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So I've had a bit of an idea for a Skirmishy wargame what I don't think has been done yet, namely a kind of Space Pirate game, also involving the souping up of your ship as well as your crew.

The rules bit seems pretty straight forward, just work on a basic system, and playtest it to buggery. But sadly, that is where my less than formidable skills end. I cannot sculpt, and I cannot draw. Now many of my friends can, so I hope to be able to rope them in.

But how do you get this sort of thing published and stocked? Where would I get the models cast up etc? I'd really like to unleash my own creation upon the world. I know it won't make me a millionaire, but I just want to do it regardless. Advice?

http://cart.themouldmaker.com/index.php?p=page&page_id=Services these are the sorts of people who can help with the models, they do Mantics range.

The idea of a skirmishy wargame might not be enough though to tempt lenders, I am assuming you don't have 400K+ startup fees?

You'll need to be able to show that you know costs of almost everything before they even consider your plan.

Firstly you need a business strategy, things like advertising, R&D, playtesting, artwork, packaging, printing distribution, publications, staff, supply infrastructure, sales structure, market research all needs to be considered and can take a long time to put a portfolio together before a single model gets made. Banks don't care what a model looks like they need to know that you know how to make a business.

Roping in friends to sculpt is terrible for your future as your wishes might not be one of your friends, who will quickly become ex friends, they also need to be really good at sculpting, not just knocking up a conversion with green stuff and half an Ork, so you'll need to hire sculptors.

Even playtesting is best done by other people after your initial rules framework has been set, not yourselves, they will not know your intentions and not know what you mean so are completely open. Mantics beta, for example, let loose a small rules set which then has had thousands of people's input.

First - find a small business advisor. Good luck

You can self-publish on the Internet.

There are small merchant solutions which are used by sites who offer their games as PDFs. I don't know any detail of the requirements for setting one of those up, so check into it by visiting some of those sites and following the links back to the merchanting system companies.

You can publish paper books on demand through the Lulu.com system. Again I am sure that Lulu will be able to inform you about the costs involved.

It is a much smaller risk to publish just the rules, which only cost you time, than to start making miniatures too.

Is you want to make miniatures, there are companies which sculpt and mould miniatures on a commission basis -- I mean, you commission them to sculpt and make the mould, then you can have short runs done to order. Ask some of the small UK based companies such as Heretic or Hasslefree how they do their production.

Groovy.

Think I will kick off just doing rules, see how that goes. I'd love to make a living out of it, but I'm more concerned with just writing an ace game that gets people playing!

Keep in mind mate you have to publish it to feth anywhere and everywhere and make sure it sells.
While it seems great at the time, you really need it to take off well or you end up in the red £££ wise.

However, if your serious about this, PM me as much as you can detail wise on models (how they look, weapons, ship size, ship details, everything you can)
I tend to draw alot in my spare time, so i wouldnt mind helping you out.
Also, if you like those i can sculpt them up too after that.

All i'd require for doing such a thing is the credit. (just my name on said pics / sculpts)

Will have to have a wee think about scale.

Very tempted by 54mm, but like Inquisitor, that usually brings up the problem of suitable terrain as well, so most likely 28mm intentions.


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Will have to have a wee think about scale.

Very tempted by 54mm, but like Inquisitor, that usually brings up the problem of suitable terrain as well, so most likely 28mm intentions.

Also, keep in mind that dakka is fully of people with far too much knowledge
So, playtesting the game could be made easier by posting general rules on here.

Atleast that way you can get feedback from people who arent involved in the project.


TBH, 28mm is a decent size.
Seems pretty universal in its preference.
Also, would that be normal, or heroic?

Starting with rules is the way to go if you want to start of small scale. Making rules takes time and effort, making models takes time, effort and a lot of money. There are already models for pretty much anything you can think anyway.

I am midway through coming up with my own game (it takes a long time) and I've found that if you take the time it's possible to do a lot of things yourself. Playtesting takes a lot of time but is worth it.

I also recommend looking at other small games. Being honest your not going to produce a game that rivals GW overnight. Looking at what otehrs have produced gives you a good idea about the quality you should aim for, great artwork draw by proffesionals is good but many games don't have any artwork or use basic pictures.

