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In building my SM list I have been looking at some options and one of them is the landspeeder. I love the model, I think it looks cool and would love to run them in a squadron of 2 or 3. The problem is whether they can be truly viable on the battlefield and not get too expensive especially for what amounts to a very fragile gun platform. One of the podcasts I listen to absolutely despises the landspeeder and is considered one of the joke units of the SM Codex. I want to believe that having a gun zipping around your enemy's flank has to have some value especially if it looks cool doing it.

The landspeeder is IMO very cheap naked but naked means heavy bolter gun. If I knew I was going to face Orks or Nids then a fast heavy bolter is not a bad idea. I can ping them from a distance and contest objectives. However the game is heavily geared towards Mech and so a heavy bolter against Mech IG or MEQ is not so hot to say the least. For 10 points more I get a multi melta. Nice. Now I have a fast multi melta than can zip around and pop transports while claiming a cover save for the movement.

You can kit it out as a typhoon with the missile launchers but then I think the Landspeeder has just gotten too expensive especially if I wanted to run 2-3. My main concern is that for armor 10 all around they are not going to be very survivable so I don't want to sink that many points into them with things like the missile launcher set up but maybe I'm wrong.

So I'm throwing this out to the pros and let me know what you think about the landspeeder. Is it a viable option? What is the best optimized load out for it? Thanks in advance for the advice.

I've seen Speeders fielded 2 ways effectively.

1) With dual hvy bolters. It stays cheap, has good range, and can put out a lot of shots.

2) With hvy flamer and melta gun - particularly in a Vulkan list. 9 Speeders with flamer and melta are 630 pts. Its a lot of points but it can absolutely wreck things. With Vulkan making everything twin-linked its offensive capabilities are outstanding. And a squadron of vehicles is fairly resilient.

I love my speeders. I run 2 at 1500, and 4 at 1750+. The ones I run are HF/MM. 70 points gives you a unit that has the best weapon against tanks, and the ideal weapon for hitting big units using cover. Truly a bargain.

The fact that they can turbo boost for cover, or deep strike keeps them relatively safe for their attack run. Just don't expect them like past that attack run lol. They are fragile, and they have the tendency to attract early game firepower as a result of their fragility and potential offensive power.

I wouldn't run them in squadrons until you are out of other FA slots. In a squad they die on a 4+ instead of a 5+ Unless you plan on blocking movement of vehicles (if they ram and destroy one, you can assign the hit to the one not actually blocking movement, squadron rules are fun).

Stravo wrote:Landspeeders - Are they viable?

Damn I hope so, I have almost finished buying/assembling a bunch for my Ravenwing.

Yes they are.

My question to Stravo: have you tried Search/Browsing the tactics section? I'm sure you can at least a handful on that topic.

We just had a big thread about Speeders, which may have been just recently bumped off the front page, so some of what I say here will be repetition, but here's what I've learned lately about Speeders:

As an extremely mobile unit, the best thing you can give Speeders is versatility. You will never know precisely what you'll need in any one section of a battle, but it is helpful to know that a Speeder can always get there. The popular MM/HF build is an example of this strategy; it carries the ideal weapons for killing either tanks or infantry, and is fast enough to put either weapon in just the right spot at any given moment, depending on your needs.

Another popular build is Typhoon/HB, which does similar things to the MM/HF, but at much longer range. With this weapon setup, each speeder can sit still and fire 2 Krak missiles and 3 HB shots, which is a bit of a mismatch, or it can move 12 inches and fire those 2 Kraks against side or rear armor of a vehicle. The Speeder can also move 12 inches and fire 3 HB shots and 2 Frag templates, which is a fair amount of anti-infantry power from a single unit, and in Squadrons can be absolutely devastating. This Speeder will be much more survivable, since any weapons capable of killing it at such long range would usually be dedicated toward stopping your tanks and transports; if your opponent shoots your annoying speeder, then he has to deal with the tanks, or vice-versa.

The MM/HF Speeder is almost certain to ruin something, but will most likely be shot out of the sky immediately afterward. On the other hand, the Typhoon/HB version can stay out of range of most weapons and damage the enemy incrementally over time. It's up to you which strategy is more appealing.

Sanctjud wrote:Yes they are.

