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I am building a SM army based on the black reach set and I am wondering which type of heavy cannon to load my squads up with.

Here is the general tactic I would like to play. Shoot as the enemy approaches and then engage in close combat one I have cut them down some. Of course, this is a newbie talking
so I may very well be out to lunch. My plan is to update the black reach set with scouts and then get Lasconnons for my tactical squads. The idea for these guns is that they
give me more range and thus I get more shots before the enemy is on me. Of course the drawback is that they are heavy and not assault.

Of course another way would be to play run and shoot, however, given that the SM don't seem to have many assault weapons, I thiink the first choice is better.

I would like to hear what you guys have to say

kalias

I like the missile launchers better than lascannons because they are free, hit almost as hard, and have great range. If you play on a standard sized table with only 24" of no-mans-land between deployment zones, most heavy weapons are in range anyway. I have never used them as I don't have the model but I think multimeltas would be handy as the ultimate tank killer and also free for tactical squads.

Plasma and Missile launchers are anti-infantry weapons. If you're shooting them at tanks (other than like AV10), you're doing it wrong.

Melta and Lascannons are anti-tank weapons. Melta is about 2-3 times better than lascannons, so only take lascannons if you think you're going to get at least 3 times as many shots in.

SM are BS4, but still, the amount of damage you're doing with a single heavy weapon in a tac squad is likely to be very minimal, at the most. If you take heavy weapons, they should support what you're already doing with the tac squads, rather than changing what you do with the tac squads just so that you can plink off a couple heavy weapons shots.

If you want to thin down troops I would go with the Plasma Cannon. They allow you to toast entire deep striking squads of MEQs, with no Armour save. Also make short work of necrons for a quick phase out.

Lasconnon are great too. They can pop tanks from right across the battlefield, and are handy for picking off any single model units, that don't have eternal warrior. They are also good to have, in case you run up against something with a melta immunity.

Missiles and Heavy bolters I generally find disappointing. They seem to work best against light infantry. But flamers and assault troops work better so meh.

Multimelta are great, but much shorter range than lascannon, so you aren't guaranteed as many shots, before they get killed. Usually 1 shot on a vehicle is enough to justify having them though.

Ailaros wrote:Plasma and Missile launchers are anti-infantry weapons. If you're shooting them at tanks (other than like AV10), you're doing it wrong.

Both plasma and missle launchers are also pretty damn good vs AV11, which is the most common AV in the game.

Ailaros wrote:Melta and Lascannons are anti-tank weapons. Melta is about 2-3 times better than lascannons, so only take lascannons if you think you're going to get at least 3 times as many shots in.

Melta may be much better than a lascannon at anti-armour, but a meltagun's effective range is 6" (otherwise your better off with a missle launcher) whilst the lascannon totes a higher S and a much, much, MUCH longer effective range. The trade-off is obviously the fact that the lascannon can target units throughout the game, whilst the meltagun has to spend 2-3 turns running into range before it really makes its points back. I also don't agree with the 2/3x better than a lascannon, expecially as a meltagun doesn't cost 2-3x as *much* as a lascannon on a Tactical squad.

Ailaros wrote:SM are BS4, but still, the amount of damage you're doing with a single heavy weapon in a tac squad is likely to be very minimal, at the most. If you take heavy weapons, they should support what you're already doing with the tac squads, rather than changing what you do with the tac squads just so that you can plink off a couple heavy weapons shots.

Lascannons are one-shot per turn. Meltaguns are the same. The BS4 makes both of these more viable in small numbers (as opposed to say, IG, where you need 2-3 meltaguns to achieve the same results.

If you want to go heavy anti-vehicle wth a Tactical squad take 10 men, a lascannon, meltagun and combi-melta on the Sergeant, buy them a Razorback with TLAC or TLLC and combat squad them. Now you have potentially 2x S9 shots at range (one that is TL and moving at 6" per turn) along with a shock unit of 2x meltas when they get close enough.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:[
Both plasma and missle launchers are also pretty damn good vs AV11, which is the most common AV in the game.

Really? I see way more AV12 than anything. Dreads, Chimera, Eldar tanks.

Multi-melta: You'll need to get close for this one, but once you are close enough, it'l do some extreme damage. 2d6+8 is what I'm talking about. Not recommended for a new player, since it requires tactics to get the full points out of it.
Plasma cannon: Very small blast. You'll probably hit only one per turn and you have the small risk of dieing. However, strength 7 is quite a bit.
Lascannon: At least one of these is a must-have, since it's the easiest to get anti-AV 14 weapon. Great damage and range. No downsides, but then again, expansive. Use it only in a squad (slightly) dedicated to vehicles, monsterous creatures, or low-toughness characters (or anything with a wound value higher then 1).

Don't forget that you don't have to take one. A Tactical Squad on the move is not very mobile with a heavy weapon in it. Always use a heavy weapon or an assault weapon, but not both.

Grakmar wrote:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:[
Both plasma and missle launchers are also pretty damn good vs AV11, which is the most common AV in the game.

Really? I see way more AV12 than anything. Dreads, Chimera, Eldar tanks.

I believe he means that the Rhino/Razorback is the vehicle common to the most codices overall, and therefore you can expect to see it most often.

