Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: That's a lot of cash for something that's not too pricey. 9 x $50 USD = $450 for just the dragoons. That's almost the cost of another 2000 point army.
This is why I don't run hardcore dragoon lists. I know that a 9 dragoon list is legit. But I don't want to thrown down 300 bucks for 5 more dragoons.
EDIT: for 1274 points, you can make a beastly powerful STYGIES detachment. But I only own 4 dragoons! And when I went to buy another one the store didn't have any. This list paired with a smash battalion and some guard arti would be legit terrifying.
Still has a Dozer, but is able to spread out to screen too, along with to pairs to help cover other spots, and 15 dudes to plug smaller holes. Cawlstar is here too. This weirdly looks a lot like my old Index lists.
Still has a Dozer, but is able to spread out to screen too, along with to pairs to help cover other spots, and 15 dudes to plug smaller holes. Cawlstar is here too. This weirdly looks a lot like my old Index lists.
Ah yes, 9 dragoons. A list for when you not only hate money, but also yourself
Still has a Dozer, but is able to spread out to screen too, along with to pairs to help cover other spots, and 15 dudes to plug smaller holes. Cawlstar is here too. This weirdly looks a lot like my old Index lists.
Ah yes, 9 dragoons. A list for when you not only hate money, but also yourself
Having recently but 2 of 8 dragoons I purchased, if you are referring to the masochism of assembly then I agree. I would rather assemble a large metal model with multiple parts than the dragoon.
Still has a Dozer, but is able to spread out to screen too, along with to pairs to help cover other spots, and 15 dudes to plug smaller holes. Cawlstar is here too. This weirdly looks a lot like my old Index lists.
Ah yes, 9 dragoons. A list for when you not only hate money, but also yourself
Hey I hate both those things. I already lost 5 but I guess I can always just buy more for my next project!
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
The dragoon's money for points / assembly put me off getting more than 1. I started the first and it's not my favorite build.
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
The sheer amount of work it takes to clean, build, convert, and paint those ing things is why I’m never going to be able to play this army competitively. Not to mention the cost.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
I thought the same at first, but after building my second Dragoon I thought "wow this went much easier". I feel like it's difficult the first time but afterwards it's fine. I had luck because a friend of mine gave me his assembled Dragoon (with a nice little kitbash from WHFB Knights parts) because he stopped AdMech. I'm now currently painting both at the same time and so far it's not been a pain whatsoever.
EDIT: I'd play 2x3 easy because of how good they are. Keep one unit among my lines as a deterrent to enemy DS, and send the other tarpit some stuff like they're so good at. It's 408 pts for 36W of T5 4+/6++ -2 to Hit murderbirds.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/27 05:11:24
I have 4 (2x dragoons, 2x balistarii) and yes, they do get easier every time. But the money to point ratio is atrocious and they're still a pain to build and paint. Also beyond 2 of each I'd have to start converting their legs since both of the units utilise both poses as of now. I also paint in sub-assembly and it's almost funny (but mostly sad) that means like 18 parts with these models. Also also, why is one of the cables unattached to the gimps leg so I have to glue it on myself?
Wulfey wrote: In my experience, I have run 30-50 man guard screens. They still all die. People bring bolters now because they expect chaff. And when it comes to admech screens, if it aint STYGIES, don't bring it. You need STYGIES rangers screens or gtfo. Also, the truly fast melee units have ways to simply hop over screens. What matters more than screen quantity is screen space. I won my last game because a mortar team advanced and 1 of them got behind terrain and I pulled his friends as casualties and then spent CP to pass morale. That 1 survivor who got up farther than he should pushed the obliterator deepstrike out of range of my basilisks and won me the game.
Also, no matter how thick your screen is, it won't hold back 90 dice from a genestealer/bloodletter/ork bomb. But a suicide scout squad can space out their deepstrike and speed bump them so they are nicely in LOS for your robots.
So that leaves three screen units.
Skitarii - low space, no scout, and not durable for points unless STYGIES, but sometimes you need to take them as a tax. I will likely run MARS rangers just as backfield spacers and campers to keep deepstrikes at bay.
Scouts - irritating to bring because of the no-soup nerf, but these will save you from alpha legion infiltrates and all other manner of first turn tricks that bypass the DS nerf
Guard - ultra flimsy and generally crappy shooters and irritating to play because their shooting isn't all the same type (las pistol / las rifle / mortar). BUT they have one of the best screen tricks in the game - the MOVE MOVE MOVE order allows them to move 12 + 2d6 a turn, which is absolutely massive when it comes to screening by distance.
