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2010/10/21 13:45:49
Subject: First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
I was most taken with the suggestion with regards to the fate of the marines from the 2 banished legions.
Did you note the numbers there eh ? deliberate or just a joke do you think ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/10/21 15:05:19
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2010/10/21 15:24:57
Subject: Re:First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
The suggestion that they were somehow annexed into the Ultramarines is very interesting. More so is when you go back and read about Aethon of the 19th Company having more responsibility and independance than any other Astartes of his kind. Leading his own expedition away from his primarch. One must wonder if there is more to Aethon than meets the eye...and they show that the Word Bearers were looking for some significance at the 19th's presence. If the 19th was part of the orinal 2 missing legions perhaps Gulliman was sending a message to Lorgar that that fate might awate his legion as well? lots to read into.
and this
Spoiler:
They talk of the purged and forgotten. Was one purged and the other forgotten or both. It seems that both legions were involved in the same thing
Spoiler:
And there is a veiled suggestion that the Custodes are directly seeded from the Emperor...
Best book for me so far.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Amazing actually.
Spoiler:
The suggestion that they were somehow annexed into the Ultramarines is very interesting. More so is when you go back and read about Aethon of the 19th Company having more responsibility and independance than any other Astartes of his kind. Leading his own expedition away from his primarch. One must wonder if there is more to Aethon than meets the eye...and they show that the Word Bearers were looking for some significance at the 19th's presence. If the 19th was part of the orinal 2 missing legions perhaps Gulliman was sending a message to Lorgar that that fate might awate his legion as well? lots to read into.
and this
Spoiler:
They talk of the purged and forgotten. Was one purged and the other forgotten or both. It seems that both legions were involved in the same thing
Spoiler:
And there is a veiled suggestion that the Custodes are directly seeded from the Emperor...
Best book for me so far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/10/21 15:25:40
2010/10/21 15:34:14
Subject: First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
Accidentally. I walked in to my local GW store and they said that they were now using UK release dates and not US ones. It was on the shelf. I like pleasant suprises.
2010/10/21 16:08:38
Subject: First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
Confused but looking to know more I like hearing about the missing legions
Do Space Marines Ever Have Fun?
If By "Fun" You Mean "Scour The Xenos Scum From The Galaxy" Then Yes Space Marines Can Have Fun.
"Scour The Xenos Scum From The Galaxy"
That Sounds More Like Cleaning The Bathroom...
Xenos-B-Gone, The #1 Alien Killing Bathroom Cleaner Of The 41st Millenium... Ingrediants May Include 99% Promethium %1 Spark
Instructions: Saturate, Rinse, Repeat And Killit Bang!! Xenos Are Gone!
2010/10/21 18:29:25
Subject: Re:First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
I'm actually of the opinion that the Custodians aren't derived from the Emperor at all.. comments and actions by the authors with regards to events in Nemesis lead me to further suspect that there is a lot more.. or perhaps even a lot less.. to the physicality of the Emperor than we currently think.
The Ultramarines are the 13th Legion.. and the two that "disappeared" -- separte incidents from my reading of it -- are the 2nd and the 11th... gotta love number games..
This is the "who's who" according to the author with regards to the scene with the Primarchs scatterring and arrivals
"
The Lion - in the forests of Caliban; Fulgrim on the plains of Chemos; Perturabo, among the mountain fortresses of Olympia; Curze, during the eternal night of Nostramo (and the only primarch-child to instinctively reach for a weapon when he saw civilisation); Angron, his face awash in blood and screaming in pain even as an infant; Mortarion, in the pollution-thick wilds of Barbarus; Magnus the Red, in Tizca; Horus, on the worthless world of Cthonia; Lorgar landing by the river near the City of Grey Flowers on Colchis (a vague Moses analogy...); and Alpharius, in some nebulous unseeable mystery place.
Basically, the Traitor Primarchs - in Legion order - and the Lion as well, perhaps reflecting the lore that he may or may not have been wavering in his loyalties, at least in the eyes of the Chaos Gods."
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2010/10/21 18:48:16
Subject: Re:First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
I'm actually of the opinion that the Custodians aren't derived from the Emperor at all.. comments and actions by the authors with regards to events in Nemesis lead me to further suspect that there is a lot more.. or perhaps even a lot less.. to the physicality of the Emperor than we currently think.
The Ultramarines are the 13th Legion.. and the two that "disappeared" -- separte incidents from my reading of it -- are the 2nd and the 11th... gotta love number games..
This is the "who's who" according to the author with regards to the scene with the Primarchs scatterring and arrivals
"
The Lion - in the forests of Caliban; Fulgrim on the plains of Chemos; Perturabo, among the mountain fortresses of Olympia; Curze, during the eternal night of Nostramo (and the only primarch-child to instinctively reach for a weapon when he saw civilisation); Angron, his face awash in blood and screaming in pain even as an infant; Mortarion, in the pollution-thick wilds of Barbarus; Magnus the Red, in Tizca; Horus, on the worthless world of Cthonia; Lorgar landing by the river near the City of Grey Flowers on Colchis (a vague Moses analogy...); and Alpharius, in some nebulous unseeable mystery place.
Basically, the Traitor Primarchs - in Legion order - and the Lion as well, perhaps reflecting the lore that he may or may not have been wavering in his loyalties, at least in the eyes of the Chaos Gods."
Yes the numbers game is interesting indeed and may have been intentional or at least symbolic. But
Spoiler:
When Lorgar talks to Magnus he recalls "how they..." and later is told to remember the oath he took THAT day. It seems that their fates were intertwined on that one day.