Missile Launchers are extremely versatile, however they do neither anti-armor or anti-personnel as well as the others. They are free though.
Multi-Meltas I personally find disappointing. They only become better against armor at 12" or less and even then you will only get off one shot before you are blown to bits or CC'd. Combi-Meltas and Meltaguns I find are better choices.
Plasma Cannons are very good. They are blast and they are Str 7. Basically you can eviscerate horde armies. There is the whole gets hot issue...so if you tend to roll ones (like me) you might find yourself with a 5 point crater where your plasma cannon used to be.
Lascannons IMO are the best general issue SM weapon. With a range of 48", Str 9, and Ap 2, they are instant kill machines. If there is something you need to kill on the board, 9 times out of 10 a lascannon fits the bill. They will kill AP 12 vehicle 50% of the time, and will kill 14's on a 5 or 6. The ONLY drawback to an LC is the price. For Tac squads they are only 10 points, but for vehicles and such they can run 30+ points. Thats a lot of points to spend.

So where does this leave us?
ML- if you can't decide on anything else (but still need to get the job done)
MM- Take them on vehicles, or if you have Vulkan, but not in Tac squads.
PC- I don't take em, but they are very good for the price
LC- Love em can't get enough of em.

*these are my personal opinions/observations. Feel free to tear them to shreds.

Suicidal Cheez wrote: Not recommended for a new player, since it requires tactics to get the full points out of it.

Actually, I'd say that this is the exact reason why new players SHOULD use this weapon. Better to learn how to use weapons, even if it comes at a few hard knocks than to sit around using a crappy, easy weapon and wonder why things aren't going well for them.

Suicidal Cheez wrote:Lascannon: Great damage and range. No downsides, but then again, expansive.

Actually, the downside is that it doesn't do great damage, especially compared to other options. Once armor starts getting heavier, or things start making use of cover (including smoke), the lascannon starts getting craptastic in a hurry.

Ailaros wrote: [when] things start making use of cover (including smoke), the lascannon starts getting craptastic in a hurry.

How is that helped by using melta or any other weapon mentioned?

I have always read that getting 3+ shots with a lascannon versus 1 shot with a melta comes pretty close unless you start talking about cover then the lascannon is better as it gets more tries.

Grakmar wrote:Really? I see way more AV12 than anything. Dreads, Chimera, Eldar tanks.

Local meta vs global meta. I'm going by the global meta, whereby Razorbacks/Rhinos are far more prevelant than Chimeras/Dreadnoughts/Eldar.

L. Wrex

Before deciding, you must think first what kind of enemies are you be facing in the future? Your tactic is all well and good but as long as you don't know what enemy are you most likely gonna face, you won't have an optimum decision.

Meltas are super effective against vehicles, but it requires moving a bit closer to the enemy, sometimes too close for comfort. Lascannons are also good against enemy vehicles with great range, although meltas are still better. Plasma cannons are good against MEQs and other infantry, but of course there's the drawback of you dying, or scattering off, or having just one target because the enemy has spaced well. Missile launchers can be both used against vehicles and troops and has great range. Sure, it'll have a hard time hitting vehicles with higher armor values, but you can always pop a few transports with it, or switch to frag mode when enemies are bunched together.

just throwing in my opinion, I personally use 4 missile launchers in a dev squad, one tac squad with flamer and missile launcher all for all round use and one tac squad with meltagun and multimelta to take out tanks.

Remember, Lascannons are super threats to av12 and under, but Av13-14 will laugh it off. If you can afford to sit back and outrange your opponents with lascannons, do it, but usually the enemies going to have highly armoured dangerous targets like defilers and leman russ. Dem iz for meltaing!

Delivery is the problem with melta. Against orks in black reach, a lascannon will go places.

Well, assuming your talking about heavy options, heres my breakdown:

Plasma Cannons - Great vs marines, elite troops, and terminators. Do well against horde armies as well. Slight anti-tank capability (can pop AV 10-11 pretty reasonably).

Multi-meltas - Terrible. Unless your pace wolves running Logan I really see no use for these on basic troops. 24" range is pretty much what kills it; you can't move and shoot, meaning your trying to get position most of the time to take your one shot.

Lascannons - Pretty Meh in my opinion. Very expensive. These pop av 10-12 pretty reliably, av 13 somewhat reliably, and av 14 unless your shooting 2+ at it, a lot less reliably. I recommend meltaguns any day of the week for your AV 14 popping needs on troopers.

Missiles - Cheap, very effective against low-med armor. My top choice!

If your talking about basic special weps:
Meltagun - Top choice for most squads. Very effective at blowing up any type of armor.
Flamer - At least 1 squad in most armies should pack these. They give you great anti-horde capability.
Plasmagun - Expensive. Only useful against MC's, IC's, and elite units. Capable of popping light armor, but can pwn your own special weapons guys as well.

If you wait for the enemy to come to you, lascannon is your best bet. Enemy armor will probably not rumble towards your waiting melta weapon: lascannon's reach let's you hit it from afar.

Your strategy relies on your foe always coming towards you. This is great for the orks of the black reach set, but, as a guard player, I know that the enemy will not always do this. There will be armies shootier than yours. Plan for this.