You need to:
1) Prevent yourself from getting pinned
2) Cover ground to deny Deep Strike
3) Buy yourself enough time to shoot incoming blobs down
4) Stop an Infiltrate bomb
I like MT doctrine Guard at the moment. Deploy them spread out to deny DS. In close ranks to deny Infiltrate. Castled up if they have flying or are going to footslog their way to you. You may need to move a lot T2 to consolidate your screen after the T1 shooting.
Skitarii are too expensive per body to be a good screen. Scouts too; they stop the infiltrate bomb great, but are subpar for everything else.
Suzuteo wrote: My first Dragoon, I made the mistake of not painting the leg plates separately.
On the plus side... my next 7 went faster, though still agonizing.
8 Dragoons!
Colour me impressed and jealous in equal measure
Confession: 4 of them were bought for a suspiciously good price on eBay ($26), and I am fairly certain they are resin. >_>
The fact that you cannot tell them apart at all though is troubling for Games Workshop. They need to either introduce better anti-counterfeit measures or make their pricing a bit more competitive.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/27 09:28:35
Wulfey wrote: In my experience, I have run 30-50 man guard screens. They still all die. People bring bolters now because they expect chaff. And when it comes to admech screens, if it aint STYGIES, don't bring it. You need STYGIES rangers screens or gtfo. Also, the truly fast melee units have ways to simply hop over screens. What matters more than screen quantity is screen space. I won my last game because a mortar team advanced and 1 of them got behind terrain and I pulled his friends as casualties and then spent CP to pass morale. That 1 survivor who got up farther than he should pushed the obliterator deepstrike out of range of my basilisks and won me the game.
Also, no matter how thick your screen is, it won't hold back 90 dice from a genestealer/bloodletter/ork bomb. But a suicide scout squad can space out their deepstrike and speed bump them so they are nicely in LOS for your robots.
So that leaves three screen units.
Skitarii - low space, no scout, and not durable for points unless STYGIES, but sometimes you need to take them as a tax. I will likely run MARS rangers just as backfield spacers and campers to keep deepstrikes at bay.
Scouts - irritating to bring because of the no-soup nerf, but these will save you from alpha legion infiltrates and all other manner of first turn tricks that bypass the DS nerf
Guard - ultra flimsy and generally crappy shooters and irritating to play because their shooting isn't all the same type (las pistol / las rifle / mortar). BUT they have one of the best screen tricks in the game - the MOVE MOVE MOVE order allows them to move 12 + 2d6 a turn, which is absolutely massive when it comes to screening by distance.
You need to:
1) Prevent yourself from getting pinned
2) Cover ground to deny Deep Strike
3) Buy yourself enough time to shoot incoming blobs down
4) Stop an Infiltrate bomb
I like MT doctrine Guard at the moment. Deploy them spread out to deny DS. In close ranks to deny Infiltrate. Castled up if they have flying or are going to footslog their way to you. You may need to move a lot T2 to consolidate your screen after the T1 shooting.
Skitarii are too expensive per body to be a good screen. Scouts too; they stop the infiltrate bomb great, but are subpar for everything else.
Suzuteo wrote: My first Dragoon, I made the mistake of not painting the leg plates separately.
On the plus side... my next 7 went faster, though still agonizing.
8 Dragoons!
Colour me impressed and jealous in equal measure
Confession: 4 of them were bought for a suspiciously good price on eBay ($26), and I am fairly certain they are resin. >_>
The fact that you cannot tell them apart at all though is troubling for Games Workshop. They need to either introduce better anti-counterfeit measures or make their pricing a bit more competitive.
I never even realised there might be alternative sculpts...interesting.(internal cogitators running google search sequences)
Aaranis wrote: I thought the same at first, but after building my second Dragoon I thought "wow this went much easier". I feel like it's difficult the first time but afterwards it's fine. I had luck because a friend of mine gave me his assembled Dragoon (with a nice little kitbash from WHFB Knights parts) because he stopped AdMech. I'm now currently painting both at the same time and so far it's not been a pain whatsoever.
EDIT: I'd play 2x3 easy because of how good they are. Keep one unit among my lines as a deterrent to enemy DS, and send the other tarpit some stuff like they're so good at. It's 408 pts for 36W of T5 4+/6++ -2 to Hit murderbirds.
