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This is my own idea for Righteous Zeal, since I've always hated how it can be so a) ineffective and b) annoying.


Instead I think Righteous Zeal should be an armywide trait. Which grows cumulatively with each turn.

Turn 1: No effect.

Turn 2: Preferred Enemy. All assault units gain preferred enemy.

Turn 3: Feel No Pain. All units in the army are so fiilled with battle lust they ignore wounds against normal armour saves (following normal rules for FnP)

Turn 4: Battle Frenzy. (Fleet & Zeal) Not even chaplains can now prevent their battle brothers from falling on the nearest enemy unit. All units can assault after running but MUST assault the enemy unit nearest to them.

Turn 5: No further effects


Would make fighting Black Templars a very interesting proposition. Do you drag out a game so you can take advantage of Battle Frenzy and send the Templars against units they can't win against? Or do you try to shut them down early so they don't get Feel No Pain?

And for Templars the onus is on the army getting everything done by turn 4, or being in a position to mitigate the effects of Battle Frenzy...

If you replace righteous zeal with this, templar units would never go anywhere, ever.

Make this in addition, and you've created a strong fourth edition codex, move all the turns down one ratchet(so preferred enemy on turn one) and you've made a somewhat viable fifth edition, allow the squads to take as many wolf guard equivalent battle brothers and I think we'd finally get a footslogging army who could battle with mech and win(Or give them one special weapon per five men or something, seriously one power fist per twenty guys is lame)

Why not have this be similiar to the rules for the DE codex to be released, where its effects grow over time compared to how many units they've killed.

Instead, perhaps for Black Templars it could be on how many of them have died, perhaps individually for each squad?

imho however, getting Preferred Enemy on turn 2 is kinda overpowered..

And for this to be caused, perhaps it has to be the vow taken for the army?

Could call it Holy Crusade or something basic along those lines.

To make this work, you'd probably want to keep some form of rapid movement option available for the BT, and you'd probably want to re-do the vows so they don't conflict.

Something like this:

Zeal:
On 1 Casualty: The unit gains Fleet.
On 3 Casualties: The unit gains Preferred Enemy.
On 5 Casualties: The unit gains Feel No Pain.
On 10 Casualties: The unit always runs 6".

Vows:
AAC: Always hit on 3+ (like it was in 4th)
ATW: Every HQ selection counts as having an unlimited range Psychic Hood. (Maybe OP, but I'm just thinking "aloud").
UTH: -1 to all Cover Saves, but +1 to all Invul Saves and FNP rolls (to a maximum of 3+ in both instances).
SNTU: Furious Charge.

In addition to this, you would have to adjust the nature of the BT non-mech units to give an incentive to be non-mech, and possibly increase the cost of all the Rhino-chassis vehicles (but not Land Raiders, as those are a BT specialty) in order to balance it out.

Xca|iber wrote:To make this work, you'd probably want to keep some form of rapid movement option available for the BT, and you'd probably want to re-do the vows so they don't conflict.

Something like this:

Zeal:
On 1 Casualty: The unit gains Fleet.
On 3 Casualties: The unit gains Preferred Enemy.
On 5 Casualties: The unit gains Feel No Pain.
On 10 Casualties: The unit always runs 6".

Vows:
AAC: Always hit on 3+ (like it was in 4th)
ATW: Every HQ selection counts as having an unlimited range Psychic Hood. (Maybe OP, but I'm just thinking "aloud").
UTH: -1 to all Cover Saves, but +1 to all Invul Saves and FNP rolls (to a maximum of 3+ in both instances).
SNTU: Furious Charge.

In addition to this, you would have to adjust the nature of the BT non-mech units to give an incentive to be non-mech, and possibly increase the cost of all the Rhino-chassis vehicles (but not Land Raiders, as those are a BT specialty) in order to balance it out.

When I started reading your post, I was almost ready to puke. Then I read it again, more carefully, and came to the conclusion that you are my God. At first I thought that UTH would be completely useless, but then I realized that it'd just mean that scouts would die faster, giving your marines an improved FNP really fast. Seriously, I love this idea. With the change to AAC, you even make the Templars Chaplains extremely nasty again. Yum, Chaplains!

Xca|iber wrote:To make this work, you'd probably want to keep some form of rapid movement option available for the BT, and you'd probably want to re-do the vows so they don't conflict.

Something like this:

Zeal:
On 1 Casualty: The unit gains Fleet.
On 3 Casualties: The unit gains Preferred Enemy.
On 5 Casualties: The unit gains Feel No Pain.
On 10 Casualties: The unit always runs 6".

While I like the idea, I'd hate to play against this.
It would be annoying to track how many models each squad had lost during the course of the game; especially with the big range in squad sizes available to Black Templar.
I think Zeal would work better by just counting (non vehicle) units lost. Something like:

2 units lot, army wide fleet
3 units lost, army wide preferred enemy.
4 units lost, army wide feel no pain.
5 units lost, army wide, always run.

So, as the army gets more torn up, the survivors are filled with a righteous zeal.

As for general improvements, if a transport isn't taken, I'd give the option for another special weapon, and another power weapon/lightningclaw/power fist. Black Templar squads just don't hit hard enough.


I think it would add an interesting dynamic into an infantry based army.

-Matt

This is interesting in that players would start making suicide units so that upon death their entire army would improve. Make the smallest point unit possible, and then run it forward to get slaughtered...now my whole army is better!

Also, please, for the love of the Emperor, fix the Sword Brethren! They're pretty fething disappointing right now, especially compared to things like Sanguinary Guards (not to mention Wolf Guards...).

Shenra wrote:This is interesting in that players would start making suicide units so that upon death their entire army would improve. Make the smallest point unit possible, and then run it forward to get slaughtered...now my whole army is better!

That's why I mentioned the idea of it counting for each individual squad... to balance it...

They need more special/heavy weapons per squad to gain an advantage over the mechbound squad, and they also need a way to advance quickly, otherwise you can give them almost every USR and they'll still never make it. Albeit after losing ten neophytes, giving the squad a 4++ and FnP would make them rock solid, especially with fleet.

Furious charge is nice but the squads need a non-IC upgrade that has two attacks base and can take powerfists. Like before, they don't hit nearly as hard as they need to this edition.

I can see Crusader squads being allowed to take more power weapons dependning on unit size next edition.

I'm also liking some of these new vows as well. I could live with losing preferred enemy if we gained 3+ to hit in close combat again.

New zeal sounds good, but i'm worried it may be over powered, as it basically means Neophytes = power tokens if you get what I mean?

Look at new Dark Eldar "Power through Pain" rules if you think my idea is overpowered.

Change of idea for it:


Turn 1: No effect

Turn 2: Feel No Pain

Turn 3: Preferred Enemy

Turn 4: Zeal Unleashed

Zeal Unleashed: All Neophytes get to hit on 3+. All initiates get to hit D6 times.

Turn 5: No further effects.

Hey don't get me wrong, i'd love to see our guys become awsome and uber. But I just don't honestly see it happening.

Right now we are the best MEQ close combat army, but I think we are in serious danger of losing that title come next edition.