds!!
Is it cheating when you back up when the opponent gets close??

What? No of course it's not cheating to not help your opponent win the game.

I think you need to read the rulebook. There are no rules that say you must RAWR push your models forward at all times.

eNvY wrote:
Futuristic warfare is more complicated than "he who flanks wins". If you want to play like that, I'd recommend fantasy.

You'll find that Fantasy Warfare is more complicated than"he who flanks wins"

Dashofpepper wrote:Orks.....

Should not be splitting their forces up. You're a SLEDGEHAMMER, not a scalpel!

This.

Hit em hard, hit em often, hit em until shortly after they stop movin. Then take their gunz, teef, and shiny bitz.

Much better to use rokkit and buzzsaw, toting koptas to threaten to outflank, so your opponent bunches his forces at center - where your scaries are.

Eldar do this, Orks pretty much just smash face instead.

To really effectively flank someone you need to be more mobile than they are otherwise they'll just match your movement and make the attempt a waste of time.

Warboss Narznok wrote:And my Opponents don't like it when I fall back when his models get close into combat. Well I am not going to let my guys get tore to shreds!!
Is it cheating when you back up when the opponent gets close??

It's considered dishonorable by some players. But there's nothing wrong with it, it's a legitimate strategy. You opponent is just trying to psych you out, don't let his complaints bother you.

So I should put all my orks in one huge mass and charge forward??

The only flanking it's really possible to do in 40K is more like concentrating on a flank.

Say for example you're fighting against one of those giant ork horde players who deploys his infantry stretched out in a long line. If you're deploying second, you can go all to one side. Now when you hit his lines, all those boyz on the side you deployed away from are maybe 18-24", maybe even 30" away from the action. So while they're slogging across the long axis of the table, effectively out of the fight, you can have your whole army fighting just part of his. By the time they arrive, you've hopefully finished off the part of the army you were fighting and still outnumber him.

It also works pretty well against certain tyranid builds--the ones that try to have a wall of little bugs screening a bunch of big bugs. You concentrate on one flank, and can do serious damage before the big bugs on the other side of the table reach you.

You don't need to be particularly more mobile to pull this off, but your opponent needs to be non-mobile (i.e. dismounted infantry) for it to work well. Sometimes you can create the situation against a mech army by popping transports and stranding guys in a spot away from where you're attacking.

As mentioned, Eldar are really good at this. When things go right, they can hit a part of a larger force with really concentrated assaults, kill everything in the area, and then run away before the counterattack arrives.

If you're playing foot orks, you probably mostly want to avoid having this done to you by concentrating in the middle of the board (as much as you can concentrate without risking excessive template casualties).

Warboss Narznok wrote:So I should put all my orks in one huge mass and charge forward??

Yes!


Green Tide works.

180 boys charging forward will smash em good

Grey Templar wrote:

Warboss Narznok wrote:So I should put all my orks in one huge mass and charge forward??

Yes!


Green Tide works.

180 boys charging forward will smash em good

if the table is 72" wide, and the models bases are about 1" wide... your gonna be spread across the table, and your gonna have units on the flanks. Even if you charge forward in one huge mass, a huge mass has a defined area, and a direction it is going in, therefore, a pair of flanks

What works good on flanks? Trukks, bikes, fast stuffz. If the enemy is trying to flank you, these units can quickly attend the threat. If you are doing a sledgehammer style blow (as Dash said, orks ARE a sledgehammer), they can quickly forwards/centrally to join the head of the hammer. Since not every army deploys in a blob, the enemy will be split up at some point. The fast stuff lets you nip out of your hammer and say tie up that squad of long fangs in the building on the far left, or a basilisk sitting behind a hill shelling you, or that Vyper squadron pouring scatterlasers into the flanks of your battlewagon. Part of the power maneuverability is that I can threaten things to my left that are far away, but I can also threaten things to my right that are far away

Flavius Infernus wrote:The only flanking it's really possible to do in 40K is more like concentrating on a flank.

Say for example you're fighting against one of those giant ork horde players who deploys his infantry stretched out in a long line. If you're deploying second, you can go all to one side. Now when you hit his lines, all those boyz on the side you deployed away from are maybe 18-24", maybe even 30" away from the action. So while they're slogging across the long axis of the table, effectively out of the fight, you can have your whole army fighting just part of his. By the time they arrive, you've hopefully finished off the part of the army you were fighting and still outnumber him.

It also works pretty well against certain tyranid builds--the ones that try to have a wall of little bugs screening a bunch of big bugs. You concentrate on one flank, and can do serious damage before the big bugs on the other side of the table reach you.