They do get easier, but are still joyless to built. So much work!
And painting them is a major hassle too. So many sub-assemblies! UGH.
I think I will grab four more (added to the 3 I have done and I think two I have NIB still). I think this is the right path to "competitive" with this army for purists... though lol to "competitive", because we will never be top tier. But I think it would look rad as hell and I definitely hate myself enough to do it.
The only sub-assembly I do is the rider, who I attach after painting both. The other parts are either still accessible, or not visible enough to bother with as nobody will see it on the table.
I'm In for a world of pain. My 5 dragoons are magnetized but fully assembled...haven't painted any of them yet.
I'm considering buying some Idoneth Deepkin Namarti Thralls to convert into priests. You get 10 for the same price of 5 actual priests, just need to fashion some sort of electric stave and they look more or less the same!
Aaranis wrote: The only sub-assembly I do is the rider, who I attach after painting both. The other parts are either still accessible, or not visible enough to bother with as nobody will see it on the table.
I airbrush, so I have to have the armor plates off to one side. I also leave the legs off so I can paint the underside stuff easier. The rider for sure is on his own as well. I think I leave the feet off too... been a while.
It is such a miserable model to build (whoever designed the hip joints should be flogged) and to paint. The antenna and the leg pipe things... Ugghhhh.
Anyhow, enough griping from me. I will reserve further griping for when I finish off my next batch someday.
Ah yes if you're airbrushing I can see the problems. I'm all on layering so no problems like that. Currently painting my 2 additional Dragoons as I'm writing this. It will look ace on the table ! I'll take pictures of my finished Noctholm-pattern Kataphron Destroyers as soon as I'm done edge highlighting them. I'm kinda rushing my painting to be ready for a 1000 pts tournament at my LGS in a little less than a month, so I paint them until all the washes are done, then I'll do all the bases at once, and if I still have time I'll start edge highlighting everything. Got to think about a list too.
Guys, I've been planning. I'll use my guard as a screen, then deploy agripinaa skitarii Vanguard behind them. If something gets into combat with my screens, I'll fallback and shoot with skitarii (assault 3 weapons). If the enemy survives and attacks my skitarii, he'll have another round of shooting with overwatch.
https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/ Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500)
Spreelock wrote: Guys, I've been planning. I'll use my guard as a screen, then deploy agripinaa skitarii Vanguard behind them. If something gets into combat with my screens, I'll fallback and shoot with skitarii (assault 3 weapons). If the enemy survives and attacks my skitarii, he'll have another round of shooting with overwatch.
It's not a bad idea, but how many Vanguard do you want piling up in the back before it feels like a lot of points? The only Forge Worlds I see making them work otherwise would be Lucius and Stygies, solely for the Strategems (with me preferring the Lucius one while everyone hops on the new Deep Strike rules).
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
My theory is that the captain smashes are the anti-vehicle. He has 5 minimum swings on a charge, +d3 for 1CP. He hits on 3s rerolling 1s, wounds on 2s, and each hit is 3 damage. UWOF is usable to get across the board first turn. And captain smash can UWOF on top of some ruins and get a short charge distance do the recent FAQ. Beware things deepstriking 9" up ruins that can fly. The FAQ says you only measure the horizontal distance for charge distances, but measure the hypotenuse base to base to determine the 9".
EDIT: basically my old mortar guardsmen and basilisks have been turned into skitarii and captain smashes. The scouts and smashes could have been a guard battalion, but I didn't want to be at the mercy of my opponent's deployment so much. Basilisks are cool for providing a constant threat of killing one unit per turn. This comes down to me wanting to test a more in your face style and keeping my scouts. Smash is 129 points, and a basilisk is 108. The basilisk is more consistent at getting damage out from the first turn until the last. But smash can ace a yvhara.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/29 05:06:57
Spreelock wrote: Guys, I've been planning. I'll use my guard as a screen, then deploy agripinaa skitarii Vanguard behind them. If something gets into combat with my screens, I'll fallback and shoot with skitarii (assault 3 weapons). If the enemy survives and attacks my skitarii, he'll have another round of shooting with overwatch.
It's not a bad idea, but how many Vanguard do you want piling up in the back before it feels like a lot of points? The only Forge Worlds I see making them work otherwise would be Lucius and Stygies, solely for the Strategems (with me preferring the Lucius one while everyone hops on the new Deep Strike rules).
At the moment, I have 2x10 Vanguard, but I'll be adding more.