Once you've made the rules I recomend contacting some miniature producing companies. If they like your rules they may allow you to include photographs of your game using their models, it's easy advertising for them and improves the look of your game a lot. Having examples of what models can be used also encourages people to buy, exeryone likes having multiple options. Most games (even those with dedicated miniatures) encourage using any models people like. There may be reasons people don't like your models (aesthetic, cost, ect...) but you can still try and sell them your rules.

Anyway hope this helped and goodluck.

What you need to decide is if you want to make something cool to mess around with or if you want to try to make some money at it, and how much. If you want to make a game as a hobby, this is the right place to ask. If you want to make money at it, getting the rules sorted out is the least important part.

If you want to try to make significant money, the best thing to do is stop playing with the rules right now, and hit the library for some books on how to run a business. You'll want to understand basic accounting (you need to actually make a profit, not just have money come in), marketing (you need to sell this stuff to people and figure out who to sell to), contracts (screwing up an agreement can cost a ton of money), and IP law (you don't want to accidentally give away the rights to your game or name). Once you've got an understanding of that, come up with a business plan for how you plan to develop the business over the next few years. Forget making a living from your game right off the bat, if you're starting a new business you generally want to have enough money to run for about 2 years with zero profits. If it's your full-time job, that includes your living expenses. If you don't have that kind of capital, start looking into loans or investors.

That may sound like a lot of work, but if you don't do it you're not going to make any real money and will probably lose some unless you're really super lucky. Running a business is hard work, and trying to run a business without understanding how the rules of the business work is a really good way to end up bankrupt.

See if you can find a copy of Wyrd Miniatures Ezine #1. (the link I have from Feb 08 is busted) The magazine contains an interview with the owner. There are a lot of similarities with your project - small lots of character quality figures in a sub genera theme. From what I remember, the owner contracts out everything (sculpting, casting, art) and focuses on the management of the product.

As for creating figures. Expect to spend $300-$500 on a quality 28mm sculpt. Then add in a $150 master mold, a $150 production mold and $1-$1.50 per fig for metal. Generally your sculptor and caster will be two different people - ask around on TMP or the yahoo sculpting list for recommendations.

What I'm doing for the game I'm developing is starting it as a "hobby" on the side, intending to grow it slowly over time. I've been learning about the businessy stuff on the side over the last few years. First as a restaurant idea, then a game store, both I decided I didn't want to invest in because the cost and the fact that I can't afford to pay myself or live on less than minimum wage for the time it takes for my store to start making a profit.

I'm starting out writing the rules and adapting them from an RPG I wrote about 15 years ago that I never did anything with. I posted on some news sites that I was looking for playtesters for the game, what I was really looking for is opinions on if the rules & game sucked or not. Now I have an online community slowly forming and have gotten a lot of helpful emails and posts from people who have read the rules and tested the game. I'm gonna be finishing a whole new version of the rules probably this week.

I have cash set aside for sculpting & producing models, but I don't expect to have this done for several months. I want to get the rules done first, and I provide links on my site to places where people can find models that are already out there. It will start out as a free PDF people can download, later on I'll introduce a "print quality" pdf that's full color and loaded with photos and artwork and all that stuff, that I will sell for a pretty cheap price and set up a direct print on demand service with an online provider for folks that want a printed rulebook. Then I'll start out getting maybe 5 models sculpted as a starter pack, a little while later sell them individually in blisters too and any profits I make at first will go right back to sculptors to sculpt more models and hopefully expand the line by 1-2 models per month.

Anyway.. what I'm babbling about is you don't need a ton of cash up front, just take it slowly 1 step at a time. Like someone else said educate yourself on how to run a business if you hope to ever make money. If you want some links to some sculptors or casting companies PM me and I can send you to the ones I've been talking to

Mr Mystery wrote:Will have to have a wee think about scale.

Very tempted by 54mm, but like Inquisitor, that usually brings up the problem of suitable terrain as well, so most likely 28mm intentions.


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Will have to have a wee think about scale.

Very tempted by 54mm, but like Inquisitor, that usually brings up the problem of suitable terrain as well, so most likely 28mm intentions.

Do 28mm. There are heaps of nice character figures all over the place.

But it takes more than "less than formidable skills" in rules making to create a new and economically successful wargame.
Otherwise with a dozen new rule sets per year, GW wouldn't dominate the scene so much.