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Hello,

Sat here this afternoon considering the logistics involved in running a 30K campaign. Mainly involving the Seige of the Emperors Palace and the Conflict that takes place onboard the Vengeful Spirit.

I have seen a few things here and there and I imagine using standard 40k rules would work well enough for the game but wanted to throw it open in case some people have played or experienced a 30K game themselves.

I'm currently making an Imperial Fist force and have experimented in converting a few miniatures into Primarchs.

My main issue is that when you do a search for Primarch rules they are always so over the top... I'd like them to be realistic. As an example, do you think Angron should be equal, lesser or superior to a Bloodthirster? My first thoughts were to use many of the Chaos Demon and CSM special Khorne gifts for Angron. Bearing in mind he is not yet a Demon Prince. I would keep his Chainaxe stats exactly the same as Kharns Gorechild as he is actually weilding the sister weapon.

So any advice on Primarchs and previous experiences with 30k would be most appreciated! Ta. vs

Tempus Fugitives are a gaming group in the UK, They made a load of really good rules for all the pre heresy legions and primarchs. Should still be on there website to download. It may be that you think the primarchs are still overpowered. (They had cool stuff like 1+ armour saves!). They used it for a massive heresy campaign so it could be just what your looking for. http://ageoftheemperor.co.uk/

I have no idea about Angron, but how about Mortarion:

Points: 600

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
9 7 5 7 7 5 5 10 2+

Unit Composition: 1(Unique)

War Gear: Primarch armor, Manreaper, Mark of Nurgle, personal icon

Special rules: Primarch, fearless, decay

Primarch: Mortarion has the special rules feel no pain (on 3+), reegenerate (on 4+)

Manreaper: Mortarion gets an additional D6 attacks and wounds on a 2+.

Decay: Each turn all enemie modells in 6 inch around Mortarion suffer a strenght 3 hit.

Necanor wrote:I have no idea about Angron, but how about Mortarion:

Points: 600

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
9 7 5 7 7 5 5 10 2+

Unit Composition: 1(Unique)

War Gear: Primarch armor, Manreaper, Mark of Nurgle, personal icon

Special rules: Primarch, fearless, decay

Primarch: Mortarion has the special rules feel no pain (on 3+), reegenerate (on 4+)

Manreaper: Mortarion gets an additional D6 attacks and wounds on a 2+.

Decay: Each turn all enemie modells in 6 inch around Mortarion suffer a strenght 3 hit.

Thats more like it, not too over powered and not too many speciail powers... pretty good stuff!

Thanks!

Does Manreaper ignore armour saves?

I say go with what Kapitan Montag suggested.

The Tempus Fugitive Rules have got to be the greatest custom ruleset I've ever seen for WH40k and really have everything in them. They've even got rules limiting the Space Marines back to 30k Technology, and they don't JUST have the Primarchs, they have every single mentioned hero of the times, and more than that. Plus custom vehicles, and the Adeptus Custodes, and Sisters of Silence.

I think that these are good rules for Peturabo
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 4 4 4 5 3 10 2+
Equipment: Forgebreaker, Iron justice, Frag, krag, Melta.

Forgebreaker: Master crafted thunder hammer.

Iron justice: Master crafted special Combi Bolter plasma, melta, flamer, grenade launcher


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think that these are good rules for Peturabo
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 4 4 4 5 3 10 2+
Equipment: Forgebreaker, Iron justice, Frag, krag, Melta.

Forgebreaker: Master crafted thunder hammer.

Iron justice: Master crafted special Combi Bolter plasma, melta, flamer, grenade launcher

Range Str Ap Type
24 5 4 Rapid Fire

Special rules: Fortifications, Seige expert, Fearless, enternal warrior.

fortifications: You pay deploy D3+1 wall, razorwire, hill, Minefield sections anywhere in your deployment or no mans land.

Seige Expert: You don't have to take diffucult terrain tests and can re-roll enemys passed cover saves.

Sorry about the other one

bronzemonkey wrote:I think that these are good rules for Peturabo
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 4 4 4 5 3 10 2+
Equipment: Forgebreaker, Iron justice, Frag, krag, Melta.