My question to Stravo: have you tried Search/Browsing the tactics section? I'm sure you can at least a handful on that topic.

My apologies I didn't see the big discussion on the front page and just assumed without running a search. Now I see it. BTW another hit result was a very interesting discussion on heavy bolters which I'm learning a lot from.

Speeders are certaintly viable.

What podcast were you listining to? they don't seem to be in tune to the Meta.

most people agree that the MM/HF Speeder is awsome(personally i don't like it, but thats because i don't run close assault)

the Typhoon is my favorite(i have 4 and want more) for the reasons alanedomain said. it can hide at longrange where it might get cover and can blast away with the amount of fire power it packs.

Alanedomain: I like the HB/Typhoon idea. The only problem I have with it is cost. Thats 100 points per speeder. If you have a full squadron of 3, thats 300 points. For more than a Land Raider, you are getting three 10's all round vehicles. Worth it? IDK. Though that sort of firepower on such a mobile base is hard to disagree with...

NEARLY 300, but not quite.
Why do you need a full squadron?

One or two are quite good already. Three is a huge target, so unless it's like a 3000 point game or something like that, you won't need a full squad.

PraetorDave wrote:Alanedomain: I like the HB/Typhoon idea. The only problem I have with it is cost. Thats 100 points per speeder. If you have a full squadron of 3, thats 300 points. For more than a Land Raider, you are getting three 10's all round vehicles. Worth it? IDK. Though that sort of firepower on such a mobile base is hard to disagree with...

I'm not sure I like them as a full squadron. A single typhoon speeder is a good fire support option for when you've got less than 100 points to spend. More than that and I'd rather have an autocannon pred with las sponsons for 120 or a dread with 2 twin-linked autocannons for 125. Let's face it, the shots you really care about are the krak missiles from the speeder with a nice anti-infantry option for when there are no vehicles left to shoot, which rarely happens in today's mech environment (or when you really need some anti-infantry, but that's more rare since your list likely has marines with bolters kicking around everywhere or other anti-infantry.) The dread and the pred both put out 4 shots of the same or greater 'value' as 2 typhoons would (4 twin-linked autocannon shots aren't as strong but are more accurate and the 2 autocannon shots from the predator are inferior but the 2 lascannon shots are superior.)

When you've got a complete list with less than 100 points to spend, it's tough to find a worthwhile use for those and that's where I think the typhoon shines. Though, I've also seen it in an amusing anti-tank spam list of 9 typhoons, predators/devastators, and a bunch of tac marines in razorbacks. When you're that heavily invested in razorbacks/light armor, it really extends the lifespan of your other light armor due to target saturation.

PraetorDave wrote:Alanedomain: I like the HB/Typhoon idea. The only problem I have with it is cost. Thats 100 points per speeder. If you have a full squadron of 3, thats 300 points. For more than a Land Raider, you are getting three 10's all round vehicles. Worth it? IDK. Though that sort of firepower on such a mobile base is hard to disagree with...

You're paying 90 pts. per speeder, not 100. And if you really think about it: A Land Raider is as survivable against meltas (and really, everyone got plenty of them) as 3 single speeders are against long range firepower . Target Saturation delivers survivability but it can become a liability once you're playing a KP mission. I'm running a 3x Typhoon, 2x LasPlasRazor, 2x LF (and a Whirlý for the laughs and against blobs/mobz my list couldn't handle otherwise) SW list and I know that I'm screwed once I'm playing KP, playing KP AND DoW just makes the situation even worse xD.
Anyway: To come back to the LR/Speeder thing: A LRC/LRR won't be much more survivable in the current meta. The only real consideration would be a Godhammer LR and in that case you would need to compare 2 synchr. LCs and a single synchr. HB with 6 Kraks and 9 HB shots per round, coupled with better mobility, ways better anti infantry firepower (2 frags + HB after moving 12") and the ability to execute last turn contests. In return you get a quite survivable bastion for your objective holding pack/squad. As I'm going down the "as much AT-Firepower as I can" road with my wolves my choice is quite obvious, but it doesn't mean that you would have to get some Typhoons into your list.

But IMO: Typhoons are ways more survivable than MM/HF Speeders and deliver more reliable firepower over several rounds instead of trying to execute a single suicide melta run...

