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Just had a battle using my Daemons against a friend's battlewagon ork army (with some proxies).


CHAOS DAEMONS (mine)
Kairos Fateweaver
Masque
Skulltaker - Juggernaut

7x Bloodcrushers - Icon (Skulltaker here)
3x Flamers
3x Flamers

19x Bloodletters - Icon
18x Daemonettes - Icon
10x Plaguebearers

Daemon Prince - Iron Hide, Mark of Tzeentch, Unholy Might, Wings
Daemon Prince - Iron Hide, Mark of Tzeentch, Unholy Might, Wings
Daemon Prince - Iron Hide, Mark of Tzeentch, Unholy Might, Wings



ORKS
Ghazghkull Thraka
Mad Doc Grotsnik

10x Lootas
9x Lootas
7x Meganobs - All cybork bodies, 3x Combi-skorchas (Grotsnik here)
Battlewagon - Deff-rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggas, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota

7x Meganobs - All cybork bodies, 3x Combi-skorchas (Ghazghkull here)
Battlewagon - Deff-rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggas, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota
20x Ork Boyz - Bosspole, Nob, 'Eavy Armor, Power Klaw
20x Ork Boyz - Bosspole, Nob, 'Eavy Armor, Power Klaw
20x Ork Boyz - Bosspole, Nob, 'Eavy Armor, Power Klaw
10x Grots - 1x Runtherd

Battlewagon - Deff-rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggas, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota
Battlewagon - Deff-rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggas, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota
Battlewagon - Deff-rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggas, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota


Who is going to beat the living tar out of whom? Let me know what you guys think.

Have to go with the Orks on this one. No 'ood' way to blow transports, IH with MoT on princes is a tough one and not enough troops for objectives from the Daemon side.

I think those Lootas are going to be brutal too.

Your demons have a lot of deathstar units. It'll be interesting to see how the small amount of elites vs the big horde pans out here.

I have no Idea. It's elite vs horde. To me, it seems that it can go either way.

eek both crap lists lol. mad doc? for real? the masque? also for real?

also 300 point DP are not the greatest investment. DP are great.....but not tooled up like you have. You basically combined the fighty and shooting build into one, its kinda one or the other though.

Im not sure the daemons can handle 60 boys. Tough call

Mafty wrote:eek both crap lists lol. mad doc? for real? the masque? also for real?

Yeah, they're both not very balanced lists. My daemons is more of my "fun" army.

Mafty wrote:
also 300 point DP are not the greatest investment. DP are great.....but not tooled up like you have. You basically combined the fighty and shooting build into one, its kinda one or the other though.

Im not sure the daemons can handle 60 boys. Tough call

The DP's are only 215pts each. Still expensive, but at 2500, they're a lot more survivable than soul grinders, especially when buffed up by Fateweaver. And I would say my build is just fighty, not shooty.

Daemons can easily handle 60 boys...if they can get the charge off.


Onto the battle.....


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Pre-game Analysis:

Daemons:
Really rather simple. Everyone needs to get within Fateweaver's 6" bubble. Avoid the lootas and kill, kill, kill... Will use the daemonettes and bloodcrushers as the initial screen to absorb his charges (and he will get the charge) and pray they hold out until support comes in. The lootas are going to be a pain, but his real danger is from his charge....something I'm just not going to be able to avoid.

Annihilation and capture and control will suit me just fine. Seize ground will be a problem as I only have 3 scoring units while he has 5 as well as the mobility to move them around quickly. Naturally, I would want to go second.

It's going to be a tough fight.


Orks:
Fire for maybe 1-2 turns with the lootas before going in for the kill. He needs a coordinated assault. Assaulting with 1-2 units won't work. He needs to assault with his entire army simultaneously. And he will get the charge off with a 28" charge range...there's just no way I can avoid it.

Annihilation and C&C, we are about even, though with him being able to get the charge off, he has a slight advantage. He also has the advantage in Seize Ground with more troops and better mobility.


Mission: Annihilation
Deployment: Spearhead
Initiative: Daemons win and gives 1st turn to the orks.


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Deployment:
There is a large crater in the middle, a large impassable hill on the middle-right, and some type of area terrain (low) in just about each of the 6 sectors of the map.

Orks choose the lower-right corner where there is a tower where he can place his lootas. He then deploys 4 battlewagons up front with the Meganobs on the outsides (Ghazghkull on the outer-right and Grotsnik on the outer-left) and 1 more battlewagon just behind Ghazzies' BW. Lootas all bunch up in the tower and grots stay in reserves.

