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Hey All,
I just want to make a plug for the 4th annual Broadside Bash coming in February. Thankfully this event does not fall on Valentine's Day this year and is on the following weekend instead.The event will be held as part of the Strategicon convention at the Sheraton Gateway hotel in Los Angeles.

As I understand it there are only 40 spaces open for each game. The army point totals are 2200 for Fantasy, and 2000 for 40k. This event is part of the official GW GT circuit and will have Golden Tickets for the winners.

This event is being held by the Pacific Marauders gaming club. For more information, please see the event web page found here: http://www.broadsidebash.com/

40 for both? Why are they limiting themselves to less 40k spots than they had attendees last year? Oh well, I'll check it out cause it's right down the street from me so I'll probably go

It is in a different hotel this year, so I'm guessing they are limited on space. However, it says that they will also have room for 40 War of the Ring players and I doubt that they will get that many, so they will probably open up that table space to accomodate more 40k and Fantasy players.

Yeah, see I personally would have just done it out the door:

60 40k spots
40 Fantasy spots
20 WotR spots

Those are all increases from last year (heavily in the case of Fantasy and WotR) and appears as though they are trying to expland. The current numbers almost make it look like they are trying to level out 40k (the most popular even by more than 2x) with the other systems which I think is a mistake Just my opinion on the marketing. I'll probably hold out buying my ticket until I see the scenarios. I want to bring my DE or Nids (since I'm talking about them so much on my blog I should probably put my money where my mouth is) but I need to see the scenarios to see what's more viable.

On a side not I really hope they actually only do 1st round pairing with their "comp" scores since they were so far off the mark last year and they also extended it to the entire first day which mean even though I was 1-0-1 (win/loss/tie) I played a guy that was 0-2 in round 3 last year. Pure BP match-ups from round 2 on. Just something I hope they fix as it cause quite a few mutters last year. That and the fact that the overall winner didn't play anyone that was at the top 4 tables in game 5 all weekend also didn't help.

Yeah, since the event doesn't fall on Valentine's Day weekend as it has in the past, I got the "Hall Pass" from the wife to go play so I was committed before I really knew much.

As for the scenarios, I can't really say much until we see them. As long as it isn't anything super-goofy, I probably won't complain.

If considering that they have space for 120 people total, I really don't see them turning anyone away that wants to play. If I were to take a guess, I'd say that they will end up with 50-60 40k players, 30 or so Fantasy players, and about 10 LoTR guys. I could be way off on the Fantasy side and they may end up with more, but I think that 8th edition is still too new for a lot of people to really have a good feeling about it.

Considering this is a Pac Marauder event, I'm going to go hard-core on the soft scores. Basically that means that I'm going to do some extra highlighting on my wolves, build a cool new display for them, and write a mini-background for my list.

Yeah, last year soft scores were 66% of scores. And I'd suggest making sure you have noticable multi-level of highlights. I got hammered on my painting for it being "average" when I generally score very well in painting in every other event. It's a pretty subjective tournament but I normally just go for Best General which I've taken away 2/3 years so far So I'm gonna keep in this theme though I'll probably be running with my Nids so it might be an uphill fight

In regards to the numbers the thing that hurts them most is the way the Fantasy event went the first year they ran it. It had some major drama that alienated 90% of the SCGWL meaning that for the last 2 years they haven't cleared 20 people for fantasy. I hope that changes as I just want events to be successful in general but it's important to remember that gamers have long memories when you screw the pooch on things.

Hmmm, depending on how this falls in line with my school schedule next semester, I could make the drive down from San Jose, don't know yet if I'll do 40k or fantasy, but probably the latter.

Hulksmash wrote:
In regards to the numbers the thing that hurts them most is the way the Fantasy event went the first year they ran it. It had some major drama that alienated 90% of the SCGWL meaning that for the last 2 years they haven't cleared 20 people for fantasy. I hope that changes as I just want events to be successful in general but it's important to remember that gamers have long memories when you screw the pooch on things.