Perhaps this; 3x10 Vanguard (arcrifle, 2x plasma caliver) + 2x10 Rangers (3x arquebus)
And a whole bunch of kataphron destroyer! Today I painted some agripinaa colours for my Vanguard, and it seems really great.
https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/ Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500)
So this is a list I just threw together I'll be trying out before buying the models, of course. I feel it's solid.
The main thing is to break away from Cawlstar because it's going to continue to get hits and other units will be better in value. Seeing as I used to have a decent amount of Skitarii, I wanted to mostly focus on that. Anyway, here we go:
x8 Infiltrators
. Flechette Blaster and Taser Goads
That's a total of 16 units and 13 Command Points with the new FAQ.
The list will mostly bank on going first, and I'll plop the Rangers out near the front with their Dominus, and the lone Enginseer will be thrown in the back somewhere for deep strike denial as it isn't good for anything else but being a tax. Infiltrators will have to take advantage of the fact people won't deep strike as much and therefore backing screens will be less used. The Arquebus Rangers will target whatever Characters I can bank on killing (with 9 of them I can maybe land 2 dead characters a turn if I get good rolls and/or use the plus to hit Strategem).
Then the Lucius Dunecrawlers are placed as necessary, with the Dominus and Enginseers being next to them at all times healing as much as they can, and the Vanguard will be infiltrated and the Dragoons run up as a distraction.
I'm not confident in the list of course so I'm hoping Skitarii users might be able to help me out here. I think my framework is solid but I can definitely improve it I think.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Your list is missing some decent anti-tank shooting, maybe you should change dragoons for ballistarii, as you already have counter melee asset of infiltrators.
https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/ Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500)
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So this is a list I just threw together I'll be trying out before buying the models, of course. I feel it's solid.
The main thing is to break away from Cawlstar because it's going to continue to get hits and other units will be better in value. Seeing as I used to have a decent amount of Skitarii, I wanted to mostly focus on that. Anyway, here we go:
x8 Infiltrators
. Flechette Blaster and Taser Goads
That's a total of 16 units and 13 Command Points with the new FAQ.
The list will mostly bank on going first, and I'll plop the Rangers out near the front with their Dominus, and the lone Enginseer will be thrown in the back somewhere for deep strike denial as it isn't good for anything else but being a tax. Infiltrators will have to take advantage of the fact people won't deep strike as much and therefore backing screens will be less used. The Arquebus Rangers will target whatever Characters I can bank on killing (with 9 of them I can maybe land 2 dead characters a turn if I get good rolls and/or use the plus to hit Strategem).
Then the Lucius Dunecrawlers are placed as necessary, with the Dominus and Enginseers being next to them at all times healing as much as they can, and the Vanguard will be infiltrated and the Dragoons run up as a distraction.
I'm not confident in the list of course so I'm hoping Skitarii users might be able to help me out here. I think my framework is solid but I can definitely improve it I think.
I like your general idea but there's some stuff that bothers me. Why Graia ? For help with morale issue ? In my experience the -1 to Hit on Rangers is way better than a lucky 6+++. And your Arquebuses make way too many points, I wouldn't bring more than two squads of 5-7 Rangers with 2 arquebuses. Sure you might end up killing characters easy but that's basically 3 expensive squads that can't move. The data-tether I'm not sold on either, I'd rather give Omnispexes to shoot at Scouts and such without penalty. So, not sure on your sniper backfield.
The plasma Vanguard squads are a bold idea, they may either be really good if you get first turn, or dead fast if you get second. You'll have nothing to help with Morale, too, maybe a +1 if you're within 3" of your Dragoons/Onagers with the data-tether. Also, if you're into infiltrating all this consider having a Dominus nearby to give them rerolls, it would be sad to see half your squads explode with their plasma.
At least nothing with the Fly keyword will live long in you opponent's list, that's for sure. This will greatly help protect your backline. However the thing I'm concerned with your list, as with all pure AdMech sadly, is mobility. Grabbing objective and such. Especially seeing that your ObSec troops will either be immobile or quickly crippled.
I probably should've mentioned the Dominus would be the Warlord and I would be running the Graia Warlord Trait as it would help steer away potential chargers. That said, I'm probably not running enough dudes to make a lot out of it.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
ing things is why I’m never going to be able to play this army competitively. Not to mention the cost.
I will reserve further griping for when I finish off my next batch someday.
6k 
6k
3k 
1k 
