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Stun Grenades - 5 pts per model

Stun grenades are cluster bombs that send out stunning shockwaves when explode. Throwed into the enemy ranks before conducting assault, stun grenades can effecitively render the enemy disoriented or even unconscious, left to be slaughtered by the charging space marines/ Imperial guards.

The WS and Ld of enemy unit assaulted by unit equiped with stun grenades are reduced to half. After making a stun grenade attack, the assaulting unit count as attacking with an Initiative of 10. One model per unit may replace his CCW or bolt pistol with stun grenade. It can only be used once per model per game. Declare to use it at the beginning of the assault phase.

Smoke Grenades - 5 pts per model

Mini-version of smoke launchers used on Space Marine vehicles, smoke grenades are first used in the Damocles Gulf Crusades against the Tau fire caste expertised in ranged-warfare. Since being deployed, smoke grenades have saved thousands of daring Astartes and millions of Imperial personals from the touch of death.

Used after the movement phase, the smoke grenades give the user's squad a 4+ Cover Save. The squad can't shoot that turn, but can still use the shooting phase to run. Smoke grenades can only be purchased by models who have access to melta bombs. It can only be used once per model per game.



So what do you think?

Stun Grenades are awesome!!! It's like "5 pt upgrade, auto-kill a unit you are charging"!

Yeah... you need to either tone it down quite a bit, or make it cost 5 to 10 times as much. Cutting a Ld in half is just devastating for any non-fearless unit.

Stun Grenades are definitely overpowered.

and is there really a reason to buy the grenade for more than one model in the group? Do you NEED to buy it for all of them?

and Smoke Grenades seem kinda... overpowered also? In certain cases...

But also overpriced in other cases...

Meh, whatever, they're good ideas but would be MUCH better suited for Skirmish games than 40k.

Stun doesnt seem that overpowered to me. Mainly because it can only be used once per model per game.

Grakmar wrote:Yeah... you need to either tone it down quite a bit, or make it cost 5 to 10 times as much. Cutting a Ld in half is just devastating for any non-fearless unit.

Um so shall we make it the "special issue" like some of the gears in Tau arsenal do?

And I don't think stun grenades are that overpowered. Mark that it can only equip by models have access to melta bomb and can be used only once per game per model.

My original concept is to use this to counter some of the "Death-Star" unit in the game.

grayspark wrote:and is there really a reason to buy the grenade for more than one model in the group? Do you NEED to buy it for all of them?

and Smoke Grenades seem kinda... overpowered also? In certain cases...
But also overpriced in other cases...

Well, some could see the reason to buy more than one. I prefer buy once for one group though. No you don't need to buy it for all of them. And since in the description it "can only be purchased by models who have access to melta bombs", it actually ONLY grants access to ONE model in the unit in most cases.

Care to lay out the certain cases for discussion? I really want these two added in my homerule and so I really want these two to be balanced in the game... Thanks!

They're nifty ideas (surprised? ) and I'd definitely use them. The stun grenades are definitely inordinately powerful. IMHO they should not affect vehicles, just based on the principle that all but the most complex and ancient weapons are either anti-infantry or anti-vehicular but not both.

ryanstartalker wrote:Um so shall we make it the "special issue" like some of the gears in Tau arsenal do?

Here is what I would do to balance them. Instead of making them a "bolt-on" option like melta bombs or locator beacons, I would add them to the "may replace chainsword or bolt pistol with:" list. This way, they let you cheaply carry out one heck of an assault, but to do so you have to sacrifice another weapon with a more long-term use, such as a pistol that would give you extra attacks, or a storm shield to boost your invulnerable save. Anyways, this is one idea.

I inspired your smoke grenades. don't lie. I've already given rules for them.

as for your idea:

so... a marine with a stun grenade suddenly hits another marine on a 3+? serious?
And why is leadership effected...

stun grenades are easy:
when assaulting, stung grenades provide a chance for the squad to get in and strike, before being hit.

this weapon reduces the opponents initiative to that equal to the initiative of the highest unmodified amount for initiative.

example:
Spehs marheens are assaulted by gahd. spehs marheens are reduced to I3.