Yeah, I wasn't around to really see/hear what all happened, but I did hear that there was some drama. While I'd like to take the high-road and say that in this hobby of painting and pushing plastic miniatures around on the table there shouldn't be any room for anamosity, but the truth be told there have been events that I've attended in the past that I've sworn off of myself so I understand...

That being said, this should still be a good time and I'm looking forward to getting away for a weekend to play. If nothing else, it is a chance on Saturday night to head over to get a steak at Clearman's North Woods Inn which is my favorite restaurant in the world!

I will be there!

The BSB is a soft score heavy event, like 60% soft scores, and the missions last year were 3 good, 2 terrible. The comp judging was about average for most armies and horrible for some. They base the comp scores off of fluff, not power, so there were some rock hard armies with great scores and some gak armies with bad scores. It is very frustrating.

But, the terrain is awesome (needs LOS blockers on every board though) the guys running it are nice and efficient, and best of all, nearly all of my best 40K buddies will be there, so it is worth the trip.

And thank baby jeebus it isn't on Valentine's day, I know we gamers aren't known for being lady's men, but come on! We can at least try and get a little romance on Valentines!


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They have 40 spots for WotR? Last time there were like 5 guys? 40K had more than the other two games combined.

But hey, I'm sure money talks and if more 40K guys sign up, they will make room for them. They have to pay for the space, after all.

As I understand it, the 40k missions should be posted up on the BSB web page in the very near future. (Hopefully today)

Holy crap, 4 of those missions are really gakky. At least they dropped the worst mission from last year, but still, 4 of them have random victory conditions. I just don't understand why they think it is fun to have victory come down to the roll of a die, that is such a bad idea.

And I hope I am reading this wrong, but it looks like battle points are only 50 out of 140 points?!?!

Hahaha, Jiminy Christmas, that is really pushing it. Sportsmanship is 25 and favorite opponent is 5. That opens the door to abuse, big time.

Oh well. The event is fun and well run and I still plan on going. I just wish they would use missions close to those in the book.


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Fark me, and comp is 30 possible points, 0-6 per game, player judged. Ouch. That means sports, comp and players choice are 60 flipping points! Hahaha. Ah man.

They don't have anything posted for the fantasy tournament yet, (The one I would like to do) but if it's that heavy on sportsmanship etc...it might not be worth the trip. I really hate player judged scoring. All it takes is one rules query, where you can even be completely right on, and your opponent will slam you over upset feelings (who honestly believes people will stay objective?). Same goes with play scored comp. It's not hard to imagine "Hey, he beat me, must be a pretty F'd up list, 2 comp!" or "Hey, I beat him so he must have brought a fluff list, 5 comp!" sort of thing.

Though, I love me some competitive play, so I still might make the trip, just hope the scenarios are fun...

EDIT: Even though I'm a terrible player, I don't mind heavy painting scores, as it's a big aspect of the hobby, so some soft scoring is perfectly fine.

Yeah, all it takes is one guy who didn't have fun and he can take away 11 points! Which is more than a massacre earns you! That means one upset guy can take you out of the tournament. That is crappy.

Painting should be a separate thing, IMO. Being a good artist and being a good player are such different skills. They should have separate awards. Both are important parts of the hobby, but I think they are pretty hugely different.

Hopefully the fantasy scenarios are better than the 40K ones.

To be honest it looks like they didn't delete the "comp" from last year. It's not actually included in their scoring.

BP's count for 40% of overall. They must not have like Mike claiming to be the softest best overall in the country The "Hardcore" thing is a joke to. I saw the way they "judged" comp last year so I wouldn't even try to pick those points.

The thing I have a problem with is this from the Sportsmanship checklist:

Integrity-Did you think your opponent made an army list based on the theme of the relevent gaming universe and available background for that army (as opposed to a force built purely for winning with little or no regard to that armies established background)

This to me come off as completely elitist and over the top really. So if I build an army I like and it doesn't match your idea of fluff then I have no integrity? Statements like this further divide the community. Why not just leave that at did this person measure and yada appropriately?

