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I heard that they are changing Asdrubael Vect's fluff from him being the founder of Commoragh to just a very powerful archon. First of all, can anybody confirm or deny this bit of information. Second, why is the change even necessary? There was nothing wrong with him being the founder of the Dark City. What do you all think about this possible change?

Can we? If anyone has read it i think people will tell us hopefully D:

It's probably to distance the players from the really important characters in fluff. The Primarchs, High Lords of Terra, Chaos Gods, Hive Mind, and the such are all important background characters. Named Characters are usually the successor or champion of one of those really important background characters. It's probably also to justify how the characters can "die" in the game. The Phoenix Lords are said to be bound to their suits, so anyone donning them would become the next Phoenix Lord, with the appropriate memories so they are an exception. If Vect died it would be hard to justify how such an important and seemingly immortal character died in a largely random skirmish. Alternatively, it could be just to flesh out Asdrubael Vect's character, as it was unknown if he really was the founder of Commoragh.

Here is what I heard about the change. He is a very powerful archon, not the highest, but pretty well off. There is a section in the codex that talks about a group of space marine ships getting access to Commoragh through a direct portal from real space. I don't know if they actually invaded Commoragh or were pulled in, the later seems more likely. Anyway, the space marines (Salamanders I think and around 500 in number) decide to go to town, figuratively and literally. They have an easy time of it in the beginning, only fighting roving bands of hellions and archons that think they are way stronger than they really are.

Then the bigger archons start to rally and Lelith gets her wych cults involved. The marines start to take heavy casualties and begin to pull back. These archons start to call on Vect's forces to back them up, but they don't. Most of these archons are killed by the marines or Vect's forces in true Dark Eldar fashion. The marines find a way to escape Commoragh and Vect rises to a very high position.

Now whether or not you think that 500 space marines invading the webway is cool, do you think that this is a good turn for Vect's character? Or should he still be the unofficial leader of the entire city?


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Note: I agree with the bit about distancing the players from characters. I honestly think it should have been done a long time before. And Vect has been known to lie.

wow....I did not think he fell THAT far down the DE foodchain. That does disappoint me. Vect is rumored to be over 10k in age in the old codex, so that would mean that if that incident were to occur without a retcon (and assuming it's just fleshing out Vect's character without dropping him down a few ranks), that means that contigent of Salamanders were from the Great Crusade. However that just raises even more fluff-related questions.

If it is a ret-con, I am deeply saddened by the sudden drop Vect took. I can stand him not being the unofficial leader, but I also cant imagine him actually fighting for a position.

500 is about half of a chapter.

That is no small number of marines.

Which raises some other questions. . .but I assume those are covered elsewhere.

heh

Unfortunatly it would have to be a retcon. I'm pretty sure that it was within 3000 years of the present time period, can't confirm that though.


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I've been researching all of this but unfortunatly I can't find anything definite. Take my words with a grain of salt.

I think it might have been during the great crusade, as 500 Space Marines is no small force in present time for any one chapter. During the Great Crusade there would have definately been enough for that many marines, and the Emperor was working on a way into the Webway, so in some ways it does make a little bit of sense. However it would still require massive amounts of retcon even for that to work. I guess we'll just have to wait.

As it stands, Vect's "demotion" is likely for the reason I stated above. Abaddon can always explain his "death" by being spirited away into the warp, while the C'tans have been rumored to be phased out of the Necron codex when the update comes.

Im sure Vects still going to be good in Game play , fluff will be changed over time and Vect may be lower than he was but think about it. If you ride in a pimped out Raider/ravager with your Elite badass Incubi , slaves and elite pilots and gunners your still gona rock and think about it updated codecis will have diffrent fluff and units. C'tan are probaly in my opinoion gone , but will return better in Apocylipse or just be down graded like most Crons. Im sure most "special charaters" will be down graded as well.

12 year old fluff is bound to have a few ret-conns, if not an entire re-write. Which this is. I think the new story is kind of cool.

1.) The 4 pages of old Dark Eldar background were written, when GW thought that noone needs background. No need to stick to every detail of these 12 year old 4 pages.
2.) The new background is much cooler and convincing than the old one. And we get about 4 pages of cool "The rise of Asdrubal Vect" stories that wouldn't have been possible if he already started as Chuck Norris.

I won't spoiler the fun by summarizing the background, but it alone makes it worth buying the Codex.

I've had a quick look over the codex, and I'm pretty sure Vect no longer founded commoragh. I'm not a DE player so I may be thinking of the worng guy but I am confident it's vect.