I, of course, deploy nothing.


Ork 1
He just sits and waits.


Daemon 1
I get my prefered wave coming in:

Fateweaver
3x Daemon Princes
Bloodcrushers w/Skulltaker
Daemonettes

I actually come in from the upper-left corner diagonally across and far away from his orks. My plan? Make him come to me and stay out of his lootas' range as his lootas were in the tower near the bottom-right corner. If he wants to fight, he's going to have to come after me. Otherwise, it's going to be a pretty boring draw-fest. Ok, now, let's see who loses this chicken race....heh, heh.

All my guys land without a mishap, though 1 Daemon Prince does take 1W from dangerous terrain, despite his 4++ save. Then they all run towards Kairos' bubble of protection. I'm in pretty good position as if appears that everyone is able to make it.


Ork 2
Battlewagons move forward cautiously (about 12"). He then tries his luck with his lootas. Only 5 lootas are able to see the bloodcrushers and fire. A couple hit and wound, but thanks to Fateweaver, I make all my saves. The other unit of lootas fire at the closest DP (daemon prince) but are about 1" short.


Daemon 2
Both units of flamers and the bloodletters come in, all of them using the bloodcrusher's Icon to land safely without scattering. Bloodletters land to the rear. Now knowing the range of his lootas, I move everything back a little to clear his firing range. If only he had a big blast weapon, he would hit a lot if he were to drop it in the center of my guys. But luckily, he doesn't.

Some units run but no other action yet.


Ork 3
He decides to go for broke and turbos all his battlewagons 13" forwards, disembarking all but the boyz from the rear battlewagon (he didn't think they would make the charge). Uh, oh....I've underestimated his charge range. His lootas move and then run forwards to get in range next turn.

Then Ghazghkull waaaghs! and they all make it into assault, some going over terrain to do so. Grotsnik and meganobs hit my daemonettes, Ghazzy & friends hit my bloodcrushers and the 2 boys in between hit my daemonettes, flamers and bloodcrushers.

My daemonettes kill 4 ork boys, puts 1W on his meganobs and 2W on Grotsnik. He, in turn, wipes out my daemonettes and flamers. Skulltaker...Champion of Khorne, Slayer of Champions, pound-for-pound the single most bad-a$$ mofo in the Daemon army, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS!!!....fluffs his attacks, not killing a single meganob, and then dies gruesomely to a bunch of choppas and power klaws. My bloodcrushers do, however, kill 1 meganob and put 1W on a 2nd meganob before losing 3 of their own and taking 1W to a 4th from power klaws. Wow...my bloodcrushers actually survived!

Orks: 3, Daemons: 0

ouch......lol

Continued.....


Daemon 3
The Masque comes in this turn, using the bloodletter Icon to land safely. Payback time! Bloodletters move towards Ghazzy's meganobs. Fateweaver and daemon princes move towards Grotsnik's meganobs. The 2nd unit of flamers fly towards the middle boys that wiped out the daemonettes and flamers last turn.

Now this is going to hurt....him. The Masque clumps up his ork boyz nice and tight for the flamers. She also does the same to Grotsnik and his meganobs for Fateweaver. 3 temps by the flamers on the boyz hit them 48 times and wipe out all the regular boyz while putting 1W on the nob. Fateweaver's breath of chaos kills 1 meganob and put 1W on another. It is then onto assault.

3 DP's and Fateweaver assault the meganobs whereas the bloodletters multi-charge Ghazzy's meganobs and the ork boyz locked in cc with my bloodcrushers. My DP's kill Grotsnik and 2 meganobs and put 1W on another meganob while only taking 1W in return thanks to Fateweaver's bubble. In the other combat, he kills another 1 bloodcrusher as well as a few bloodletters. For his efforts, my bloodletters wipe out all of his meganobs and some ork boys (I left Ghazzy alone as he had a 2++ Invuln). Combat res kills some more ork boyz and he is down to just a healthy Ghazzy and 4 ork boyz, inlcuding nob.

Orks: 3, Daemons: 2


Ork 4
Orks are in trouble. As his lootas don't have a target that they can see and not locked in combat, they just advance and run. Lone nob moves towards the flamers and battlewagons shift about (mainly away from me). His last squad of ork boyz disembark and prepares to charge the bloodletters locked in back.