They may be fast. But they do go down fast. I got a lot of rockets

Grey Templar wrote:Speeders are certaintly viable.

What podcast were you listining to? they don't seem to be in tune to the Meta.

The 11th Company podcast - to be fair what they are saying is that there are better options for what the landspeeder does - such as attack bikes with multi melta and they find landspeeders way too fragile. But that's been their group's experience and I just feel like speeders have some good potential if you know how to use them.

I won 3 speeders in my 1500 point army. In the right army they can be very effective. Since they are fragile units, they are a bit of a finesse unit. You get punished horribly for not using them correctly, but their effectiveness is so high because you basically get the most concentrated heavy weapon fire out of the C:SM for the point value possible.

I prefer the typhoon hb combo, the increased range increases there survivability, very good for getting fire support where I want it. The hf/melta combo could be good but I play a fairly defensive sm force

Stravo wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Speeders are certaintly viable.

What podcast were you listining to? they don't seem to be in tune to the Meta.

The 11th Company podcast - to be fair what they are saying is that there are better options for what the landspeeder does - such as attack bikes with multi melta and they find landspeeders way too fragile. But that's been their group's experience and I just feel like speeders have some good potential if you know how to use them.

Attack bikes with multi melta aren't any more durable than land speeders. 50 points for a 2 wound model that isn't immune to instant death with just a 3+ cover and T4/5 as its only defense. So a single missile, assuming it hits and wounds (a 2+), will kill an attack bike. Against a LS, it has to roll at least a 3 to pen, and then roll at least a 5 to destroy it. (though other results are also acceptable, depending on which version) Bike can be torrented by small arms fire of any type. LS ignores S3, and is only glanced by S4.

That isn't to say attack bikes are bad, I own 2 and make good use out of them, its just saying their opinion isn't very well supported. I put them in bike squadrons, so they have extra wounds and other meltas with them. I also make them troops when I take them, soooo that style isn't exactly the plug and play style of tossing in a sacrificial FA unit into a list.

notabot187 wrote:Attack bikes with multi melta aren't any more durable than land speeders. 50 points for a 2 wound model that isn't immune to instant death with just a 3+ cover and T4/5 as its only defense. So a single missile, assuming it hits and wounds (a 2+), will kill an attack bike. Against a LS, it has to roll at least a 3 to pen, and then roll at least a 5 to destroy it. (though other results are also acceptable, depending on which version) Bike can be torrented by small arms fire of any type. LS ignores S3, and is only glanced by S4.

That isn't to say attack bikes are bad, I own 2 and make good use out of them, its just saying their opinion isn't very well supported. I put them in bike squadrons, so they have extra wounds and other meltas with them. I also make them troops when I take them, soooo that style isn't exactly the plug and play style of tossing in a sacrificial FA unit into a list.

Agree with most of your stuff... However, if your taking Land Speeders in squadrons then glancing a 6 CAN kill them. Penning 4+ will kill them as well.

however Speeders can be assured of a good round of shooting as they can hide in cover and then sprint into position to let loose.


Bikes really need to weather a single round of shooting before firing.



Most bike players only take Attack bikes as upgrades for Bike squads that are Troop choices and they fill their FA slots with speeders.

Stravo wrote:In building my SM list I have been looking at some options and one of them is the landspeeder. I love the model, I think it looks cool and would love to run them in a squadron of 2 or 3. The problem is whether they can be truly viable on the battlefield and not get too expensive especially for what amounts to a very fragile gun platform. One of the podcasts I listen to absolutely despises the landspeeder and is considered one of the joke units of the SM Codex. I want to believe that having a gun zipping around your enemy's flank has to have some value especially if it looks cool doing it.

Do whut? That's just silly. Plain silly, really. You're more than welcome to have the opinion that things like MM bikes do a better job, but landspeeders as a joke unit...well... play CSM where your fast attack choices are raptors, bikes and spawn, and speeders suddenly seem very cool

They do have a bit of a learning curve (I'm using Typhoons atm), and it can be punishing the first few games, but on the 5th or so game, you'll be blowing up venerable dreads from behind and turbo boosting to contest points

Typhoon Speeders...never thought to use them. I have new ideas that must be explored.

Thanks for the idea, Dakka.

