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Well in my last couple of game my chosen have proved invaluble , what i've done is mounted them in a rhino , with a flamer and extra armour , then outflanked them near to wheat enemies i can , the flamer generally takes out a couple of enemies (last game half a squad of sriking scorpions) i outfit the squad with mot , 2 meltas , a plasma gun , plasma pistol and a champ with power weapon and plasma pistol .

but what do other csm players do with there chosen?

'claw

Infiltrate and melta is about it for me. My list is fluffly/casual so I don't have much AV outside these guys and a defiler.

Also IIRC they have 2 attacks base and 2 CCW so not bad in an assault (esp if you melta the poor bastards before charging).

Outflank is the competitive route.
Infiltrating is far too dangerous with little to no benefits.

I have lately run my chosen with 5 Meltas a squad or some variation there in (3 meltas, 2 Combi-Meltas), with a Rhino featuring a Combi-Melta and then Out flank them. Its worked pretty good.

I play city fights, so there is buckets of cover, so I infiltrate my 5 meltas as close as I can to the tanks, yet completely covered.

Always makes an impact - including when they dont fire at all.

I have saved my rushing rhino's and Defilers from getting dropped as tanks move away from the meltas. Sure they dont get to shoot, but one round of keeping the enemy from focusing their guns is worth it.

occassionally I like to infiltrate the CSM, and then rush up 3 melta bikers up a flank using turbo boost, meanwhile the rest of army advances. The opposing army focuses on the nearby threats (and their cover saves) my guys get within choppy distance!

Considering dropping in a flamer soon, just for those large infantry squads.

Ah I meant outflank actually, not infiltrate. You're right infiltrate is too risky as I find there is never enough cover to hide in.

It's not just lack of cover.
You will NEVER get into 2D6 range with melta guns with infiltrating.

It's more than 18 or more than 12.
You are likely to need to infiltrated more than 18, so you wan't even get a shot in.

Infiltrating rules are pretty strict, which in turn limites the usefulness of infiltrating.

Outflank, 4 meltaguns and an AC. 140 points, decent chance to do some damage, and if you've got a greater daemon in reserve, you can put them exactly where he wants to be.

What I have done in is 4 plasmas, champ with combi-plasma outflanking in a rhino. Is that a good idea? Because I have had bad luck with them and I'm wondering if its just a bad build to begin with..

Chosen are not, IMHO, a great way to get plasma weapons into your army. Terminators tend to do better, since they're only half as likely to burn themselves to death. More importantly, though, plasma weapons probably aren't going to be necessary every turn. Firing plasma at hordes, for example, is worse than a waste - it's a big risk for your chosen. Combi-plasmas are your best bet in most situations, whereas for melta you want them every round (pretty much).

I'm with Mek, Plasma doesn't seem to be the best way to go with Chosen, though if I need to dish out hurt on a large number of models or something with a high save a Squad full of Flamer four or five flamers is a good way to go. You can cut large chunks out with them or drown the high save models in wounds.

Plasma is cool in the fluff but in-game terms it hurts so bad.. I'm going to give flamers a try though.

Becareful with the flamers though you'll lose a lot of range, a Rhino would defiantly be good, and if you're worried about vehicles and range you could put a Combi-Melta on it.

MekanobSamael wrote:Chosen are not, IMHO, a great way to get plasma weapons into your army. Terminators tend to do better, since they're only half as likely to burn themselves to death. More importantly, though, plasma weapons probably aren't going to be necessary every turn. Firing plasma at hordes, for example, is worse than a waste - it's a big risk for your chosen. Combi-plasmas are your best bet in most situations, whereas for melta you want them every round (pretty much).

I agree, all things being equal I put Plasma in my Terminator squads and a mix of Melta/Flamers in my Chosen squads who are Outflanking in Rhinos.

<shakes head> You know...infiltrate lets you deploy anywhere as long as you are 18" (or 12" in some cases) away from the enemy. That doesn't mean you HAVE to place them retardedly close where they aren't going to do anything.

Instead, you can use it as a deployment trick to place them on an unprotected flank AFTER the enemy has deployed.

Also, there is no need to push them to shoot on the first turn. Sometimes, tactically all you need is a threat to divert your enemies resources. Sometimes, the best thing to do is drive up and pop smoke..deep in his deployment zone...placed in such a manner that if he commits any resources to taking them out, they won't be able to commit to the main battleline.

I don't get it Scuddman.
You can't infiltrate a rhino (with the intent to deploy later). You'd have to place the rhino down during normal deployment, then drop them near it when you do get to infiltrate something.

If you are not outflanking and not taking advantedge of getting closer for weapons, then that is wasted points in which you would have been better off with Havocs or better yet, a vanilla squad of CSM with 2 special weapons.