The new fluff makes him one of the leading Archons in commoragh. As alread said while still a small archon he killed the others by offering them the chance to raid a sallies ship he pulled into commoragh. They tried and were defeated. Eventually more salamanders turn up, destoy large areas of commoragh and rescue them. By the time the DE backup arrives many of the most powerful cabals have been destroyed, leaving Vect in charge.

Commoragh itself is a very old city, I believe it existed before the fall and was at an intersection between may large webway paths. It's location meant that it wasn't really led by anyone so became the meeting point for the worst of the eldar. After the fall they decided to stay.

Azariah Kyras wrote:Unfortunatly it would have to be a retcon. I'm pretty sure that it was within 3000 years of the present time period, can't confirm that though.


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I've been researching all of this but unfortunatly I can't find anything definite. Take my words with a grain of salt.

it would have to be during the great crusade as the Salamanders suffered heavy losses during the Heresy and have no known successor chapters and are hovering around the 800 mark in strength.

I'm glad they are rewriting the DE fluff as others have pointed out the orginal stuff really wasn't done with much thought. They really didn't fit in the 40k world before.

whatwhat wrote:I'm glad they are rewriting the DE fluff as others have pointed out the orginal stuff really wasn't done with much thought. They really didn't fit in the 40k world before.

They still don't, what are you getting at?

Farmer wrote:

whatwhat wrote:I'm glad they are rewriting the DE fluff as others have pointed out the orginal stuff really wasn't done with much thought. They really didn't fit in the 40k world before.

They still don't, what are you getting at?

What am I getting at? What I just said. I'm glad they are rewriting the DE fluff.

whatwhat wrote:

Farmer wrote:

whatwhat wrote:I'm glad they are rewriting the DE fluff as others have pointed out the orginal stuff really wasn't done with much thought. They really didn't fit in the 40k world before.

They still don't, what are you getting at?

What am I getting at? What I just said. I'm glad they are rewriting the DE fluff.

Please, to avoid getting blood all over these lovely carpets, refrain from having a logic duel with whatwhat, you'll only end up broken and bloodied.

Grey Templar wrote:

Azariah Kyras wrote:Unfortunatly it would have to be a retcon. I'm pretty sure that it was within 3000 years of the present time period, can't confirm that though.


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I've been researching all of this but unfortunatly I can't find anything definite. Take my words with a grain of salt.

it would have to be during the great crusade as the Salamanders suffered heavy losses during the Heresy and have no known successor chapters and are hovering around the 800 mark in strength.

I remember that. Should have taken it into consideration.


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Farmer wrote:

whatwhat wrote:I'm glad they are rewriting the DE fluff as others have pointed out the orginal stuff really wasn't done with much thought. They really didn't fit in the 40k world before.

They still don't, what are you getting at?

Not trying to sound like a troll but why would you think that they don't fit in with the 40k universe? They fit in more than the tau, which is the only race that differs from the GRIMDARK-ness that has been rampant recently.

Smarteye wrote:12 year old fluff is bound to have a few ret-conns, if not an entire re-write. Which this is. I think the new story is kind of cool.

I fixed your quote.

Soulstorm is cannon, Vect was the leader of Commoragh in Soulstorm, the fluff is only 2 years old... Because of this, I doubt they will retcon the fluff, but instead, his 'new' fluff may have something to do with new information his "ExWife" might bring to the table.

Azariah Kyras wrote:Not trying to sound like a troll but why would you think that they don't fit in with the 40k universe? They fit in more than the tau, which is the only race that differs from the GRIMDARK-ness that has been rampant recently.

There is nothing in the existing Dark Eldar fluff which fully explains why they would want to muster an army and go against the other playable armies in 40k.

From the fluff: piratical raiders, yes. Warmongering crusaders? Not really.

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:

Smarteye wrote:12 year old fluff is bound to have a few ret-conns, if not an entire re-write. Which this is. I think the new story is kind of cool.

I fixed your quote.

Soulstorm is cannon, Vect was the leader of Commoragh in Soulstorm, the fluff is only 2 years old... Because of this, I doubt they will retcon the fluff, but instead, his 'new' fluff may have something to do with new information his "ExWife" might bring to the table.

If you are talking about a non GW-product replicating the only known 12 year old DE fluff, then you may be right.
But live with it: DE background improved and Vect didn't create Commoragh anymore.

Vect can't really die anyway. DE clone themselves.