Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Greetings. I am currently in the process of painting up a whole bunch of Eldar models I bought earlier on in the year. However, I'm trying to plan a 1,000 to 1,500 point list to potentially take to Platinum Devil. I've never played Eldar before, and quite possibly will not get a practice game in before the event either (which is why I may end up not taking them). However, if I list everything I have (and I don't want to go and buy extra stuff as I've already used up all my hobby budget ) and some thoughts on what I want, is it possible people could suggest some potential lists for me? I'm expecting to face all sorts of stuff, so want an army that can handle mech, hordes, MC's, etc if at all possible

And without further ado, a list of what I have:
HQ
Farseer 2

Warlocks 10

Avatar 1

Jain Zar 1

Karabdras 1

Elites
Striking Scorpions 5 including:
Exarch 1
Scorpion's Claw 1

Fire Dragons 5 including:
Exarch 1
Fire Pike 1

Howling Banshees 10 including:
Exarch 2
Executioner 2

Harlequin Troupe 8 including:
Troupe Master 1
Death Jester 1
Shadowseer 1
Harlequin's Kiss 2
Fusion Pistol 2

Transport
Wave Serpent 2


Troops
Dire Avengers 27 plus Exarch 4

Rangers 8

Guardians 60

Storm Guardians 16

Guardian Jetbikes 4


Fast Attack
Shining Spears 5

Warp Spiders 10 inc Exarch 1

Swooping Hawks 6 inc Exarch 1

Viper Squadron 3


Heavy Support
Support weapon battery 1
D cannon 1

Dark Reapers 10 inc Exarch 2

Wrathlord 2

War Walker 3

Falcon 4

Fire Prism 1



*****************************

I was thinking of taking the following:

HQ
Avatar 1

Elites
Howling Banshees 5
Exarch 1
Executioner 1

Howling Banshees 5
Exarch 1
Executioner 1

Harlequins 8
Troupe Master 1
Shadowseer 1
Death Jester 1
Harlequin's Kiss 2
Fusion Pistol 2


Then I was debating taking the 4 guardian jet bikes and a couple of squads of 10 guardians with a support weapon each for my troops, and then spend the remainder of my points either on transports or shining spears/dark reapers. I wanted an assulty core which can keep the enemy busy with a solid back bone of guardians to hold objectives, and a zoomy troop choice to grab objectives at the end of the game.

Thoughts to help this Eldar noob?

So, you're going to be trying out Eldar for the first time in a competitive environment? Sadly, I'd suggest you not get your hopes up. Eldar have a very tough learning curve, and even when you get them down, they struggle against top-tier armies. Try playing some practice games before the event, even if it's just on Vassal.

In terms of what you currently have:

Farseer: Awesome choice, always include at least 1. Doom, Guide, Fortune are the only good powers. Take 1 of them, unless you take Spirit Stones, then take 2. Always take RofWarding on 1 Farseer. RofWitnessing if you need your abilites to work (ie to keep Fortune on a Farseer+Warlock squad).

Warlocks: Also a solid unit. They're too expensive to run in a massed squad at 1000pts (IMO), but at 1500, they can work well. It's best if they're on Jetbikes, but they can work in a WS too. If you do take them as a unit, don't skimp out on their number. The more, the better. Take a few Spears, but don't overdo it. Give 1 Enhance, 1 Embolden, and a few Destructor. Some should be run with no powers to keep points down.

Avatar: Works great in a foot-slogging list. Leave him at home for a mech list.

Jain Zar, Karahdras, or any other PL: Don't take them. They aren't worth NEARLY as much as they cost. Use them as cool models on your shelf, nothing more.

Scorpions: I like them, but they aren't particularly good. To be competitive, leave them out. If you must take them, fill out the squad as much as you can, and take a Biting Blade over the Scorpion's Claw.