Forgebreaker: Master crafted thunder hammer.

Iron justice: Master crafted special Combi Bolter plasma, melta, flamer, grenade launcher


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think that these are good rules for Peturabo
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 4 4 4 5 3 10 2+
Equipment: Forgebreaker, Iron justice, Frag, krag, Melta.

Forgebreaker: Master crafted thunder hammer.

Iron justice: Master crafted special Combi Bolter plasma, melta, flamer, grenade launcher

Range Str Ap Type
24 5 4 Rapid Fire

Special rules: Fortifications, Seige expert, Fearless, enternal warrior.

fortifications: You pay deploy D3+1 wall, razorwire, hill, Minefield sections anywhere in your deployment or no mans land.

Seige Expert: You don't have to take diffucult terrain tests and can re-roll enemys passed cover saves.

Sorry about the other one

Sorry to say, but this is by far too bad of a profile for a half god.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TherVadam wrote:Does Manreaper ignore armour saves?

Yes it does.

bronzemonkey wrote:I think that these are good rules for Peturabo
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 4 4 4 5 3 10 2+
Equipment: Forgebreaker, Iron justice, Frag, krag, Melta.

Forgebreaker: Master crafted thunder hammer.

Iron justice: Master crafted special Combi Bolter plasma, melta, flamer, grenade launcher


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think that these are good rules for Peturabo
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 4 4 4 5 3 10 2+
Equipment: Forgebreaker, Iron justice, Frag, krag, Melta.

Forgebreaker: Master crafted thunder hammer.

Iron justice: Master crafted special Combi Bolter plasma, melta, flamer, grenade launcher

Range Str Ap Type
24 5 4 Rapid Fire

Special rules: Fortifications, Seige expert, Fearless, enternal warrior.

fortifications: You pay deploy D3+1 wall, razorwire, hill, Minefield sections anywhere in your deployment or no mans land.

Seige Expert: You don't have to take diffucult terrain tests and can re-roll enemys passed cover saves.

Sorry about the other one

The profile needs upping and Iron Justice should only have one combi-weapon.

You need special rules for the other factions, too (insofar as the other factions exist at this time-- Orks, for example, and Eldar). Something that really lets them keep up with the primarchs.

I wouldn't go too crazy there though, as not much was keeping up with the Primarchs back in the day.

there seems to be several schools of thought on the primarchs, ranging from "they are still only human" which is odd since that contradicts the fluff, this line of thought leads to the
WS BS S T
5 4 4 4
primarch

then you have the OMFG PRimarzzz school of thought, which leads to the
WS BS etc.
10 10
primarch

now i will be making my take of the primarchs in the middle ground between the two, useing existing fluff on the primarchs, useing USR's where i can

Lorgar

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 6 6 6 5 5 4 10 3+/ 4++
Wargear: Crozius arcanum, Bolter (counts as pistol in CC)
Special rules: Golden Warrior: once per game Lorgar may increase his WS S T and A to 7, for that game turn.
Bearer of the word: all Freindly models mays use his ld for morale and pinning checks
Fearless.


Lion El'Jonson
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
8 6 6 6 5 6 5 10 2+/4++
Wargear: The lion sword: +2 Strength, master crafted power weapon, Bolter (CC weapon)
Special rules: Master strategist: El'jonson may redeploy any unit before the game starts, but after scouts, infiltraters etc.
Untrusting: Jonson may never join another unit

Corax
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
7 6 6 6 5 7 5 10 3+/4++
Wargear:Angel wing jetpack: moves as jump infantry, confers hit and run to corax
Master crafted lightning claws (cant believe i forgot this lol)
Heavy Bolter (assault 3)
Special rules: Monstrous creature
Unseen, Unheard: Corax can infilttrate, even if the mission does not allow it. Idependent character
The Raven Guard: assault marines as troops, all infantry may fleet.

Angron
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
7 4 7 6 5 5 6 10 4+/4++
wargear: Gorefather: Angron always hits on an unmodified 2+.
Bolter(CC weapon)
Special rules: montrous creature
Rage USR
Bezerk charge: angron has +2 attacks on the charge.

