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I was reading my BT codex, specifically tactical squads. I noticed what could end up being a large financial black hole in my wallet....

After flicking through the Space Marine codex and noting that marines now come with BP's, Chainswords and bolters in their wargear, it raised a couple of questions:

-If i had a space marine model with a boltgun, would he still count as having his other equipment?

- If i had a black templar model with a boltgun, would I be allowed to say that he was a BP/CCW marine instead?

I only ask this because most of my BT marines were bought in 3rd editiion, when the standard way to build marines was with boltguns and not much else.

1st off, vanilla marines do NOT come with BPs, chainswords, and bolters as their default gear

2nd, there are no rules anywhere in the game that can strip the default gear from a models.

Ughh thats my bad, I misread.

It looks like in the BT codex you chose BP+CCW, or Bolter. There is no option for Bolter and Chainswor it seems. (already said I see now)

Most people play (for CSM and Grey Hunters that have 3 weapons standard) that the basic equipment is there whatever the model has in its hands. BP+CCW, just a Bolter, Bolter+CCW are all ok and commonly seen.

For BT, I would recommend that you differentiate between the BP+CCW and bolter people somehow. If you are using ALL BP+CCW marines in the codex I would be okay with bolter dudes subbing in.

all of the models consistent and you are okay with most people. (All bolter are BP+CCW not just some)

On the far end of the spectrum, you could give your tac marines guitars and amps and it wouldn't affect their base gear they have. Very handy for playing CSM as there is basically no way to put all the gear on a marine without looking slightly rediculous.

For BT, it's a good idea to differentiate, since there's a big difference codex wise (as models can generally have only one or the other).

At the very least, be consistent. All BP/CCW marines should be identifiable, and all Bolter marines should be identifiable.

If you want more chainswords, I'd recommend getting some from a bits store.

Viper217 wrote:On the far end of the spectrum, you could give your tac marines guitars and amps and it wouldn't affect their base gear they have. Very handy for playing CSM as there is basically no way to put all the gear on a marine without looking slightly rediculous.

This works fine for vanilla marines but BT are a mostly unique case in that they don't have default equipment. They have two default options, and they may have a mix of the two within the same squad. So for the sake of your opponents sanity and for wound allocation you need to represent the proper wargear.

Tac squads get power armor, botgun, bolt pistol, krak and frag nades.
No Chainswords or CCW besides a single bolt pistol.

I had the same problem as you with the need for BP+CCW
just buy some in bulk of of ebay and start popping off arms.

(Sigh).

I can totally understand, just going to be a massive pain upgrading all these guys....

On a side topic (more fluff related I guess), why do CSM all get Bolt pistols, CCW's and boltguns and vanilla marines don't? You'd think they would both be the same?

1) Because Roboute Gulliman, UM Primarch who wrote the Codex Astartes, stated tac marines shall be armed with a bolt pistol, holy bolter and a combat knife. Assault specialists are allowed to go without the holy bolter in favour of a chainsword (and combat knife)

2) Because Chaos (and SW) have worked out how to make holsters.

EIther is as valid a reason as the others

It HAS to be two surely......

Sadly it isnt.

The master tactician of the primarchs seriously didnt think that maglocking a chainsword was a good idea....

As if the ultramarines needed MORE reasons for people to hate them lol.

In reality it is more like fluff following balancing. Less reason to take assault marines if you have BP+CS+Bolter on tac marines.

Now that's sensible reasoning. I guess if you tried to account for every case of "but this unit should have this because...." , you'd be there all day!

You can always use the "counts as" modeling trick for wound allocation - at least for a while until you get your bits, provided your opponents allow it.

By this, I mean you can paint a meltagun red (even if it's a bolter), or add a random bit that's close to what something might be, etc.

Heres what I'd do; Talk with your friends who play space wolves. Buy/trade all their BP/Chainsword extra bitz off them (they're likely to have a bunch). File/strip/modify the wolfy bitz off them, and wala! Cheap chainswords!

On the other hand, you could always just buy a bunch of AM kits and build them from there... but that would get expensive quickly

If you need CC weapons the BT upgrade sprue has a bunch of close combat weapons and pistols as well as all the proper BT iconography (e.g. shoulder pads, weapons, purity seals).

nosferatu1001 wrote:In reality it is more like fluff following balancing. Less reason to take assault marines if you have BP+CS+Bolter on tac marines.

Definately. Vanilla marines get assault marines who can trade their jump packs for transport vehicles, and BT do not. As a trade off (and to make them a much more assault based army) I can make any of my "tac" squads w/ bolt pistol/CC and get the same effect but with a larger number of squads (and even put them in LR crusaders or drop pods).

Its not so much acquiring the bits as it is reconverting/repainting :(

It's a pain believe you me, I transferred from chaos marines to templar and every bolter had to go away. Sad day.

Though if you want to be pro, seven marines in the squad take close combat weapons, one takes a fist, one a melta, and one takes a bolter. Why the bolter?
The bolter prevents the downside of the AAC, in that if you double tap that one guy you don't have to go charging into that dreadnought, or fletchet launching tau tank.