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There is an upcoming tournament here in 2 weeks and my friends and I decided to test ourselves against other players, so far we only played against each other. It is a special rules battle.

Here are the rules:

FOC:
1 HQ
2-6 TROOPS
0-1 ELITE
0-1 FAST ATTACK
0-1 HEAVY SUPPORT

Special rules:
1. No special characters
2. No models with wound 4+
3. No models with 2+ save
4. No ordnance weapons
5. Max AV 33 (front+side+rear)
6. No vehicles with 3 or more weapons

As you can see, all our vehicles are out, except War walkers and Vypers. Firstly I have to say I have no jetbikes. At all. Or Vypers. So a jetbike army is out of the question. That said, I don't know what army list to play, because it's a small board so anything highly mobile is not operating on its full potential(Warp spiders, for instance) and I can't get a few Wave Serpents in. So out of what I do have I thought about something like this:

HQ:

Farseer with Guide = 75

Troops:

10 Guardian Defenders with EML = 100

10 Dire Avengers(Exarch with dual catapults and Bladestorm) = 152

Elites:

6 Striking Scorpions(Exarch with Scorpion's claw and Shadowstrike) = 143

Heavy Support:

3 War walkers with Scatterlasers = 180

Total points: 650

I have 100 points to spare, any advice on where to spend them? The idea(not been given a considerable amount of thought, I admit) is to have Scorpions either protect my Guardians on an objective or outflank to get behind enemy lines. On a small map(48" x 36" I believe) their lack of mobility won't hurt so much and they can cause some mayhem around the opponent's deployment zone, as small as it is. I thought about a Wraithlord instead of War walkers, but eh, I need something to thin hordes, which reign supreme in these sort of battle arrangements. Honestly don't know how to approach this, it seems very very limiting when it comes to Eldar.

In fact, the rules severely restrict army selection.
But if you want to attend, you have to live with it.
What you have at the moment is not bad.
For 100 pts you could add some Fire Dragons on foot (never seen them on foot) or some Storm Guardians with flamers.

Yeah, those rules basically give Eldar the finger. Never been a fan of the "can't have armor total x" junk since it is biased toward rhino walls.

That said I'd go with...

Farseer w/ RoWarding, Guide, Fortune, Stones

10 Guardians w/ Scatter Laser + Warlock w/ Embolden
10 Guardians w/ Scatter Laser + Warlock w/ Embolden

3x Vypers w/ Scatter Lasers
3x Warwalkers w/ Dual Scatter Lasers


You'll have a rough time any way you go, but with a list like this you have a lot of firepower, plenty of bodies, and 6 Vehciles. Fortune up the Farseer's unit and Guide the Warwalkers.

No more than 1 HS slot, so either 3x Walkers or 1x Wraithlord.

I do want to attend, just for the fun's sake, so I have to make do with what I am allowed to have.

I don't have 20 Guardian Defenders, sadly, so one will have to be Avengers...but that's not entirely bad, their catapults are 18" range after all, so almost half the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, just saw you edited yours...Vypers, yes, they'd be nice, if I had them. Really, they're a bit expensive to get considering I don't plan on using them in any list other than this one.

BlueDagger is right about the Rhinos.
You can expect (C)SM armies two Rhinos trying to approach your front ranks
and you need to stop them ASAP.
Vypers and War Walkers with scatter lasers are perfect for this task.

Farseer w/ RoWarding, Guide, Fortune, Stones

10 Guardians w/ Scatter Laser + Warlock w/ Embolden
10 Dire Avengers

3x Vypers w/ Scatter Lasers
3x Warwalkers w/ Dual Scatter Lasers

No need for Bladestorm since at this point value losing a round of shooting will be more detrimental. Screen the DA with your Guardians.


EDIT: What model do you have to work with?

Farseer w/ RoWarding, Guide, Fortune, Stones

I'd be more inclined to doom the enemy unit the Avengers is shooting.
There is nothing precious in the list that needs to be fortuned.

For troops I have 20 Dire Avengers, 10 Storm Guardians, 15 Guardian Defenders, two platforms, one EML, one Scatterlaser.

For Elites I have 12 Banshees, 6 Scorpions and 6 Fire Dragons, for Fast Attack 5 Warp Spiders.