Dragons: Excellent! Take a single squad of 5, no exarch in a WS with a TL-Cannon, never upgrade this! Anything more is simply a waste of points. (Although Stones on the WS work) They're a suicide squad: flying in, taking out any tank you want nearly 100% of the time, and dying. At higher pt games, you can take 2 of these squads, but 1 should be enough at 1500.

Banshees: These are like Scorpions. Keep them at home. If you must, take them in a fairly full squad (8 or 9) with Exarch+Executioner. War Shout can be taken if you have nothing else to use points on, but it looks way better than it is.

Harlequins: A few people like them, but most of us really don't. Eldar simply don't have a good CC squad that actually works well in game. If you really want them, don't bother with the Jester. You'll want them running or assaulting, he'll just slow them down.

Wave Serpent: A must for any competitive Eldar force. You'll need more than 2, sadly. For the Fire Dragon WS, take a Cannon or Scatter Laser. For your troop or Farseer+Warlock WS, take an EML or Brightlance.

Dire Avengers: These and Storm Guardians are the only competitive troop options. DA squads can either be: 10DA+Exarch w/ dual-catapult+Bladestorm, or 5DA no upgrade. The 5 DA work to either to just make a WS or Falcon scoring, they usually will never leave their transport or shoot a single time. Whatever option you take, they need a transport.

Rangers: They are 'meh'. A single squad upgraded to pathfinders can work just to sit in an objective that's in cover and take a few pot shots. Don't overdo them, and I recommend leaving them out entirely.

Defender Guardians: Sadly, not at all competitive They just don't have the range or survivability to do much of anything. A single heavy weapon with BS3 isn't enough to make up for how quickly they'll get wiped off the board by either shooting or CC.

Storm Guardians: Shockingly effective. They work about as well as DA squads (some say better, some say worse, I say 1 squad of each!). Take them with the following loadout: 10 Storm Guardians + 2 Flamers + Warlock with Destructor + WS. They are NOT a CC squad, they are a triple-flamer squad that (preferably with doom) burns things to death.

Jetbikes: I'm not a fan, but some people are. Run them in a group of 3 with a cannon upgrade and accompanied by a warlock on jetbike with embolden.

Shining Spears: Nope, too expensive.

Warp Spiders: Best option for FA choice. Take them if you can, but they aren't necessary.

Hawks: Nope, totally worthless. But, they look cool!

Viper: I'd stay away from them, they just don't work at well as War Walkers. In high enough Pt games, you can squeeze them in, but not at 1500.

D-Cannon: All the support weapons are rubbish. Don't bother.

Reapers: They seem cool, and can really punish MeQ in the open. But, you won't see MeQ in the open from a competitive player. Don't take them.

Wraithlord: Looks good on paper, but can't keep up in a mech list.

War Walkers: Excellent unit! I like to take a squad of 3, each with Scatter Lasers, but some people prefer Cannons to keep their cost down. If your Farseer is near them, toss them a guide and watch them tear things apart.

Falcon: Works well. Don't upgrade to a cannon. Try to put a squad of 5 DA inside so you can use it to score at the last moment. Anything else in transport is a waste. For a gun: go with EML or Brightlance.

Fire Prism: The best HS choice. Take 2 of them, and either give both or neither Holo Field.

Well, working with what you have, I think you could make a decent mech list with some infantry elements.

I disagree with Grakmar about Striking Scorpions. Take 6, take the claw and outflank. That's the only loadout I'd consider for them(in fact I use them like this. Not saying it's competitive, but it can get a job done - or it can utterly fail at it).

HQ:

Farseer x 2 is the best combination you can have. Make them different from each other and take one with Guide and Runes of Warding and the other Runes of Witnessing, Doom and Fortune.

Elites:

Take 1 Wave Serpent for your dragons, give it a TL Shuriken cannon, take the other for your Howling Banshees, give it Scatterlasers.

