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It's and attack. That's fast. Go figure.

This is the only catagory that I'm mixed up on. Flesh Hounds and Seekers tie for this one. So heres what I got.

Use Seekers:

In higher point games
Against elite enemies
When there is lots of cover

Use Hounds:

In lower point games
Against horde enemies
When there isn't much cover

In the end, I have to give it to the Hounds. On the charge they can be pretty good, and good enough to beat Seekers who can't take a shot worth crap.

Another side note, if you pick Furies, I will find you and kill you.

Mounted Daemonettes...they look so good...not talking about these new seekers...

I'm suprised you picked something that didn't make me kill you again.

I can't blame you guys for picking Seekers, as they are quite great.

Screamers can do more than people gıve them credıt for. I fınd that they are gerat ın forcıng people to move theır gunboat vehıcles, or have them blown to bıts. A unıt of 4-5 screamers doesnt cost the world, and your opponent better move that predator, or ıts gonna get raped ın the ass by jetbıke meltabombs.

But what Daemons hate are Mech armies. And those move fast all the time. If it's something that's just sitting still, just Deep Strike something nastsy next to it.

Seekers are allright, nothing in the fast attack section is worth using.

Screamers eıther:

Force your opponents vehıcles to move, then they arent shootıng as well.

Or your opponent doesnt move hıs vehıcles, and they dıe. Sımple as that.

Its not perfect. But ıt works better than youd thınk. Try ıt out some tıme, 2 unıts of 4-5 screamers, 1 ın each wave. I thınk youll be surprısed at what they can do. You should have FOC slots free, daemon fast attack ısnt exactly contested

Why are you polling? Just for fun?

I hope you aren't using these polls to determine what you think is the best unit. You are getting votes form people who don't play the army, haven't read the book, and whose opinion carries no weight.

If you want to know what the best units are, play them yourself or ask a successful Daemon player.

On top of that you can't determine what the "best" unit is out of context of what kind of army you play and who you play against.

The data you are collecting isn't worth much outside of maybe just having a laugh.

Hmm... Okay. I promise I'll give them a try. I need to buy two boxes of them to make my Tzeralds anyways....

But I won't be convinced unless I see results. Still, if you don't have points the throw into more numbers, just spend Fast Attack choices on upgrades or more troops.

Edit: And to Reecis, I've found that asking people questions is a good way to get answers to said questions. If somebody feels like unit X sucks, unless used with tactic Y while unit Z helps, then they can say that. This is a tactics fourm, for people to post tactics in. JGrand cleared me up on that.

Oh, and I'd love it if we could laugh about this. Laughter is always good. Maybe I'll go to the elites section and make fun of Beasts of Nurgle some more.

You're free to do as you please, but posting a poll for anyone to come and respond to is gong to give you skewed data. People with uninformed opinions will chime and and could possibly mislead you and others. They are not accurate.

If you really want constructive advice, read the forum guidelines.

Post your list, what you are trying to do, and who you play against most often. This places everything in context. Right now you are just getting random advice from people who may be thinking about a Daemon list totally different from the way you play or against different opponents than you play against making their advice of little use to you.

The more information you give, the better advice you will get.

If you just say, hey, what is best? You won't get actionable information. All you get is a bunch of random opinions taken out of context that won't do much for you.

Also, check out the article in my sig for some list building advice, it may be of some use to you.

Daemons are cool, but to play them well you really need a solid game plan and a list that has a lot of synergy. Taking units at random based off of some polls isn't going to do much.

Ask guys like Centurian99 and Hulksmash who win at tournaments with Daemons for their advice and I assure you it will be worth 10 times what you get from random polls which are mostly going to be answered by Space Marine players.

For what ıts worth, I do actually play daemons.

Depends on the role you use them in TBH.

I wont take hounds or furies for any reason, just too poor for any job.

Seekers are nice for anti-horde, but lack the ability to stay alive or do much else.

Screamers are great for tank hunting (something daemons lack badly) so i tend to take them more often than anything else.

I didn't mean anything personally against any of the people who posted in the thread, just that in general, polls are the worst way to get good information about tactics and list building. I am sure you are quite knowledgeable.

It's just that statistically, of the people answering the polls, which people do just because they think they are fun, most of them will not be experienced. It is simple math.

My only point was that if the OP wants better information, to specify and ask pointed questions from experienced players which if you play Daemons, you are one. A poll is too anonymous and too skewed with bad data to be of much use in a situation like this.

Honestly, I wish they would take polls out of sections like Tactics and Lists, they aren't very useful and can often be misleading.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Jack

Actually, if you run the numbers, seekers are comparable, point for point, to fiends which are excellent.

They both serve a similar roll and perform very closely.

Screamers are excellent as well, but again, as stated, all of this depends on context.

We need to know what kind of list the OP plays and who he plays against or all of this advice may be totally useless to him.

Well, like I said, it's not all for me. It's meant to be a gathering of knowledge. The poll part is, mainly, for fun. But the posting isn't. If everybody posts what they think works with what when used in whatever way, we might be able to make Daemon tactics a little bit better. Isn't that worth a little poll-spaming and bad advice to get everybody helping to imrpove the game?

Moving on, I dislike Screamers. And you guys have, to an extent, changed my mind about Khorn dogs. Seekers are my new favorite, unless the Screamers turn out to be useful. But the shear facts dictate that against Mech armies or other speeders, they fail. And in kill points they get cut down easy.

Actually, no, it isn't worth Poll spamming because you are making it very difficult for people to get any good information as it is all spread out over 5 different threads.

If you really want to contribute a good conversation follow the example set in this thread which is packed full of incredibly useful info:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319613.page

I'm not trying to pick on you at all, I applaud your effort, it's just that the way it is being done is not all that helpful.