For HS and within parameters of the tourney: 3 War walkers and a Wraithlord.

And good point about Bladestorm, although against hordes, especially Orks, I have just one round of shooting before they're upon me. Might as well make it count.

Interesting its somewhat like a large combat patrol battle with extra FOC restrictions tacked on

I wrote this thread a while ago but it might be useful in this situation or at least you might get one piece of useful information out of it

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/315904.page

mind you it is written for combat patrol mission types

Nevertheless, no doubt I'll find it useful, thanks.

As for fortune, I have played once against it (better to say against Araenion )... He has put walkers in cover and fortuned them... I spent lots of ML shots trying to penetrate it... But we had poor lists...

As for nerfing eldars in this pts with this restrictions, I think that war walkers and vypers are more than enough for the eldars to play with... Sure, after playing tough as nails serpents, falcons and prism spamming, it's little hard to start thinking about other possibilities once you remove this

As for lists that will be played there, we yet do not know what people play... This will be first time we are attending (Araenion ofc will attend if he finally starts painting his army ) and by the time next tournament will be organised, we'll know more (it's every month, and players collect pts so at the end of winter there is ladder)...

I am going with SM, my other friend Orkyboy(who is shy dakkadakka poster ) will take orks so we have those two lists to tweak to... In case you're wondering how it looks (and in case you can help out ) here are links:

Ork army:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/322188.page
SM army:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/322186.page

Op forgot to mention the fact that the game is played on 3x4 table with all distances halved and with max 3 objectives in certain missions...

Also, just for fun (or to playtest our armies against it) I'm trying to make Necron 750pts army, but I don't think there's a way to make them competitive enough
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/322416.page

So just to connect all threads

Ah, good one there, Chinch. Hehe, spamming Dakka with our special rule threads.

Guide and Fortune or Guide and Doom, but most certainly Guide(last time I played with Doom and Fortune and it was a big mistake). I'll probably try to find some points for 5 Warp Spiders to take the role of those Vypers I lack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually I did mention that the table was 48" x 36". But clearly not visible enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, I have a dillema...Scorpions or Warp Spiders. I can't get both unfortunately.

On one hand, Scorpions are really useful for finishing up squads wounded by the Avengers or Walkers, on another the Spiders are another high S, high rate of fire squad, they can pop vehicles and add to the shots of the other three units.

I'll have to test it out and see.

Wow, this is an interesting problem.

My gut reaction is to suggest you take tactical squads in a Rhino

The AV 33 restriction is basically targeted at screwing over Eldar and IG, but lets see what we can do!

I like your initial list. I'd agree that Bladestorm is well worth it, even in this situation. Be careful how you use it, as you don't want to be left vulnerable. If a giant horde is approaching, bladestorm away as the DA will be dead in CC if they don't kill everything, but don't Bladestorm if it would be overkill.

Defenders vs Storm really a close call in this case. Typically, I suggest Storm, but by not being allowed any transports, Defenders are probably the right call.

I worry that you have almost nothing to take out enemy tanks, but with the armor restriction, you may be ok? 11 11 10 armor should be able to be handled with your War Walkers, but is there any 12 11 10 armor that could show up? If so, you need to find a way to deal with that other than your 1 EML.

Also, don't take the Scorpion's Claw! A Biting Blade will actually (usually) get you higher Str attacks and it strike at I!

*sigh* I keep looking at your list and thinking: This is perfect for a Fortuned Avatar!!! Then, I look at the 1 HQ restriction...

Maybe your best bet is to put a few spikes on your guardians, buy a Raider and call them Dark Eldar

Grakmar wrote:

The AV 33 restriction is basically targeted at screwing over Eldar and IG, but lets see what we can do!

IG? I have tried to make list for them to see what to expect... They can take 7 chimeras with 2s7 shots and HF, and 55 models of guardsmen (HQ squad, 2x platoon command squad and 4 infantry squads, all with dedicated chimera)... I think this is most powerfull 750 list with this rules

Grakmar wrote:
11 11 10 armor should be able to be handled with your War Walkers, but is there any 12 11 10 armor that could show up

As I said chimera
Well, it's 12 10 10 but still...

