Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Tau and their Caste system seem as if they would be very hard, if not impossible, to infiltrate. Would the Hive Mind have to resort to a full Planetary Assualt or are their other methods of bringing down structured societies indirectly?

I had thought of the possibility of a Mutagenic Virus, altering the DNA of the infected. Transforming them into a Hybrid that can further spread the virus, whilst completely negating the need for any clandestine practices. Tyranid zombies basically.

If genestealers can do it quietly, or get their claws on an ethereal, then they could do it. But your right though, structured society would see the threat more quickly.

If you think about it, the Tau would be pretty easy to infiltrate from a social point of view. You don't even have to form a cult - just infect the leaders of each caste and the rest will follow pretty much anything they say.

SilverMK2 wrote:If you think about it, the Tau would be pretty easy to infiltrate from a social point of view. You don't even have to form a cult - just infect the leaders of each caste and the rest will follow pretty much anything they say.

The hard part would be getting to the leaders though, a genestealer would stick out quite a bit from the locals.

Medium of Death wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:If you think about it, the Tau would be pretty easy to infiltrate from a social point of view. You don't even have to form a cult - just infect the leaders of each caste and the rest will follow pretty much anything they say.

The hard part would be getting to the leaders though, a genestealer would stick out quite a bit from the locals.

Except genestealers are insanely sneaky and wouldn't mix with normal people but crawl through sewers/air vents yntil they found an Etheral

Could infect one of the Etherals body guards , geting him closer to the Etheral for the final strike....

Surely a genestealer can't just go directly for the top. It would need to start an infected brood of it's own to even fathom the way the planet works politically and geographically. Surely in a tightly controlled planet, or structured chain of command, upstarts would be treated with suspicion.

Medium of Death wrote: Surely a genestealer can't just go directly for the top. It would need to start an infected brood of it's own to even fathom the way the planet works politically and geographically. Surely in a tightly controlled planet, or structured chain of command, upstarts would be treated with suspicion.

Nope.
Genestealers are inteligent and so they know what makes someone important also they could just hide in a palace or fortress for a few weeks/months until they spot someone who looks suitably rich and important then jump him and infect him.

What happens if an infected person walks by a kroot though, would they be able sense/smell it on a person?

Just a theory.

Mr Nobody wrote:What happens if an infected person walks by a kroot though, would they be able sense/smell it on a person?

Just a theory.

They probably could tell but the thing about a genestealer cult is that they have people everywhere so they could just move the kroot somewhere else or accuse the krrot of being infected and execute him.

Lexicanum wrote:Once upon a new world, the Genestealers seek out all forms of life, attempting to home in on species of a highly organised nature. Genestealers at first concentrate on infecting host victims, who go on to breed Genestealer/host hybrids and begin a generational cycle of new hybrids increasingly like the host species. Over decades, the hybrids will spread through a society and a hidden cult is established within the host's society. All members of the Genestealer cult are psychically linked and controlled by the original Genestealer. The cult is totally devoted to gaining political power within the society, often cloaking itself in the guise of a legitimate religion, while infecting suitable hosts, prospering and multiplying, and hiding their true nature from the broader society.

Surely in a culture where cults have no possibility in surviving the genestealers become redundant.
Is there no back-up/alternative plan for the Tyranids to use in order to bring down a world without a biomass intensive conflict?

Well no probably not.
But if they infect a few Etherals and maybe a Tau commander or two then they'd be all set and could work their way down or just call the fleets from then.

It's called mass invasion. Unless the Tyranids lose there is no biomass wasted as they just om nom nom on their own dead as well.

VikingScott wrote:It's called mass invasion. Unless the Tyranids lose there is no biomass wasted as they just om nom nom on their own dead as well.

He said without conflict.
Still a good idea though.

He said without a biomass intensive conflict.

The tyranids aren't diplomats. They invade and kill.

Even after a genestealer cult takes hold of a part of a population (say 5%) they then make the cultist rebel and cause havoc so the planet is easier prey for the mass invasion.
The cults don't take the world, the invasion does.

I would think that the Tau and any imperial planet that has such a rigid but still open social structure would be hard for Genestealers to infiltrate. They can't just take a leader because it's their instinct to form a cult not just take a leader.

It depends on the culture. Genestealers rely on forming cults and if the society is very controlling doesn't accept cults then people are going to notice. Even if a leader is taken other high up people will start to suspect, when someone so important (and therefore very unlikely to rebel against the culture) suddenly changes.

In the Case of Tau the kroot would cause a problem. One or two less important kroot could be moved or killed but once large groups (kroot kindred are very close and will support each other) or an important Shaper notice they can warn the Tau who would have probably noticed something was wrong with them.

VikingScott wrote:He said without a biomass intensive conflict.

The tyranids aren't diplomats. They invade and kill.

Even after a genestealer cult takes hold of a part of a population (say 5%) they then make the cultist rebel and cause havoc so the planet is easier prey for the mass invasion.
The cults don't take the world, the invasion does.

That really doesn't answer anything to be fair, as we already have established this.