So Missions:

Goals Not Guns (1)-So this is a 6 objective mission with 4 of the objectives being fairly close together in the middle. Kan Wall will love this. So will anyone with solid troops. Tau, Necrons, Daemons and Guard need not apply. Oh, and you need to hold all 6 for a Massacre.

Ground Control (2)-Isn't horrible. I'd prefer most VP's in a table quarter personally but most troops isn't horrible.

Lady Luck (3)-Another F-you to Necrons, Tau, Daemons, and Guard. It'll favor again heavy, resilient troop choices and midfield survivability. So...Marines, Orks and Nidz. Forcing you to come into an assault arc to play the mission isn't a good idea. Neither is randomness though that's the part I have the least problem with.

Numbers Game (4)-Well here is your bone shooty armies that aren't so bueno at combat. If your playing another shooty army pray you go first since the instant you kill enough enemy units you win, even if it's the top of a turn. It should be obvious how bad this is just at first glance. At this point I have to ask do balanced missions actually physically hurt you guys? Let's not even get into the deployment zones....

Provide No Quarter (5)-Just call it VP's. There is no reason not to really. Calling it something else just confuses people. Nothing horribly wrong with it. It's just a 4th edition mission with spearhead deployment.

Smear the (6)-Football with a random token? Really? Especially since troops have to spend a turn in the open to pick one up....

Try, Try, Tri (7)-So we didn't learn the lesson last year with an auto lose mission for some armies? Good luck Orks, Tau and Eldar...

These missions are almost painfully bad. Is it that hard to just slightly modify book missions? They kinda run a smooth event even though last year they boned the pair ups so bad that the overall winner never saw any of the other top finishers across the table from him. But to be honest I'm not actually sure I'm gonna make this. I have taken home best general 2 years out of 3 so I guess I might go to see if I can make it 3/4. Though I might be more inclined to spend my money on the Sprue Posse event and the NorCal event Reece's area is putting together in March...

I see what you mean by the scenarios....ouch! Also, how is Try, Try, Tri bad for orks? I didn't go last year so not sure on that one.

I hope the scenarios for WHFB are close to what they were at Da Grand Waaagh, they were straight from the book with just enough variables to make them unique.

Well unless the terrain is set perfectly for the mission (i.e. the objectives are in cover) orks have to stand out in the open and get blasted. Orks don't have what you would call enduring troops. Which means they have problems accumulating points and so lose quite handily. Eldar are in the same boat against anyone with more than 4 ranged heavy weapons....

The guy writing the scenarios doesn't play regular 40K. He plays a house rules version only in a for fun league setting.

So, he has very little experience in competitive 40K or even a good knowledge of the rules, to be honest. You notice there are no Dawn of War missions, again, and that is because he doesn't like DoW and did not know how it worked.

I am not putting him down, just stating why the missions are so bad. The other Pacific Marauders, the club putting this event on, pretty much only play Apocalypse. Most of them are openly anti-competition. They actually openly talked about switching the BSB to a no battle points event.

The fluff as comp thing is such a skewed measuring stick. Some "fluffy" armies, like Shane's foot Orks, will absolutely crush people at this event and score well in soft scores. Then, take a "fluffy" Eldar army and get crushed.

They are old school gamers coming from second and third edition where you really could break the game. Their mindset is so deeply ingrained that they fail to see that things have evolved past that and that this antiquated system is going to make their event less fun.

Anyway, rant off. I want to go and see my friends, I guess I will just take a gakky army and not worry too much about the results. Hahaha, yeah right, I am way too competitive for that. I should take my tournament Wolves and just crush everyone with total ruthlessness just to buck the system! But then, that would be mean to the other players.

Ah whatever, this tournament will be fun for the people there, definitely not for the system or the missions.