Grakmar wrote:
This is perfect for a Fortuned Avatar!!! Then, I look at the 1 HQ restriction

And don't forget no 4+ wounds

It's hard to make good list, and not to mention that there will be overpowered armies... So all in all, we're going just for fun, but want to be as competitive as we can

Chinchilla wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

The AV 33 restriction is basically targeted at screwing over Eldar and IG, but lets see what we can do!

IG? I have tried to make list for them to see what to expect... They can take 7 chimeras with 2s7 shots and HF, and 55 models of guardsmen (HQ squad, 2x platoon command squad and 4 infantry squads, all with dedicated chimera)... I think this is most powerfull 750 list with this rules

Ah, good point. I was thinking more along the line of their heavy tanks. Yeah, Chimera spam could be pretty ugly

Chinchilla wrote:

Grakmar wrote:
This is perfect for a Fortuned Avatar!!! Then, I look at the 1 HQ restriction

And don't forget no 4+ wounds

Yeah, my reading comprehension fails. At least there's no termies to worry about.

Chinchilla wrote:
It's hard to make good list, and not to mention that there will be overpowered armies... So all in all, we're going just for fun, but want to be as competitive as we can

This is very true. 40k works best at standard FOC and games between 1500 and 2000pts. Any time you change any of that, the balance is seriously affected. Focusing on rule#1: Have Fun! is by far the best strategy!

Take a wraithlord with double flamer with a Lance and Wraithsword

It can kill anything and is much harder to kill than 3 war walkers

And it has as many shots as war walkers, right? Trade off 24 shots s6 for 4 s6 shots

I know they are not popular, but have you considered taking a small squad of swooping hawks and Exarch with Sky Leap?

This might not be useful since you don't know what types of armies you'll be facing (although we can all assume plenty of Space Marines), but if you are going to face a lot of horde armies, at 750 points, they are going to be able to put a lot more models on the table than you. Being able to drop a few large blasts on them would probably be quite helpful.

Yes, I have, but again, like Vypers, I don't own Swooping Hawks and considering they're questionable in any other list(unlike Vypers), I wasn't planning on getting them.

I still can't decide whether to take Scorpions or Warp Spiders...I'm leaning toward the Scorpions. If the squad they assault is doomed, they can take down about 10 Boyz, thus winning combat, thus most likely sweeping advancing through the squad.

But I'm worried for my lack of firepower against tanks...Guided War walkers are excellent against AV 10-11, but I can only shoot at one target a turn. Weapon's platform helps there though.

Why assume space marines? 2 rhinos and marine squads aren't all that overpowered... This rules favor hordes, not meq...

As for scorpion/warp spyder dilemma, I think that warp spyders have necessary firepower that you lack and mobility (nice exchange for vypers)... Scorpions are nice and all, but outflanking them means that they'll come out too late and playing them means they get assaulted... Not too good imo...

Not necessarily if I screen them behind Guardians. But it's true that spiders can swoop across half the board in one turn and add another dangerous transport hunting(not so much because of AP - ) or horde-killing squad.

I think Warp Spiders or 3x Scattervypers are the only Fast Attack I'd consider. Elites are hard, but Harlequins would be better than scorpions.

Just one thing to comment on about the biting blade being better than the claw... I hope that was a joke!

Just as well, Zain, they aren't mutually exclusive.

And I don't think Harlies would be...primarily because it's a small board and they could be targeted right from the start, only getting worse the closer the enemy gets. Plus they're more expensive.

Zain60 wrote:Just one thing to comment on about the biting blade being better than the claw... I hope that was a joke!

No, I'm totally serious about the Blade being way better. Scorpion's main advantage in CC is their very high number of attacks striking at an I higher than most everyone else. With only T3, they need to rely on killing as many of their opponents as they can, before the counter-attacks cause them high casualties.

The Claw strikes last in CC, so it works against this primary goal. The Blade strikes at I6, fitting in perfectly with the rest of the Scorpions. Factor in that the Blade typically gets higher Str than the Claw and it is almost always a better weapon to have. The Power Weapon aspect of it just isn't enough to make it worthwhile.

If you're going against FnP or troops with awesome armor saves, you'd want to have Banshees anyway. Scorpions aren't designed to go up against things that need a power weapon to kill.

Again, you can have both, so it's a moot point.

But at any rate, Scorpion's claw against a tact squad ensures 2 dead marines on average just from that. It gives the squad versatility when needed and it often is.