Peturabo
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 8 5 6 4 5 4 10 2+/3++
Wargear:Master crafted thunder hammer
Heavy bolter: Assault 3
Special rules: Siege master: Any building or ruin occupied by the iron warriors confers +1 to cover save, additionally any builing or ruin occupied by
the enemy confers -1 to cover save.
The Guns never tire: Peturabo may confer his BS to any model with 6", this can be Vehicles, infantry etc. (I.E a vindicator fires useing his BS, rolls a scatter and a double 4, minus the 8 for Peturabo's BS!)

I will do maore later: also i forgot to add all primarchs have ATSKNF, unless otherwise stated

Nice to see a 'shout out' to "RAVEN'S FLIGHT" in Corax's stats!

It might be nice to try and work his in there too, somehow.

he has got the invisibity in there, i just rolled it ito hit and run,
Corax can liturally leave combat at will, since its a iniative test.

I'd go with it making him harder to hit, at least for ranged attacks.

Stealth seems to be an obvious USR for him.

Jack

problem with stealth is, he doesnt need it, if you sit corax in cover, then you are useing him wrong, he is an agressive character.

any thought on the others?

Infiltrate perhaps? I am curious to the Monsterous creature USR too! (on Corax)

part 2

Fulgrim

WS BS S T W I A LD sv
9 5 5 6 5 8 4 10 3+/4++
Wargear: Flaming sword: Master crafted power weapon, causes D3 wounds for any unsaved wound (I.E 1 wound = 1D3, not 2 wounds = 2D3)
Bollter (CC weapon)
Special rules: The perfect warrior: Fulgrim is almost the perfect warrior, as such he may re-roll all missed to hit rolls (shooting and CC) this extends to any unit he leads, but not to any other primarch that is in the same sqaud (just in case lol)
Pride: Fulgrim will never back down from a fight, as such is his unit flees he must stay and will be subject to the "no retreat" USR.

Leman Russ
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 6 7 7 5 6 6 10 3+/4++
Wargear: Blade of morkai (see logan grimnar)
Bolter (CC weapon)
Special rules: Bezerker: once per game Russ may go into a berzerk rage, he and his unit gains +D6 attacks (max10)
Not just a beast: Russ crude exterior belies a shrewd tactition, he may give D6 infantry units the following USR
Hit and run, Scout, tank hunter.

Rogal Dorn
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 6 6 7 6 5 4 10 2+/4++
Wargear: Hammer of Dorn: Dual master crafted thunder hammers
Special Rules: Master of defence: Dorn may set up 2D6 fortifications from the following
Barb wire
Tank traps
Mine fields (max 4)
Reinforce building (max 4)
And c onfers the Stubborn USR to his army (Imperial fists only)

Alpharius
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
5 5 6 6 4 5 3 10 3+
Omegon
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
5 5 6 6 4 5 3 10 3+
Wargear: both have power weapons and bolters (CC weapon)
Special rules: We are Legion: Any unit thats A and O join counts as having the retinue special rule (so they cannot be targeted in CC as a IC, etc. )
We were never here: A and O do not setup normally, they are always held in reserve, the owning player can choose to deploy them at the begining of any of his turns, when they arive replace any member of a chosen unit (Alpha legion only) with A or O, they may fight, assault and shoot the turn they arrive.
Masters of infiltration: Any Freindly Alpha legion army has the infiiltrate USR


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im going by fluff and Corax in the fluff is most defo a montrous creature, he tears a sponson off a pred in Ravens Flight, and didnt i add infiltrate?.. seems not

Cool im going to make a little codex with all these cool rules because im well... bored. Please say if you want me to send you the finished version

which rules lol?
if its my ones, go ahead but i still got more to go


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw my primarchs are all loyal versions, i will add the chaos ones later

WAIT you forgot Jaghatai Khan


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its both my and yours if thats ok?

lol i havent forgot KKKKHHHHHHAAAAANNNN!!!!
i will add more in a bit, you see there is actually a group of 13 of us discussing the primarchs at the mo, i got my gaming group round

Lose the max 10 attacks on Leman Russ, if he wants more, he can have more!! Other than that they all seem great, can't wait for the others.