Troops:

Because your army is like it is, the units here won't do much killing, just hold objectives for you. 5 Rangers upgraded to Pathfinders, a unit of 3 jetbikes with the shuriken cannon upgrade and a warlock with Embolden and Singing spear, a minimal squad of 5 Dire Avengers in a Falcon to make it scoring.

Fast Attack:

A unit of 6-8 Warp Spiders is a really nice thing to have, but not as critical as some other things and pretty expensive, so take them only after filling the Elite and Heavy Support choices.

Vypers can also be excellent point fillers. Give them Scatterlasers and what is essentially a very mobile Guardian heyavy weapon platform.

Heavy Support:

3 War walkers. Take 6 Scatterlasers. That's some very awesome firepower from one unit and for a bargain 180 points.

Falcon: Brightlance, Holofields, Spirit stones - a tank that sits in the back, guards objectives with a squad of 5 DA and has a Guide seer inside to TL the shots.

Falcon: Scatterlasers + Shuriken cannon upgrade - so called Dakka falcon, usually in mid field killing transports and infantry, with the occasional heavier tank that you get lucky on. It's empty, and because of that, it can zoom across the board and grab those Pathfinders inside to make it also scoring. Rangers by themselves won't do much damage, but you can pull some neat tricks with a tactic like this in an objective game.

Alternatively, you can forget about the Banshees and take a full squad of 10 Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent with a Brightlance and Spirit stones in addition to the rest of the troop choices. I like this one better, actually, but you said you'd like to have an assault element in your army.

Also, note I'm a little worried at your ability to take a LR down. If those Dragons were to be shot down early, you need to have an alternative that can pop AV 14. Hence the Brightlance on the Falcon and the Avenger Wave Serpent.

Thanks for the comments guys - I know Eldar have a bit of a steep learning curve, but the tournament is more of a friendly setting than most which is why I was thinking of taking them.

I will have a think through your suggestions on units and tactics and see what I like and what I don't.

Hey Silver - jeez you have a lot of Eldar!!

My suggestions are (if you're keen on talking a footlist) that you're halfway there with your Avatar & Guardians idea. You can either maximise squads of guardians (20), or what I'd do is take as many ten-man squads as you can, and keep them within range of the Avatar's Fearless Bubble. This way you could be looking at having maybe 6 scatter lasers/emls/cannons on the field, and that hurts no matter who you are!

2 HQs at this points level is a waste, but a cheap farseer with guide/fortune could sit nicely in with this lot giving them a hell of a lot of resilience, whilst your ellites kick face.

Shining Spears are awesome. 3+ sv, and they hit with a bang; plus they have Withdraw, which has nice tactical implications. You could take a couple of 3-strong squads of Jet Guardians to cover them, as cannons make them useful. A useful trick is assaulting with Guardian Biker and Spears, then withdrawing the spears, leaving the bikes locked in. The bikes may well die, but your shining spears will undoubtably survive for another turn.

Banshees are lovely, but with no transport you have little hope of getting them upfield without lucky fleet rolls and canny use of cover. I'd be tempted to take scorpions and hopefully get messy within the first two turns. Harlies are amazing on foot, provided you're taking a shadowseer, so keep them as they are

It's my opinion that Reapers are decidedly meh. If you like the models though, put them in - that's what my PD list is going to be themed around - cool models that apparently "suck" in-game.

My suggestions for eldar, please DONT* invest in two HQ at 1000 points, 1500 points I always take two farseer, the Avatar and said phoenix lords are a joke comparatively to Eldrad and farseers in terms of what they can give to your army over the course of a game.

The blood of your troop are dire avengers, Guardians are in my eyes and many other players tourney or not, worthless, Eldar are all about mobility down to the tactics and divide & conquer. Eldar jetbikes with warlock / far seer are invaluable, in terms of securing your mission objectives and support harassment.