No shooting so onto assault. The ork boyz enter the Ghazzy-bloodletter-bloodcrusher-ork boyz melee and the single nob charges the flamers. The flamers knock him down before his nob even gets a chance to swing. He puts 1W on the Icon bloodcrusher and kill 6-7 bloodletters. I wipe out his unit of 4 ork boyz, put 3W on Ghazzy (down to 1W left) and kill some more from the new unit of ork boyz. I win, and No Retreat kills off some more ork boyz, bringing them down to about 10 boyz left.

In the Fateweaver-daemon prince battle, they wipe out the rest of his meganobs.

Orks: 3, Daemons: 5


Daemon 4
Plaguebearers come in. They don't do anything the rest of the game so I won't mention them again (same with the grots). Everyone not in combat go towards his closest battlewagon. Breath of chaos from the flamers and a Bolt of Tzeentch to side armor immobilise and shake the battlewagon. Everyone else just runs, making sure to keep within Fateweaver's bubble.

In assault, I kill Ghazghkull and wipe out the ork boyz without so much as a scratch.

Orks: 3, Daemons: 7


Ork 5
He backpedals his battlewagons. He fires both lootas at the closest DP (that's 30 shots from 1 unit and 18 shots from another if I recall correctly) and only put 1W on him!?!


Daemon 5
Daemons advance. Bloodcrushers + bloodletters explode the immobilized battlewagon, killing 3 bloodletters in the explosion. The DP that his lootas fired at just manages to make it into assault with his other battlewagon. Despite needing 6's to hit, I wreck it.

We go on to Turn 6

Orks: 3, Daemons: 9


Ork 6
He doesn't do much. Lootas get into battlewagons and they all move back.


Daemon 6
I move forwards but am out of range to do anything.

Game ends.

Orks: 3, Daemons: 9


VICTORY TO DAEMONS!!!

Still wondering why he would back pedal his battle wagons with Deff-rollas on them....should have been all up in your business with them.

UbiSwanky2 wrote:Still wondering why he would back pedal his battle wagons with Deff-rollas on them....should have been all up in your business with them.

Because it would've been suicide for his battlewagons. Keep in mind that all my units are fearless and could easily sidestep his trucks. I also cannot be insta-killed because all my guys are eternal warriors. I would also most likely be in Fateweaver's bubble so I get to re-roll all saves against those D6 S10 hits. Then on my turn, I would gang up on the truck and easily wreck it even if I needed 6's to hit it (bloodletters put out a lot of S5 attacks and bloodcrushers S6 on the charge against rear armor 10, not to mention all my monstrous creatures).

Sounds like a great battle, I reckon you lucked out a little with the Masque coming in when she did, really turned the tide there.
Moar skulls kthx

in the ork turn 4 you killed some boys that just charged into your bloodletter/crusher/gazzy combat, you cant assault units that charge you if your already in assault on the turn in which he charges so, technically you couldnt of killed the boys from the fresh unit.

Marushi wrote:Sounds like a great battle, I reckon you lucked out a little with the Masque coming in when she did, really turned the tide there.
Moar skulls kthx

What I really lucked out on is my rolling. I was rolling above average for my saves and re-rolls. The Masque is the daemon version of Lash, only better because she can do it 3 times to 3 different opponents and you can't cancel it with psyhic defense.

thelordoflife wrote:in the ork turn 4 you killed some boys that just charged into your bloodletter/crusher/gazzy combat, you cant assault units that charge you if your already in assault on the turn in which he charges so, technically you couldnt of killed the boys from the fresh unit.

I used to think the same thing as you, that is, if you are currently engaged to a unit in combat and another unit assaults, then you can't attack that new unit. But after "discussing" it in the rules forum (at LO), I'm now convinced that you can. You may find this issue in YMDC.

Aye, I played daemons myself for a bit, never got a chance to try out the Masque. More the fact she's not an IC so I reckoned she'd be a bit vulnerable. Worked a treat for yourself, I'll have to get myself one >

The thing is, put enough threats on the table and the masque will be quickly forgotten, much to the chagrin of the opponent later. Fateweaver is usually public enemy #1. Then everyone concentrates on the bloodcrushers, then daemon princes and then bloodletters. With all those threats, no one has even once taken out the Masque in all the games I've played.

Where is the thread located where you discuss being able to attack units that charge an enemy unit locked in combat?

Also, good win for the Daemons. honestly, I didn't even have to see your list to know that they'd win. I have horrible luck against them (playing Blood Angels Mech and Orks Mech). I think your list would have benefited from some Heralds of Tzneetch.