In regards to the Custodes
Spoiler:
Erebus wants a custodes taken alive so his blood can be used to find a weakness or strength to use against the Emperor under the assumption that they might be directly linked to the Emperor. And this fits perfectly into Erebus`s assassination plot in Nemesis. And yes there is more to the Emperor...Anathema, "the Creature called the Emperor of mankind". But keep in mind that the Daemon was probably only showing them what he wanted them to see...
2010/10/21 19:02:02
Subject: Re:First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
they fell in separate occurences.. one perhaps being religiously motivated in some way perhaps .. and it was after the 2nd one fel they swore to never speak of them ever again.
That was indeed a nod of the head towards Nemesis, but what is interesting about the timeline is that in Nemesis the Emperor features in several scenes in person... despite by then being busy holding the Golden Throne webway portal shut after Magnus' intrusion.
It could just be a minor error or "he was on a break" or some such but when quizzed about it the author said this point was raised known and considered at the time and the tale as is fits in with what GW want to do with the Emperor.
Would perhaps have been ncie to see some mention of the pylons on Cadia, the author has said though he felt that would have been too much of a distraction from what else was going on, and they can always be come to at a later date.
Nice touch with the purple eyes, and I felt it fitting that Cadia was, in many ways, the cradle of the genesis of the Heresy itself.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2010/10/21 19:11:16
Subject: Re:First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
They've already got plans for Corax and the RG.. and I believe Mr. Kyme would like to do something with the boys in green.
Spoiler:
Thing is, in "The Lightning Tower" we are told "..of those two absent brothers. Their separate tragedies had seemed like aberrations."
And knowing what a massive Dan Abnett fanboy Mr. DBC is I can't see him rewriting this.
Maybe it all just came to a head on one particularly awful day and that was when the oths were taken.
Curious that the Astartes seem to know some of what went on but not everything.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2010/10/22 12:09:52
Subject: First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
Haven't finished reading it yet, but it's definitely interesting. It annoys me that we get so much backstories from Daemons showing/telling people things because it's pretty well established that Daemons lie like crazy, so you can't really believe any of it. Also, with each passing story it seems more and more like the Emperor is either a colossal jackass, a complete idiot, or trying to force something like the Heresy to happen.
2010/10/25 09:33:28
Subject: First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
So far I am up to the events of Scions of the Storm on Forty Seven Sixteen and was really pleased to see the Legio Cybernetica. Always loved these guys.
Was quite amazed to find out that Kor Phaeron isn't actually Astartes - how cool is that?! In current fluff he must be the oldest living human.
The psychic might of the Emperor is pretty amazing, making a whole legion of 100 thousand kneel and I think gives us an insight in to just how powerful he is. But also makes us ask questions.
Also how the Custodes are is interesting, we have had hints at this before in Blood Games but it's good to hear it from an Astartes point of view.
Can't wait to read more...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/10/25 09:33:46
No pity, no remorse, no shoes
2010/11/15 17:24:26
Subject: Re:First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
BearersOfSalvation wrote:Haven't finished reading it yet, but it's definitely interesting. It annoys me that we get so much backstories from Daemons showing/telling people things because it's pretty well established that Daemons lie like crazy, so you can't really believe any of it. Also, with each passing story it seems more and more like the Emperor is either a colossal jackass, a complete idiot, or trying to force something like the Heresy to happen.
Well, its always been the contention of the HH series authors that there is no one single true turn of events. Not only are we seeing the same events from differing angles, but also like you say you have to question what is actually coming to pass because of who has said it. But, what if it is true?
This book is the latest in a long string of dubious decisions and actions taken by the Emperor. Well, things which seem obvious to us as normal human beings... every book you read it looks like he is moving further and further from any kind of definition as something we could label as 'human'.
I'm looking forward to hearing the other side of the story, in regard to Ingethel's explanation of the Emperor's "Treachery." It is obvious now that the Emperor knew full well the 'Imperial Truth' was a lie, hence the Gellar field surrounding the infant primarchs. One line I found most intriguing was at the end of the book when, after Argel Tal divulges the information he has learned about the 'Primordial Truth,' Aquillon tells Argel Tal "Brother ... you have been most blackly deceived." This seems to suggest the Emperor has informed the Custodes of what lies in the warp. So why the deception? What actually took place between the Emperor and the Chaos Gods, and what was his plan to best them?
Spoiler:
One thing that boggles my mind is how an Astartes can travel back in time to a point before his existence and change the course of the future? (I'm speaking of Argel Tal destroying the Gellar field protecting the primarchs.) And also, how the Emperor would be able to 'see' them and kill them if they disturbed anything. Any thoughts?
2011/01/26 09:46:15
Subject: First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
Pilau Rice wrote:It's Chaos smoke and mirrors Molson.
Convince your pawns that they have a choice in things and let them dance to your tune.
Daemons are not to be trusted
Exactly!
They didn't 'really' do any of these things - it was a dream/vision manipulation to show how naughty/awful/evil the Emperor is, and why they should totally betray him and all of humanity... just because!
2011/01/27 02:05:22
Subject: First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
THis is by far my favorite HH novel yet! I can't wait for more revelations about not only the Emperor but the Primarchs as well. It is such a great take on the 40kish universe, far better than the novels that take place in the "current" time.
I particularly think it was telling when Lorgar reacts to Guillimans demeanor when the Emperor and Malcador show up.
3k Daemons
2k IG (not Leaf Blower)
4k Vanilla Marines
1k of a budding Tyranid brood any suggestions on what to do with Tyranids?
2011/01/27 03:29:58
Subject: Re:First Heretic Discussion-***warning may contain spoilers***
deliberate or just a joke do you think ?
Do Space Marines Ever Have Fun?
.. and I believe Mr. Kyme would like to do something with the boys in green.