If a squad has infiltrate, the dedicated transport does as well. It's in the BGB.

Anyways, let's say you go first. You deploy your units. Your opponent deploys. Now that you can see how he's deployed, and now infiltrators deploy. That in itself is a huge advantage.

You can use your infiltrate move to counter-deploy.

Also, maybe a better way to look at it is that the infiltrating unit has a huge deployment zone of 18" away from the enemy or further.

And yes, you can deploy closer, but only if it gives you an advantage. Sometimes the best move is still more than 24" away. It depends.

I'm saying don't pigeon hole a unit into one deployment type.

Maybe I'll use a more specific example. You are playing against marines, and you are going first. If i'm going 2nd, I'd outflank. I deploy my units but keep the chosen for deployment later. I deploy mostly in the center and the right flank. The space marine player deploys his army, and places his land raider on my left flank...thinking that it's weak and that there is very little melta there.
Infiltrators now setup, and I place the chosen to counter his land raider.

scuddman wrote:
If a squad has infiltrate, the dedicated transport does as well. It's in the BGB.

Really, I'd like you to give me the page, column, and line as this is news to me.
IIRC, chosen with rhino are allowed to OUTFLANK with the rhino. The rhino itself can not infiltrate.

As for your example.... why would infiltrating Chosen more than 18" or 12" be useful vs. the raider?
Anything other than 12" allows him that first move(which is essentially all he wants...and then can smoke too). If you do get within 12" then you don't get 2D6 pen.... so you are relying on rolling 6's to GLANCE a raider on 4-5 shots that still need to hit.

scuddman wrote:If a squad has infiltrate, the dedicated transport does as well. It's in the BGB.

Citation needed.

scuddman wrote:Maybe I'll use a more specific example. You are playing against marines, and you are going first. If i'm going 2nd, I'd outflank. I deploy my units but keep the chosen for deployment later. I deploy mostly in the center and the right flank. The space marine player deploys his army, and places his land raider on my left flank...thinking that it's weak and that there is very little melta there.
Infiltrators now setup, and I place the chosen to counter his land raider.

I think the central problem with this technique is that placing the chosen, as you have said, "retardedly close" is one of the only ways to prevent them from being subjected to unreasonable amounts of enemy fire. After all, five models in power armor aren't tough. If you're 18" away from my land raider, you're also within assault range of the terminators inside, not to mention all the first-turn shooting that's about to happen to them, seeing as you're an assault army and I can afford to wait. This is why most people outflank them. It keeps them off the board where the enemy can't shoot them up before they make themselves useful.

@scuddman:

It clearly says that a unit deployed inside a transport cannot infiltrate. It even starts a new to paragraph say it.

Anyways, as I was checking I noticed that it says under scouts that their ability to scout and outflank is conferred onto their dedicated transport. I noticed that it does not specifically say this under infiltrators. It says that a unit with this ability deployed in a vehicle cannot infiltrate and infiltrators get a special outflank move if kept in reserve. Doesn't that mean that chosen can't outflank in their rhino?

IIRC, you have to look in the deployment from reserve rules near the Missions/Deployment section to find the Chosen outflanking in a rhino.

Yeah I found it under the outflank paragraph in the reserves section. What a weird place to find it lol

Ahh, mea culpa. I thought you could infiltrate them with their transport. In which case on your first turn you would drive 12", disembark 3", then shoot your meltas.

If it only works without a transport, then my idea only works with scout bikes. Nevermind.

I had amazing results with 5 Chosen: 2 meltas, 2 flamers, outflank in a Rhino. If i have the extra points then I either throw in another flamer or melta. I keep them in the Rhino and shoot from the fire points. I find they survive for about 2 turns but I have always made up the points in kills. And the way I see it is, that it eventually divides their fire. Especially if I drop in a combi-melta Termicide at the same time. My opponents usually goes for the Termies and my Chosen survive for another turn. I like using them alot , I even tried a having 3 of them. But I find that if I use more then one I can never make up the points.

Don't forget, you can only shoot out of the hatch if the rhino only moves 6"...which is honestly as far reaching as if they just walked on...maybe a fraction less.

Keeps them durable at the cost of having a MUCH smaller threat range. YMMV.

Wost case scenario. I can move the full 12" disembark 2" then fire. It leaves them in the open tho. I've done this only once and destroyed a vindicator. Then I lost them all on his turn. Plus if you land on the wrong side of the board It can be a very long walk. So having a Rhino is very helpful.

I run them four to five guns deep in a rhino.

Depending on the payload of the guns you can kiss an infantry/tank squad goodbye as they rip it to shreds.