The only difference between humans and tau is that human hive cities are so big that hundreds, if not thousands, of people can go missing without notice. Tau being smaller and more rigid in their behavior will notice anomalies in population and behavior. This will make a genestealer cult's job more difficult, but not impossible.

You're over-stating the 'cult' part of the Genestealer infesction and understating (re: completely missing out) the 'family' part.

A Genestealer can infect a lifeform and from that point onwards, the lifeform is subservient to the Genestealer's purpose. That purpose is to have a family. A large, extensive family. The parents, their children, the whole line - all of them focus their entire lives around keeping the secret and extending the family.

All it takes is for the still normal looking members to hide the hybrids, and that's easy enough with clothing, keeping them inside family dwellings etc and the infection can be completely missed. Locked cellars & basements, sewer tunnels, abandonned buildings, warehouses, farmsteads - the possibilities are endless.

The Genestealer bloodline spreads out through a population like cancer over a decade or more, and the whole bloodline works to keep itself hidden. It is far, far less direct than the local media reporting that "the govenor is acting a little strangely of late".

As long as kroot shapers didnt get near any of the infected tau. Its possible. As the kroots nature of being able to innately take on genetic material from the dead has let them know exactly what tyranids are and can sense them. But yes with the Tau caste system + ethereals. I can imagine it being a tad more difficult than most planets to infiltrate.

Xyptc wrote:You're over-stating the 'cult' part of the Genestealer infesction and understating (re: completely missing out) the 'family' part.

A Genestealer can infect a lifeform and from that point onwards, the lifeform is subservient to the Genestealer's purpose. That purpose is to have a family. A large, extensive family. The parents, their children, the whole line - all of them focus their entire lives around keeping the secret and extending the family.

All it takes is for the still normal looking members to hide the hybrids, and that's easy enough with clothing, keeping them inside family dwellings etc and the infection can be completely missed. Locked cellars & basements, sewer tunnels, abandonned buildings, warehouses, farmsteads - the possibilities are endless.

The Genestealer bloodline spreads out through a population like cancer over a decade or more, and the whole bloodline works to keep itself hidden. It is far, far less direct than the local media reporting that "the govenor is acting a little strangely of late".

must agree with this. no matter how structured the society is the genestealers could be sneaky and get away with it: they are smart, and dont have any rituals or anything of that sort, they just need to hide the worse looking members, while the tau looking ones deal with any issues among the non-infected. They could even cont. working for the greater good on the knowledge that this is all to keep themselves from being deteced, then once they have a large number, they kill off the defenses and the tyranids come in and nom nom

Genestealers wouldn't try to subvert Tau society but just eliminate the Etherals. That causes enough chaos as is.

They don't do any odd rituals but they do start to become over protective and almost worship the first hybrid. In Tau society which is all about giving up for the good of the society this will stand out. Irrational behavior will get noticed, as Tau try to think without emotion.

Tau are used to taking orders without question. If they refuse to act in a certain way even when order by an ethereal then it's clear something is up. Tau society is very transparent, everyone works together and let their emotions get in the way of their duty, there will be times when the are forced to act differently such as not wanting to be seperated or keeping each other safe. This is going to be much harder to justify in Tau society.

If a low down Tau notices something odd it won't just think "oh nevermind" like many huamns would. It would got straight to someone important.

4M2A wrote:They don't do any odd rituals but they do start to become over protective and almost worship the first hybrid. In Tau society which is all about giving up for the good of the society this will stand out. Irrational behavior will get noticed, as Tau try to think without emotion.

Tau are used to taking orders without question. If they refuse to act in a certain way even when order by an ethereal then it's clear something is up. Tau society is very transparent, everyone works together and let their emotions get in the way of their duty, there will be times when the are forced to act differently such as not wanting to be seperated or keeping each other safe. This is going to be much harder to justify in Tau society.

If a low down Tau notices something odd it won't just think "oh nevermind" like many huamns would. It would got straight to someone important.

You're also comparing Genestealer cult behaviour in a human environment to Genestealer cult behaviour in a Tau setting. The Genestealer infection plays off of the rules already present in a society, rather than imposing something else on them (like Chaos cults do). A Genestealer infection in a Tau colony would behave in a way so as to blend in seamlessly with the Tau colony, not so as to blend in seamlessly were the Tau clolony a human colony. If you think about it, that makes perfect sense - why would theTyranids design an infiltration organism that can only perform its task if the target world fulfils certain social parameters? No, much better to have an infiltration organism that subverts and uses the specific nuances of the target, meaning it can breed anywhere.

In the case of the Tau, this would mean that (in public at least) the "public face" of the Genestealer family continues to act exactly as normal Tau would - following orders, working towards the Greater Good, and generally acting like a good natured Tau. Everything "non-Tau" goes on behind closed (and locked) doors.

I haven't read any fluff saying they choose to behave protective, it's just their instinct.

From the impression we get from Tau society (there isn't much written about it) there are a lot less "locked doors". Tau follow a superior's orders what ever the situation. Their society would be much more transparent.