Hey Reece, I'll go if you promise to bring the nastiest list you can think of I'll match it since it won't matter how I paint I'll get an 11/30 again.....(not bitter, I swear). I'll even let you pick the codex I use Reece

I think it's funny that they are doing the "Hardcore" thing to count toward Best General plus the Sportsmanship score. It seems like an intentional move to help "their" type of player win.

My biggest issue is that their view is so skewed. This event is actually getting more out there every year. The best part is the worst comp score I got from them for an army I brought was for the year I didn't win Best General. Doesn't that seem odd?

Oh make no mistake, they will openly tell you they want a fluff player to win. These guys have said, and I quote, they'd like to see someone win a tournament even if they lost all of their games. No gak, those are words I heard with my own two ears.

I would bet dollars to donuts that the three guys on the panel of "highly experienced" 40K gamers will all be guys in their club who share the same points of view. The thing is, these guys do not play competitively, they have no idea what power game lists are. The guy judging the "hardcore" score, who also wrote the missions, thinks my Footdar are a well known power game army! hahaha. He is extremely narrow minded in terms of what is "fluffy" and what is not. You notice it says that players will be held to out of print standards of fluff? That is because I argued that no one should be held to standards of material that are not in print. I won't say anymore because I don't want to come across as talking trash.

Hmm, now I am on the fence. Half of me wants to bring the nastiest army I can come up with. Or, even better, come up with the nastiest "fluffy" themed army I can and game the system. That would probably be the smartest play in this case. Horde Orks would just crush these missions, especially with no DoW, fluff comp system (what's more Orky than the Ork horde?) and the hardcore fluff bunny award.

You should bring your LoganWing, Brad. Just lower the hammer! Actually though, your adeptus mecahnicus army would score super high in the soft scores and give you a huge advantage.


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Oh and yeah, Comp is in the score, 30 points worth, more than half of the battle points. Jeebus.

And yeah, getting the lowest comp score when you win best general is the exact opposite of what comp is meant to do.


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Best general is sports + hardcore + BP's?

God, this just gets worse and worse. If my best 40K buddies weren't going I wouldn't even consider this tournament.

If you have never played at this event before, stay far, far away from it.

The scoring and missions are just totally random. So you end up playing 5 games of 40k, and at the end you find out who's opponents let them win because your battle score has nothing to do with it.

I go to the BSB to play 5 games for 40k, and hang out with friends.

Actually Reece their standard breakdown says no comp points. And I'm pretty sure that little comp section at the bottom is just dumb leftover since they have the sports score down there that is totally different from the link in the 40k rules. So at least they dropped that.

As for my Admech army it wouldn't score high because it's not painted to their standard of "highlights" since I won't put 3 levels of highlights according to them conversions don't count until you do that so I'd probably still get a 11/30.....

If I'm in Cali still and I've got the weekend off I'll go. But otherwise we'll see. I wanted to run my bugs as my 2011 tournament army but I hate seeing poor painting scores because they aren't marines....

This one I'll skip this year. I guess I have to wait for the Slaughter to get my GT on.

I was considering to the BSB, but after looking at the scoring and missions, I have to say that I too am going to skip this.

I will skip this also. I was initially looking forward to attending, but after Reece's comments I am staying home. Reece is such a joy killer.

Yeah, I don't think this group realizes how much of a negative experience last year was for 40k for a lot of people and this year they decided to push it even farther. Instead of trying to grow the event they seem like they are trying to kill it. They already killed Fantasy with their first year shennanigans. It's like they don't want to run a tournament.

And the idea of "Tournament" Organizers saying they wish somebody 0-5 could win the tournament is just plain scary to me as a hobbyist and gamer.

Darrian13 wrote:I will skip this also. I was initially looking forward to attending, but after Reece's comments I am staying home. Reece is such a joy killer.

This. I was thinking I'd offer to drive down w/Reece, but he & Hulk have slain any desire to attend - I'll stay home, and work on my Adepticon armies instead.