Smoke grenade: on trooper can elect to throw a grenade before shooting. if so, the squad gets an obscured [note not cover.] of 5+. this save is impossible to deter, save for flame template weapons [where it wouldn't be possible to obscure.]

Solon:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/320215.page

Notice the timestamp being BEFORE yours.

Hi folks.
If we are to re-introduce grenades 'properly'.
I think we should re-write rules to allow then to be thrown, at model Str X2".ALL grnades count as assault weapons.

And give one effect PER unit , not per model.

Eg
When a UNIT decalres a grenade attack instead of normal shooting , it causes ONE AREA of effect , determined by the following.

Area of effect. 3" template (unit throws 10 or less grenades)OR 5" template( unit thows more than 10 grenades.)

Frag Str 3 Ap 6 .

Krak Str 6 AP 4 .

Plasma str 4 AP 5 .

Smoke , 5+ cover save through template.

Blind/Photon , 4 + cover save through template.

Haluconogen, target unit MUST pass a LD check or HALVE initiative.

Haywire, target VEHICLE must roll under AV value on 3 D6 or count as shaken.

(Ill NOT use virus and vortex due to bad 2nd ed experiances.... )

Just a starting point , what do you think?

TTFN

MekanobSamael wrote:IMHO they should not affect vehicles, just based on the principle that all but the most complex and ancient weapons are either anti-infantry or anti-vehicular but not both.
Instead of making them a "bolt-on" option like melta bombs or locator beacons, I would add them to the "may replace chainsword or bolt pistol with:" list. This way, they let you cheaply carry out one heck of an assault, but to do so you have to sacrifice another weapon with a more long-term use, such as a pistol that would give you extra attacks, or a storm shield to boost your invulnerable save. Anyways, this is one idea.

Thanks Samael! Really helpful insight.

Considering the devastating effect stun grenades could have on the infantry squads, yeah, the effect-on-vehicles is off! Just say that it's too stunning an idea for soldiers in 40k to climb the top of a mighty fire-breathing tank.

Yeah the "may replace chainsword or bolt pistol with:" list opens a whole new world actually... Make it all the more debatable whether to take the common choices or take a once-per-game chance to kill a Death Star unit... Um. Advice taken!

Captain Solon wrote:I inspired your smoke grenades. don't lie. I've already given rules for them.

Sorry dude, it seems our ideas are in the same time window, but as the_ferrett pointed out, mine is several minutes earlier than yours. But don't worry, we don't have to argue about copyright; just that "great minds think alike"

I understand your version of "obscured 5+" smoke grenades. Legacy of vehicular smoke launchers. Yet not sure about that "impossible to deter" though... A bit overpowered I guess, remind me about why Tau has that marklight+seeker missile combination.

Captain Solon wrote:so... a marine with a stun grenade suddenly hits another marine on a 3+? serious?
And why is leadership effected...

stun grenades are easy:
when assaulting, stung grenades provide a chance for the squad to get in and strike, before being hit.

this weapon reduces the opponents initiative to that equal to the initiative of the highest unmodified amount for initiative.

Among the confusion and chaos raised by the blinding flash and stunning shockwaves, the blurring-visioned disoriented marine is nothing more than a mighty bulk of armor. Even a sword master can't hit a thing with his temporarily disabled senses. So yeah, I am serious about reducing the WS to half.

And about Ld. Wouldn't one in such a disadvantageous situation and bad shape be smart enough to relocate, or more plainly, flee?

Your version of stun grenades is viable (as compared to the common frag grenades and so on), but unfortunately don't suit my original aim: To create a equivalence for melta bomb, aiming to counter a Death-Star unit with a unit that previous has no hope to survive.

the_ferrett:

Thanks!

Lanrak:

I don't think to recategorize grenades into "assault, blast" is a viable idea in certain cases.

e.g. According to your stats, using Krak grenades against infantry would definitely achieve more wounds than using Frag, right? but is it a relevent scenario, consider that Krak grenades are anti-vehicular weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stun grenades rule updated.