Fire dragons, Banshee's are a must, to split armour and tanks, comparatively the amount of deaths you will incur against a unit of marines you will need 10 scorpions to 6 banshee to achieve the same success rate. which is absurd for cost per unit.

you will want dragons/banshees and your dires ALL in transport. dragons in a wave serpent.

I also vouch on War walkers with EML/EML x 3, cheap, cheerful and can deal alot of deadly fire.

Dont get overly concerned with all the options in eldar but don't be mislead, you want the versatility but you NEED to compare the units down to the overall % effectiveness regardless of how pretty or unique stat/skill.


as a second sight, my very learned friend from GW and head of 40k onlines eldar forums has shining spears but does not utilize them in his standard game set up, ill add i believe he has only lost 1 game in his eldar life? it is worth checking out lorizael on 40k online for advice.



Kind regards



Khar

Without descending into a nerdwar, Khargrim, I disagree with your point about Guardians. They're useful if you want a footdar list. Point for point they can stand up against DAs, especially with a scatter laser.

Seer councils are very expensive for a 1k list - much as I love them. In an all-comers list you might be left out in the cold fielding Banshees against Guard or Nids.

Tek wrote:Without descending into a nerdwar, Khargrim, I disagree with your point about Guardians. They're useful if you want a footdar list. Point for point they can stand up against DAs, especially with a scatter laser.

Seer councils are very expensive for a 1k list - much as I love them. In an all-comers list you might be left out in the cold fielding Banshees against Guard or Nids.

Defender Guardians can work fairly well if they are supported by an Avatar to keep them fearless. It's not the most ideal list, and not as competitive as mech, but they can work well in that roll.

Looking at what you own this would be my choices to play:
You don't have enough vehicles to cut the mustard so do the eldar foot army. You need to learn how to dance and frankly it doesn't work too well in 5th ed. (Guardians need to be setup for one 12" doom & ideally guided shot.) The idea is to drop the guide on your big guardian unit and doom their target.


HQ: 1 Farseer: Doom & Fortune
1 Avatar:

Elite: 8 Harlequins

Troop:
20 Guardians with SL & Conceal Warlock
10 Guardians with BL or EML
10 Guardians with BL or EML
10 Dire Avengers with Exarch w 2 Cats and
Bladestorm
10 DAs with Exarch PW & SS with BS & Defend
8 Pathfinders
Fast:
10 Warp Spiders w Exarch

Heavy: 2 WL w BL & EML


Your problem is AT but you should excel at anti-personnel.

The big guardian squad at least has a 5+ cover and can shield the rest of your army. The farseer can go with the DA's with Defend Exarch. (This is a poor man's warlock retinue especially with fortune.)

Totally a counter-punch army though so if/when you are outclassed at range, you will get owned.

With a doom and a guide, the true joy will be letting your pathfinders beat termies and MC's senseless. Just keep your farseer to help them out... Doom their target and their 50% wound ratio goes up to 75% and really does a number when 33% are AP1 and another8+% are AP2 rending.

This is a castle-style army with guardians protecting the base, DA's protecting the guardians and your 3 MC's protecting the rest.

The joy is I know this is more than 1500 but trim as necessary. Lose the harlies first, the bladestorm DA's second and then it is your choice.

If you can manage it, turne the farseer into Eldrad and the army will perform a lot better albeit you probably would have to dump an entire guardian squad.

In a mech list, Storm Guardians are very solid.

2 flamers and a destructor coming out of a wave serpent can put out comparable damage to Dire Avengers (and more damage against hordes in the ever present cover), as well as superior close combat abilities if you need to charge an enemy on an objective. Storm guardians are especially attractive because a tri-flamer squad will cost about 25 points less then the standard blade storming avenger squad.

Jetbikes are also good. 3 + a cannon and an embolden warlcok with a spear makes an excellent objective grabbing squad, that can also harass enemy armor, and finish off infantry squads with twin link fire. They aren't as beat stick as storm guardians or avengers, but they are by no means bad units.