Understand this: The tournement is four months away. If you have an idea or a legitimate concern about the construction of the missions, send a letter to the organizers. Im not off kilter when I suggest this as I am a member of the club and assisted running the event the first two years.

Yes, the Pacific Marauders core values are based on sportsmanship and hobbying, that shouldn't preclude you from building a hard list for fear of getting your soft scores nerfed....besides, that's why we have 'Ard Boyz. The PACMADS are not snobhobby elitests, nor are they power gamers, just a bunch of dudes who noticed a shortfall in large tournement play in SoCal and stepped up to provide a venue. They do not make money on the tournements, unlike other organizations who's goal is to do so, while still providing excellent prize support.

As for the WHFB missions, they are still play testing/observing how the new rules affect tournement play. Most of they guys play WHFB, rather than WH40k.

I encourage you to be PROACTIVE in seeking redress instead of allowing knee-jerk response/interpretations to dominate the discourse here.

Richard

sierm wrote:Understand this: The tournement is four months away. If you have an idea or a legitimate concern about the construction of the missions, send a letter to the organizers. Im not off kilter when I suggest this as I am a member of the club and assisted running the event the first two years.

Yes, the Pacific Marauders core values are based on sportsmanship and hobbying, that shouldn't preclude you from building a hard list for fear of getting your soft scores nerfed....besides, that's why we have 'Ard Boyz. The PACMADS are not snobhobby elitests, nor are they power gamers, just a bunch of dudes who noticed a shortfall in large tournement play in SoCal and stepped up to provide a venue. They do not make money on the tournements, unlike other organizations who's goal is to do so, while still providing excellent prize support.

As for the WHFB missions, they are still play testing/observing how the new rules affect tournement play. Most of they guys play WHFB, rather than WH40k.

I encourage you to be PROACTIVE in seeking redress instead of allowing knee-jerk response/interpretations to dominate the discourse here.

I have no baggage here, and no stake in the tournament. I look at the posted information, listen to the comments of people who have attended the event previously, and then decide whether or not it's worth the time & expense of traveling down to SoCal.

The TOs are certainly permitted to run the event they want to run, and it's my choice whether or not to attend. I really appreciate that they've posted the information so early, as it makes the decision-making process that much easier. I certainly don't expect them to change their perspective based on my wishes, and so I'm unlikely to expend much effort trying to get them to do so; I posted simply to provide another data point, if they're interested in collecting such.

*edit: I shouldn't give all the credit to Reece & Hulk; Blackmoor's previous description of the knee-high tables they were playing on last year is also lurking in the back of my mind.

I can't support this tourney format. I have attended before, and I have read tourney reports from Blackmoor and Hulksmash in the year I missed.

I don't believe comp has a place in a "tournament", I like to play 40k to win, and I like my opponents to do the same.

To all who just want a hobby weekend, by all means enjoy it. Their terrain does look nice. But I can't reinforce this "players who win games are jerks" attitude with my dollar vote, even if it means one less tourney weekend this year.

@sierm

Last year I did try and talk to the organizers. The first group of guys from your group were openly hostile when I tried to explain mission issues and how they favored certain armies. Then the current person doing the missions said that next year they'd be better because he'd have more time. Then went around being pissed that I didn't praise his missions.

The newest set of missions are horrible after having a year to do them. Only one of them isn't out the door bad. And no DoW in a 5 game tournament is abusable, just like last year. I've tried to talk to the TO's of this event about issues like comp from year 1 and 2. They flat out lied to me. I'm not inclined to waste my time trying to talk to TO's who are going out of their way to alienate me as a player.

I tried last year to talk to them about their "painting" checklist but was brushed aside. The TO's don't want to change and aren't open to criticism. I approached last year with serious, calm, rational, and non-aggressive advice on how to improve the event for everybody and got the shoulder.

And tell me how their quote under Integrity on the sports sheet doesn't come off elitist? Or the "Hardcore" score bit?