I'm going to start playing aroud with pure Ravenwing pretty soon. My list will have something like 8-9 landspeeders. I will report back in a month or so with what I learn.

My MM/HF speeders have become staple! When you need cheap, mobile melta the speeder is the way to go!

The HF has worked wonders against nids in tournaments. Outflanking stealers? Move 12" and drop a template or 2. I don't see any stealers!

My Personal favorite is the Typhoon/HB Speeder. I usually keep it hovering just out of heavy bolter range plinking Krak missiles at transports. I bounce 12" into HB range when a soft infantry target presents itself. The unit is very mobile and versatile. I find it a really good option against orks of all types. The trick is to never take them in squadrons unless you are short on Fast Attack slots. A single Landspeeder tends to get ignored until everything else is dead. 3 Speeders in a Squadron just screams "Shoot me I'm easy to kill." If you keep the unit small and far away your opponent will have to use long range dedicated AA fire that could be better spent trying to crack open rhinos and Land raiders.

The Typhoon/HB style is aslo able to move 12" and fire w/ optimal effectiveness at any target.

I'm fuzzy on the rules, do they get a cover save of they move 12?

Being able to fire an also get a save would be sweet...

mattyrm wrote:I'm fuzzy on the rules, do they get a cover save of they move 12?

Being able to fire an also get a save would be sweet...

No they don't but moving 12" allows for easy flanking of enemy armor. This also helps for boxing the enemy in as well.

People tend to tout the Land Speeders ability to turbo boost 24" to cap an objective, but I think that if a LS is w/in 24" of an enemy, your doing it wrong. AV 10 w/in 24" of a tac squad is bolter-bait. Typhoon/HB Speeders should be 36" or more (IE. out-ranging all but dedicated Anti-Armor fire) from the enemy. And HF/MM and its variants usually are Immobilized weaponless floating terrain or smoking craters/wrecks come turn 5+.

The idea w/ the Land speeder (at least the Typhoon/HB style) is to be just annoying enough to inflict damage on the enemy, but not so threatening as to attract serious firepower.

A counter argument for the value of HF/MM or MM/MM speeders is to deploy them normally and flat out them w/in 24" of High-value enemy armor. Their 4+ will make them somewhat survivable and a huge pain in the enemy's rear if they decide to not dedicate power to taking them out. The only problem w/ this strategy is that a unit of 3 MM attack bikes can turbo-boost for an even better 3+ cover save and still have better small arms resistance w/ T5 3+ saves on 2 wounds.

I love my Speeders in both SW and vanilla marines a Sqn of 2 with ML/HB puts out a lot of fire and nicely supplements my Army. If I want to add an extra dimension I will add in another with a HB/MM to be a suicide Tank Hunter. I have found very few vehicles that are as reliable as my ML/HB speeders and have always taken them to tournaments where they have produced the goods. I love them YMMV

Ed_Bodger wrote:I love my Speeders in both SW and vanilla marines a Sqn of 2 with ML/HB puts out a lot of fire and nicely supplements my Army. If I want to add an extra dimension I will add in another with a HB/MM to be a suicide Tank Hunter. I have found very few vehicles that are as reliable as my ML/HB speeders and have always taken them to tournaments where they have produced the goods. I love them YMMV

The MM/MM speeder might actually be OK for SW since they don't have access to Attack bike squadrons. But the Typhoon/HB speeders aren't as good for them since the SW long fangs are so damn cheap 5ML w/ the ability to split fire for less than 150 is a steal and very effective. Only reasons Long fangs would be worse is that very few opponents will be dumb enough to give a full Long fang pack a shot at side or rear armor.

Interesting side tactic I've seen for SW is to put Logan in a Long Fangs pack, Then you can have either relentless ML or stick in a wolf guard w/ cyclone launcher and use the tank hunter ability to fire 7 Str 9 Missile shots (8 normal and +1 for Tank hunter). Your opponent's Land Raider crew will cry. Or fork out for the Las Cannon Fangs and launch Str 10 vs armor.

The thing that I love about the MM/HF speeder is the ability to DS close to enemy heavy armor and take it out. Sure it may die, but I will take a Land Raider for a speeder any day.

But IMO, take the speeder to fill some gaps in your army. Pick weapons that fit more to your army.