Once again I am gonna pimp my Primarch thread, because let's face it, I am awesome.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/316620.page

Ferrus manus
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 6 6 7 5 5 4 10 2+/3++
Wargear: Master Crafted thunder hammer
Master crafted Inferno pistol (Range 12", always counts as at half range for melta)
Special rules: The Gorgan: Ferrus manus is renouned for his toughness, he may never lose more than 1 wound due to an attack (so no force weapon of any kind etc.)
Living metal hands: Ferus may forgo useing his thunder hammer and instead use his living metal hands, they strike at iniative order and act as a power weapon that ignore invunerable saves.

Vulkan
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 6 6 6 4 5 4 10 2+/3++
Wargear: Master crafted Relic blade with built in Incinerator (the GK one)
Special Rules: As per Vulkan hestan (MC thunder hammer etc.)
Tbh i am not sure with this one, as there is not alot of information to go on at the moment.

KKKKHHHHAAAANNNN!!!
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
7 5 6 6(7) 4 7 5 10 3+
Wargear: Space marine bike with twin linked bolters (with the special round from the sternguard) assault 4 (replaces the ammount of shot allowed by special ammunition)
Master crafted Hunting lance (+2 str, +2 Iniative on charge, power weapon, may use in first turn of any assault)
The Great hunt: Bikes as troops choice, tac sqauds in rhinos may outflank OR scout, all bike have skilled rider (including khan)

Mortarion
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 5 6 7 6 5 4 10 3+/4++
Wargear: Manreaper: +d6 attacks, power weapon
Special rules: Mortarion is only wounded on a 6 by weapons that are poisoned or weapons that wound on a set value (like agonisors etc.)
Mortarion may take up to 9 troop choices, Tac sqauds are T5 and cost 18pts per model

The Pimp Daddy himself... Roboute Gulliman
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 6 6 6 5 5 4 10 3+/4++
Wargear: Roboute may take any of the options given to a chapter master.
special rules: Titanic might
Warrior king of ultramar: Any model in a frienly army may choose to pass or fail any morale or pinning check they are required to make.
The largest legion: Any tactical sqaud may purchase "without number" for +50 pts


Konrad Curze
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 6 6 6 4 6 5 9 3+/4++
Wargear: Tarot cards( curze uses these to devine possible futures, this allows him to re-roll a single invunerable save or armour save per turn)
Master cafted lightning claws
Special rules:
Fear incarnate: In order to charge curze a leadership check is needed (LS not morale, so fearless models need to still check) in combat with curze all enemy models are - 1 ld in addition to any other modifiers
Darkness calls: Any wargear item that allows bonus's to night fighting no longer work while curze in on the field (spotlights, blacksun filters etc.)
If the player chooses the first or last turn of the game is under the night fight mission rule.
Hit and run


Magnus the Red
~WS BS S T W I A LD SV
5 8 7 7 5 6 4 10 3++
Wargear: Force weapon (MC)
Special rules: Master sorceror: Magnus knows all the powers from the space marine AND chaos space marine codex, he may use up to 3 powers a turn
these may be the same power.
Magnus may confer his BS to ANY model with the psyker rules on the table.
Magnus may nulify Enemy psychic powers on a 2+, however if he fails this he takes an imediate wound, with no saves of any kind allowed, he is immunce to perils.


Thats all for now, Next I shal be doing the greatest primarchs... Sanguinius and Horus
please give feedback. i shall also post point costs after a couple of games with these guys.

I'd say Ferrus Manus using his hands would make him fight as if he were a monstrous creature.

so no living metal? or monstrous creature aswell?

I just don't see anything in the fluff that makes ignore invul realistic; the Monstrous Creature represents his hand's ability ignores armor saves, and will shred tanks - this fits with him being able to forge the strongest materials into weapons with his bare hands and rip through space marine armor with ease.