All you would have to do is deepstrike away from his Lootas, pooch up 12" near his Wagon's side/rear armor, and get that sweet armor 12/armor 10 bolt shot - it's enough to completely wreck it, open topped. My friends take Tri-Herald lists every single time and absolutely wreck all of my Mech. The only real counter is a Big Mek, and getting lucky with coversaves - otherwise, KABOOM!

Magnalon wrote:Where is the thread located where you discuss being able to attack units that charge an enemy unit locked in combat?

Here is one such link. I just did a quick search. There may be more.

Magnalon wrote:
Also, good win for the Daemons. honestly, I didn't even have to see your list to know that they'd win. I have horrible luck against them (playing Blood Angels Mech and Orks Mech). I think your list would have benefited from some Heralds of Tzneetch.

I wasn't as confident as you. I'm in the camp that normally, mech has the advantage. Alas, I don't have any heralds on chariots, but have been considering them.

Heralds with bolts are the bane of pretty much every one of my armies. As I've said, all they have to do is make a non-risky deepstrike around a table corner, possibly into area terrain, and they have a clear path to move 12" and fire four shots (1 bolt, 3 reg shots) at a transport, back armor.

I've never been able to catch them due to their speed and range any game - all I can do is shoot at them with high profile guns (lascannons), and even then they get their invunerable save.

The best part? You have three. You have 15 wounds, and the best counter to Mech the Daemon list can offer. I don't think it's physically possible to destroy all 3 Heralds in a game. I'd consider taking out a Prince and the Plaguebearers (Plaguebearers have been fail every game I've seen them in), and fitting in at least 2 heralds on chariots of tzneetch (and or another squad of Daemonettes).

Edit - isn't the bolt AP1? Against Battle Wagons, all you need is a 3+ to Pen, and a 3+ (+2 for open topped and AP1) to wreck it! That's insane.

In the future, I'll probably remove Masque and Skulltaker to fit in 2 heralds of Tzeentch. I don't normally use Skulltaker anyways. I'll probably keep Fateweaver at 2K and above, though he's a little much for 1.5K or less. You can actually have 4 heralds in a game.

But one thing I find is that even 4 heralds is not enough firepower. Then again, this is coming from someone who has 2 living lightnings, 2 land speeder typhoons, 3 squads of missile launcher long fangs and a whole bunch of melta-toting marines in his Space Wolf army.

I think the ork players list is illegal. the meganobz with mad doc are the only unit that can have cybork bodies. As he only allows 1 unit to get the upgrade at 5 pts a model. And the list shows 2 units of them with it. But it could be a possible copy paste error


Automatically Appended Next Post:

thelordoflife wrote:in the ork turn 4 you killed some boys that just charged into your bloodletter/crusher/gazzy combat, you cant assault units that charge you if your already in assault on the turn in which he charges so, technically you couldnt of killed the boys from the fresh unit.

This rule has been changed in a FAQ of the actually rulebook.

italiaplaya wrote:I think the ork players list is illegal. the meganobz with mad doc are the only unit that can have cybork bodies. As he only allows 1 unit to get the upgrade at 5 pts a model. And the list shows 2 units of them with it. But it could be a possible copy paste error

No, there is no restriction with the Mad Doc. There is with Ghazzy & warboss (1 nobs) or Bik Mek (1 deff dread), the Mad Doc allows any unit in the army to upgrade.

Edit - isn't the bolt AP1? Against Battle Wagons, all you need is a 3+ to Pen, and a 3+ (+2 for open topped and AP1) to wreck it! That's insane.

Its not as easy to get back armor as you make it out to be. With good positioning, 12" movement still isn't going to get him into your back arc. Just like in the game we played recently, you have to think ahead with mech and where they are facing, and you can minimize this kind of stuff. Even so, 3+ to hit, 3+ to pen (if you let him get back armor), and 3+ to wreck. Assuming they have no cover or KFF, thats a wreck 30% of the time, if they do have KFF, then its 15% of the time. Now if you add in smart positioning, and they are hitting side armor, then its 3+ to hit, 5+ to pen, 3+ to wreck. So 14% without KFF, and a measly 7% with a KFF. Not really that scary. Hell, even if you have crap positioning, if you just keep them next to eachother, that means you have like an 8" wall of 14 armor on the front, and he can't hit the side armor in between. So he has to go to the far outside of that wall to get good angle shots on their side armor. And if you aren't super close to him, then he can't get your rear armor.

I knew Daemons would win that one. Nice job. One good way to counter swarmy orcs is with rerolling failed rolls...so nice inclusion of the Fateweaver.