And screamers are excellent, give them a go. Against MECH armies is where they shine, that is the best target for them. They are designed to kill those armies. Speeders are tough for hem, but a unit of 5 should hit once and that means certain damage to any speeder in the game. That is not bad odds at all.

As for KP, daemon armies typically have lower KP's than most lists which have transport vehicles, so having a few easy to gain KP units that are the counter to the current meta (Mech) is more than a fair trade off.

Think about this - a unit of 20 seekers on the charge gets 100 I6 rending attacks, and has a potential threat range of 24 inches.

Yeah, i know what i'll have please.

I like the fleshounds personally.

Though most people favor the seekers, the S3 doesn't make me happy. Sure they can rend, but I never seem to do well with that, and flesh hounds have served me well, the S5 really helps against transports compare to needing the rend.

Flesh Hounds are really nice.

I'm still suprised by all the Screamer lovers. This is the only site that says they're good! It's crazy that they're second place, and beat out the Flesh Hounds!

Crazy stuff. But I still think Fast Attack should be left out, but I did think of something.

You could drop the Flesh Hounds in to tie up enemies while your slower units catch up. Fun stuff.

My vote is for the seekers, they are fast (initiative and movement) they have rending and the new models look great.

Hey, I was just looking around...

Thoughts on Nurgle Blight Drones? They seem good, though pricy.

They also have value as a ramming unit. A good charge will get you a strength 10 attack.

Consider 48 points for a unit of 3 Screamers. You can easily afford to not have these things do anything at all, all game long and only use them for a final turn 24" boost to contest an objective. That alone is worth the points. On top this unit can threaten vehicles that didnt move and can be used as a screen for other units by Boosting them in front of the unit you want to give a coversave or protect form a charge. Screamers add flexibility and dispensability for a very low price.

The fact that other sites don't rate them highly doesn't mean a thing. Not to be too snobbish, but Dakka has by far the highest level of valuable response for competitive gameplay in WH40k IMO.

Flesh Hounds are nice. Fast, cheap and threatening to transports on the charge. They can also add numbers vs. a horde army. I don't find room for them in my pointslevel of play (1700 points), but I'd work them into 2k+ lists.

Seekers are very usable as well. The only FA that performs subpar are Furies.

Cilithan

I can't believe we needed a poll for this one. Seekers or nothing. Screamers get one attack each and will almost always need 6s to hit. As a late game objective contester, well, I wish I had enough extra points to waste on such frivolities. I need as much offense as I can get and everything we have costs too much already. In truth the whole fast attack section of the book suffer due to lack of points. But, if I can get one in, Seekers are the only option.

I run at least a single unit of 3-5 screamers in all my Daemon lists. They are a threat that people have to recognize in the current meta environment. They take pressure off other units in my army and are surprisingly reslient against anything but massive amounts of standard fire. They don't always perform but when I have a unit of 5 take out 2 vindi's on turn 2 or pop that nullzone libbies transport in a 5 game tournament that 80pts are pts well spent for the entire tournament even if they don't perform amazingly in any other game. It's all about having another tool in the toolbox. Ask Yermom about them too as he has a tendency to field them.

Seekers to me are crap. Unless you've filled your elites with Crushers fiends are generally better bang for the buck and Hounds St.5 on the charge can threaten tanks. Something that Seekers have trouble doing.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh and @Mechnomancer. What we have is generally very, very well costed with the single exception of some of the DP upgrades. It's so well costed because of how variable the army is. How many other non-mech armies can get a solid list and still run 17 KP's to spread out incoming fire? Zero....

17 kill points!?! Good lord, what are you running. My Tau army has less than that at 1750, with drones and all. 1750 Fatecrusher has ~10 kps.

All I'm saying is that our fast attack takes a back seat to every other force org slot. What other non mech lists are we talking about?

Screamers are really dependant on what you're facing. Nids and Necrons especially will render them largely moot and useless for their points (The former has no tanks and the latter's sole piece of heavy armor is immune to the melta special rule). With the advent of mech lists, they are indeed useful, but as a general well rounded unit I'd have to side with the Seekers. Competing against Flesh Hounds (the only thing that's comparable to Seekers on the list) Seekers have twice the attack for less strength, which the abundance of attacks can easily make up for. They can also kill most eldar dead in the tracks, stand a good chance at tearing a squad of terminators a new one with rending and have limited anti-vehicle capabilities. For one extra point, this is a pretty good tradeoff.

@MechaEmperor: Two points, actually. But Flesh Hounds can survive a round of fire. Seekers can't.

@Mechnomancer

At 2k I was running 4 Heralds of Tzeentch on Chariots, 2 Units of 6 Fiends, 1 Unit of 6 Bloodcrushers, 3 Units of Horrors, 1 Unit of Plague Bearers, 1 Unit of 5 Screamers, and 3 DP's but I did run an extra unit of Screamers and Plague Bearers by dropping some upgrades on a prince and dropping a bloodcrusher and an upgrade. It's not to hard to do but generally i'm between 15-17 KP's for my daemons.

Other non-mech lists include Necrons and Nids for the most part as everyone else can and will mech up given half a chance.

@Mechaemperor

If your playing Necrons or Nids then your grand total of 96 points will have to be used differently. I use them to stymie small enemy units or to grab last minute objectives. No unit in my army doesn't have a purpose in 99% of scenarios but I can see how some people could have problems adding them.

I'm still in this order personally:

Hounds
Screamers
Seekers

And Furies don't get to be on my list...

@bootman: I was actually comparing the pointcost to the screamers, but I worded it badly...oops ^^;

@hulksmash: it's mainly their one-geared purpose towards tankhunting that makes Screamers unappealing to me. However I really dislike the Fast Attack section in general since all of the units there die far too fast, especially since they have to deepstrike.

And yes, Furies have no chance.