You don't need to be particularly more mobile to pull this off, but your opponent needs to be non-mobile (i.e. dismounted infantry) for it to work well. Sometimes you can create the situation against a mech army by popping transports and stranding guys in a spot away from where you're attacking.

As mentioned, Eldar are really good at this. When things go right, they can hit a part of a larger force with really concentrated assaults, kill everything in the area, and then run away before the counterattack arrives.

If you're playing foot orks, you probably mostly want to avoid having this done to you by concentrating in the middle of the board (as much as you can concentrate without risking excessive template casualties).

The situation you describe above is exactly what happened to me at Da Grand Waaagh! GT in Alameda CA. The mission was a modified spearhead which required that all non-deepstriking, non-outflanking units be on the board on Turn One; that is, no units (but the aforesaid mentioned) may be in reserve. The center was occupied by a very large mountain, the peak of which was accessible only on one side, the side I did not have ready access to. I brought along a shooty Ork army of some 250 models. I bordered my deployment with a grot screen. On the short flank, I put one loota squad, one shoota squad, one zzap barrage; along the long flank, I put the two lootas, two shootas, two barrages. The fully mechanized Space Marines raced against my short flank, while my right flank tried to race to his unoccupied base. He blasted a huge hole right into the short flank, where the fire power was half the long flank, and would have wheeled right up my rear hadn't the game ended.

There are flanks in 40k, both to armies and to units. The flanks in armies are defined by board edges and furthest flung units parallel to your own board edge. Similarly units have flanks defined as the sides of a unit that are not the front, and the front is the closest part of the unit to the enemy's board edge. Fearless units don't have flanks at all.

When assaulting a unit, a flank charge has the following advantage to charging the unit in the front: units within 6" of an enemy unit cannot regroup. Therefore a flank charge, if it causes the defending unit to fail a morale test, will bugger up a player's ability to recover a unit and throw it back into combat. If you can break a unit in your own player turn assault phase, then by the end of your opponent's movement phase the unit will have moved 4D6" back towards their own board edge. Additionally flank and rear charges free up the front of the unit for other units to assault, and perhaps increase your likelihood of winning the assault.

There are two ways of accomplishing a devastating flank charge, and both ways require two units. The first way requires either an isolated enemy unit, or an enemy unit on the flank of its army. Your two units approach from the front, but instead of stopping in front of the enemy unit to prepare a charge, one unit moves slightly past the enemy unit, so the charge comes in at an angle to the original direction of movement in the movement and shooting phases. The shape described can be likened to that of a hockey stick. Bikes and Jump Infantry are obviously better at this than Infantry.

The other way is to have units move in from different angles in the movement and shooting phases. This will be more successful than the first way if a unit has other units guarding its flanks so you will have to involve yourself in a multi-charge, and puts your units no closer to preventing individual units from regrouping and heading back into combat if they fall back but your units remain locked while their counter-assault units come to bear.

Something to mention about flank assaults is that sometimes it's if one unit will already overwhelm the enemy unit, then the flanking unit will do better to interpose as much of itself as it can between the enemy unit and its own board edge, so that if it attempts to fall back it will be trapped and wiped out. Plus it means that you can unreservedly shoot the enemy unit without worry of strategic casualty removal because you're not going to charge anyways.

Hit em hard, hit em often, hit em until shortly after they stop movin. Then take their gunz, teef, and shiny bitz.

LOL Ork tactics at its finest

Warbikes, Warbuggies, Deffkoptas and Kommandos are your flanking units...

Deep striking stormboyz can be very effective also.....

Get the boyz forward to deal death or die trying as quickly as possible.......

However a battlewagon full of Boyz sent down the flank as a feint will draw enemy fire and forces towards you.....

SpankHammer III wrote:

Hit em hard, hit em often, hit em until shortly after they stop movin. Then take their gunz, teef, and shiny bitz.

LOL Ork tactics at its finest

the crazy thing is this works without much more "plannin" 6/10s of the time.

yeah it does,

The most advanced ork tactic I've face was where to stick the KFF and then it was forced down my throat.

Before anyone jumps on me yes I know orks can use tactics more advanced than the force feeding of boyz

SpankHammer III wrote:yeah it does,

The most advanced ork tactic I've face was where to stick the KFF and then it was forced down my throat.

Before anyone jumps on me yes I know orks can use tactics more advanced than the force feeding of boyz

Taktiks is for panzies

jushst run up and stomp em good.

Taktiks is for panzies

jushst run up and stomp em good.

QFT

reminds me of the ork short in Fear the Alien.